fighters with higher finishing pct%

[guesswhoseback]

there was a comment on dana white contender series post where someone said fighters with a higher finishing percentage are usually better fighters and i completley disagree

Schevenko vs. Grasso 7-2 in favor of fighters with a lower finish %
Adesyana vs. strickland 6-4 in favor of fighters with a lower finish %
Gane Vs. Spivak 8-3 in favor of fighters with a lower finish%

I know its only 3 events but like i stated on the Dana white contender series post you shouldnt think oh fighter a has a 80% finish rate while fighter B has a 40% fighter A will most likely win because its actucally the complete opposite

 

[EndlessCritic]

It's a very difficult thing to measure because one of the main predictor of a finish is whether the fight is a mismatch.

The tougher your strength of schedule, the less finishes you're going to have than if your record is heavily padded.

 

[sonhow]

Its not just about if you finish. Its more about who you finish. Of course we all like finishes but one would think for a succesful fighter getting a win is the top priority and getting the finish is secondary.
On the other hand finish tells us if the fighter is that much better than the competition. But the level of competion is a whole different story.

 

[guesswhoseback]

Its not just about if you finish. Its more about who you finish. Of course we all like finishes but one would think for a succesful fighter getting a win is the top priority and getting the finish is secondary.
On the other hand finish tells us if the fighter is that much better than the competition. But the level of competion is a whole different story.

See once again I completely disagree I think a dominant 5 rd dec proves a lot more then a 15 sec ko. Jorge masdival vs Ben askren rematch or GSP vs Jon Fitch rematch which loser has a better chance at a win?

 

[guesswhoseback]

Its not just about if you finish. Its more about who you finish. Of course we all like finishes but one would think for a succesful fighter getting a win is the top priority and getting the finish is secondary.
On the other hand finish tells us if the fighter is that much better than the competition. But the level of competion is a whole different story.

GSP beat koscheck by dec
Paulo thiago finished koscheck



GSP beat Hardy by dec
Carlos condit finished Hardy

GSP beat Jake shields by dec
Jake ellenberger finished Jake shields

 

[sonhow]

See once again I completely disagree I think a dominant 5 rd dec proves a lot more then a 15 sec ko. Jorge masdival vs Ben askren rematch or GSP vs Jon Fitch rematch which loser has a better chance at a win?

Its not everything but its something. A nuance. People have critiqued GSP for lack of finishing for most of his prime years. I was never one of those people. In the end the ufc system is build around special individuals and GSP was one of those individuals. Someone would say he was popular despite not finishing most of his opponents. Ufc system is build around favoring finishers or killers. You need to be special to evade this. Look at Danny Sabatello. A really good fighter. Not a finisher. No place in the ufc.
How does this impact the actual fights? The mind. You have to be impressive and finishing opponent is on way to show you are what people want to see. When your record has finishes its a way to show people that this person is someone to pay attention to.

Id say finishing isnt perhaps measure of fighting skill but its one way to make yourself visible.

 

[guesswhoseback]

Its not everything but its something. A nuance. People have critiqued GSP for lack of finishing for most of his prime years. I was never one of those people. In the end the ufc system is build around special individuals and GSP was one of those individuals. Someone would say he was popular despite not finishing most of his opponents. Ufc system is build around favoring finishers or killers. You need to be special to evade this. Look at Danny Sabatello. A really good fighter. Not a finisher. No place in the ufc.
How does this impact the actual fights? The mind. You have to be impressive and finishing opponent is on way to show you are what people want to see. When your record has finishes its a way to show people that this person is someone to pay attention to.

Id say finishing isnt perhaps measure of fighting skill but its one way to make yourself visible.

I agree to a point but when betting a fight I never once looked at a fighter and I'm like wow he has a 90 percent finish percentage and this guy only has 40 im gonna bet on the opposite if anything it would be the other way around because fighters with a lower finish percentage wins a fight more often then not

 

[sonhow]

I agree to a point but when betting a fight I never once looked at a fighter and he like wow this fighter has a 90 percent win percentage and this guy only has 40 im gonna bet on the opposite if anything it would be the other way around because fighters with a lower finish percentage wins a fight more often then not

Yes purely when looking at fight I never bet on "the better finisher" just because he is a better finisher. Its one of the last things i pay attention to.
Like you said GSP, Floyd in boxing etc. These guys didn't need to finish because they didn't need to prove a point to anyone. They were constant winners fighting the best guys in the division.
So purely on fight aspect without outside interfering factors I absolutely 100% agree with you. Finishing a fight doesn't make the "better" fighter. Winning does.

 

[rev0lver]

there was a comment on dana white contender series post where someone said fighters with a higher finishing percentage are usually better fighters and i completley disagree

I didn't say that, and I don't know why you made a thread insinuating that. I simply said it's impressive that a 20 year old flyweight was 7-0 on finishes.

I mentioned it as a factor along with other things. When there are two fighters who have fought a similar quality of competition, I think it's a better sign when one blows through the competition better than the other. Especially telling when dealing with lower-level regional comp. When those factors align, I do think the better finisher tends to end up the better fighter. There's some exceptions though, i.e. a grindy wrestler who favors control over anything else.

At higher levels and when dealing with varying quality of opponents, it doesn't necessarily mean much. And there's plenty of fighters who have blown through 15 cans who end up mediocre.

 

[Oblivian]

I'd say in the lower level, the one getting finishes is probably the better fighter.

 

[guesswhoseback]

I didn't say that, and I don't know why you made a thread insinuating that. I simply said it's impressive that a 20 year old flyweight was 7-0 on finishes.

I mentioned it as a factor along with other things. When there are two fighters who have fought a similar quality of competition, I think it's a better sign when one blows through the competition better than the other. Especially telling when dealing with lower-level regional comp. When those factors align, I do think the better finisher tends to end up the better fighter. There's some exceptions though, i.e. a grindy wrestler who favors control over anything else.

At higher levels and when dealing with varying quality of opponents, it doesn't necessarily mean much. And there's plenty of fighters who have blown through 15 cans who end up mediocre.

I never said you said that

 

[guesswhoseback]

I'd say in the lower level, the one getting finishes is probably the better fighter.

Possibly yes not exactly sure but once you reach the higher levels such as the UFC I would say it's the complete opposite

 

[mkess101]

Possibly yes not exactly sure but once you reach the higher levels such as the UFC I would say it's the complete opposite

I mean maybe this is a different way of saying the same thing, but yeah the finish % itself isn't what's making those fighters special. It's just that as fighters progress toward the top, they face better and better competition. So when you get to the best of the best like GSP, Jones, etc those guys are literally only fighting other guys in the top 5 in the world. Logic says those other top 5 guys are also pretty damn good AND are guys who generally don't fold easily or mentally break, quit, etc. So they're just harder guys to finish.

Think about Anderson Silva. Start with his first UFC fight with Leben, then he won the belt from Franklin in his next fight. He then won his next 14 consecutive fights. So a 16 fight win streak, and he finished 14 of those wins. We don't somehow think he's worse because he finished most of those wins, right? We think it's MORE impressive, because he was champ and was fighting highly ranked guys the whole time. A guy blasting through regional bums we probably aren't super impressed with much more than say a wrestler who dominates those same bums for 15 minutes with wrestling. But a guy who's putting away other top guys? Different story.

 

[guesswhoseback]

I mean maybe this is a different way of saying the same thing, but yeah the finish % itself isn't what's making those fighters special. It's just that as fighters progress toward the top, they face better and better competition. So when you get to the best of the best like GSP, Jones, etc those guys are literally only fighting other guys in the top 5 in the world. Logic says those other top 5 guys are also pretty damn good AND are guys who generally don't fold easily or mentally break, quit, etc. So they're just harder guys to finish.

Think about Anderson Silva. Start with his first UFC fight with Leben, then he won the belt from Franklin in his next fight. He then won his next 14 consecutive fights. So a 16 fight win streak, and he finished 14 of those wins. We don't somehow think he's worse because he finished most of those wins, right? We think it's MORE impressive, because he was champ and was fighting highly ranked guys the whole time. A guy blasting through regional bums we probably aren't super impressed with much more than say a wrestler who dominates those same bums for 15 minutes with wrestling. But a guy who's putting away other top guys? Different story.

Ya I guess I don't remember who said it but someone on the Dana white page said I'm betting this fighter because he finishes more then the other fighter which literally makes 0 sense because Fighters who have a lower finishing rate wins more often then not

 

[mkess101]

Ya I guess I don't remember who said it but someone on the Dana white page said I'm betting this fighter because he finishes more then the other fighter which literally makes 0 sense because Fighters who have a lower finishing rate wins more often then not

Yeah I mean it completely depends. A one punch KO finish is way different than beating a guy down over 7-8 minutes until he folds and breaks. I think against lesser competition, a truly talented fighter should be finishing most of them. But a high finish rate can also mean that that fighter has only ever faced bums, which I think is sort of the point you're trying to make? If you're ONLY betting based on finish rate and have no idea what the competition level is, that's a mistake. Because that finish rate often says more about who the person has faced than how good they actually are.

 

[rev0lver]

Ya I guess I don't remember who said it but someone on the Dana white page said I'm betting this fighter because he finishes more then the other fighter which literally makes 0 sense because Fighters who have a lower finishing rate wins more often then not

I was the only one who said something like that and you said in this thread that it wasn't me lol. Even though it was a point among other factors that made me lean toward that fighter.

Btw the better finisher there just won.

 

[Oblivian]

I was the only one who said something like that and you said in this thread that it wasn't me lol. Even though it was a point among other factors that made me lean toward that fighter.

Btw the better finisher there just won.

Agreed. His finishing ability via pressure and power was also clearly what swung the fight in his favor as well. It was an obvious factor in that fight as technically they weren't far apart.

 

[guesswhoseback]

8-3 in favor of fighters with a higher dec rate for the gamrot/fiziev card

 

[Dooze]

Pretty interesting - are those with the higher decision rate generally the favourite more often as well?

Not a huge sample size but if so and you're wanting to bet the underdogs in some of those fights going forward then a bet on the underdog NSC could be a decent attempt at covering yourself with those punts.

 

[guesswhoseback]

Pretty interesting - are those with the higher decision rate generally the favourite more often as well?


Not a huge sample size but if so and you're wanting to bet the underdogs in some of those fights going forward then a bet on the underdog NSC could be a decent attempt at covering yourself with those punts.

I'm not really sure about the favorites and underdog part sorry only reason I made this post is because someone posted something along the lines of fighters with a highe finishing rate wins more often then not and I completely disagreed with no actual facts. But the last 4 events each event favored the fighter with the higher dec rate perct. This is only UFC idk about the b leagues like pfl or bellator or lfa or any other crap like that