Frank Shamrock's Hypothetical Run. How Far Would He Go?

[Dr. Rose]

I'd guess Frank would of beaten all of them except Randy, and possibly Wand and Vlady.

I think he'd probably lose to Chuck and maybe Belfort...depends if this was when his sister was murdered or not (I can't recall).

Around that time, early 2004. If he fights Chuck in 2000, he wins easily. That is the Chuck who lost to Jeremy Horn. It wasn't until Randleman in mid-2001 that Chuck got his mojo working.

 

[NoSmilez]

I think he would have done well until he got to Sak or Wanderlei.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I dont favour Frank vs those guys, nor vs a better conditioned Tito in a rematch.
I give him a better chance vs Tanner and Kondo who are closer to his size although still tough match ups for Frank. Kondo actually KOed him in Pancrase.

Not even Frank believes he could get past those LHWs tbh
In this interview where he entertains a come back this is what he says:

Catching Up With Frank Shamrock

www.onzuka.com

I will fight at 185lbs. The reason is that I weigh 192lbs, so I just won't eat breakfast and eat a light dinner and be there.
Who am I going to fight? Dave Menne? I think that Dave is super tough, but he isn't going to stand a chance with me. So what do I do?

...I do favour him to beat Menne, not that much Bustamante.

The biggest one around the turn of the century would have been Frank vs Sakuraba. Dream fight. I favour Sakuraba by superior ground control

My thoughts exactly. Comparing Frank to elite LHWs like Matyushenko and Couture isn't fair because Frank was a WW who juiced up to fight at LHW without cutting much weight. I think he would have taken Wand who was about the same size.

The most interesting scenario would have been Frank fighting at 185 and taking on Menne, Bustamante, Lindland, et al for the UFC MW strap. And of course Hendo and Sakuraba over in Japan where the competition is a little easier.

 

[savemgs]

I'd guess Frank would of beaten all of them except Randy, and possibly Wand and Vlady.

I think he'd probably lose to Chuck and maybe Belfort...depends if this was when his sister was murdered or not (I can't recall).

Yeah people forget how much Belfort's sister's murder affected him it took him years and years to recover from that.

 

[savemgs]

Yuki already waxed that ass!

I don't believe that's a fair assessment, particularly considering the pro-wrestling-like rule set that Pancrase had. Don't get me wrong; I still think it's a somewhat valid argument, but Shamrock's approach and style were very different in the UFC.

 

[TheTickG]

In the not-so-distant year of 1999, just before the new millennium dawned, Frank Shamrock stood at the pinnacle of his MMA career. Unfortunately, his legacy has somewhat faded from UFC history, largely due to Dana White's disdain and the lack of awareness among newer fans. However, let's delve into a hypothetical scenario where Frank, instead of retiring, continues his journey post his victory over Tito Ortiz.
Imagine Frank Shamrock taking on the next seven opponents that Tito faced after their encounter. How would he fare in this gauntlet? Let's discuss.
But before we dive into the matchups, it's crucial to address a potential opponent in this alternate timeline - the Iceman, Chuck Liddell and Vitor Belfort While it's likely that Frank would have faced them had he continued competing, they are not included in this list. The reason being, Tito Ortiz consistently avoided facing Chuck for years, and the
Belfort matchup never materialized at the time. If you'd like to add a bonus round considering Liddell and Belfort, feel free to do so.
Here's the lineup of potential opponents for Frank Shamrock.
Note during the specified time frame, Frank would be around 27 to 30 years old.

• Wanderlei Silva
• Yuki Kondo
• Evan Tanner
• Elvis Sinosic
• Vladimir Matyushenko
• Ken Shamrock
• Randy Couture

I honestly believe that Frank's most formidable opponents on this list are Matyushenko and Couture, particularly from a martial arts perspective. Both Frank and his adopted brother Ken have historically struggled against opponents who can match or exceed them in wrestling prowess. Despite Ken's age and declining physical condition, the psychological aspect is evident. This notion is supported by evidence from the 'Bound by Blood' documentary, where Ken's influence still evidently looms large over Frank. Decades later, Ken's ability to emotionally impact Frank is clear, as he managed to reduce him to tears. Not passing judgment on either individual; both brothers clearly have their own issues. However, Ken seems to have a significant presence in Frank's psyche. That being said, Ken doesn't seem to be affected at all by them when it comes down to competing.

If it goes in the order you stated, I think Tanner wins by early KO due to Shamrock growing fatigued and complacent from previous wins.

Shamrock goes on to have his illustrious commentating career. Tanner goes on to not enter the desert alone.

 

[sonofjay817]

Yuki already waxed that ass!

Frank loved falling dramatically out of the ring.

 

[textwarrior]

In the not-so-distant year of 1999, just before the new millennium dawned, Frank Shamrock stood at the pinnacle of his MMA career. Unfortunately, his legacy has somewhat faded from UFC history, largely due to Dana White's disdain and the lack of awareness among newer fans. However, let's delve into a hypothetical scenario where Frank, instead of retiring, continues his journey post his victory over Tito Ortiz.
Imagine Frank Shamrock taking on the next seven opponents that Tito faced after their encounter. How would he fare in this gauntlet? Let's discuss.
But before we dive into the matchups, it's crucial to address a potential opponent in this alternate timeline - the Iceman, Chuck Liddell and Vitor Belfort While it's likely that Frank would have faced them had he continued competing, they are not included in this list. The reason being, Tito Ortiz consistently avoided facing Chuck for years, and the
Belfort matchup never materialized at the time. If you'd like to add a bonus round considering Liddell and Belfort, feel free to do so.
Here's the lineup of potential opponents for Frank Shamrock.
Note during the specified time frame, Frank would be around 27 to 30 years old.

• Wanderlei Silva
• Yuki Kondo
• Evan Tanner
• Elvis Sinosic
• Vladimir Matyushenko
• Ken Shamrock
• Randy Couture

I honestly believe that Frank's most formidable opponents on this list are Matyushenko and Couture, particularly from a martial arts perspective. Both Frank and his adopted brother Ken have historically struggled against opponents who can match or exceed them in wrestling prowess. Despite Ken's age and declining physical condition, the psychological aspect is evident. This notion is supported by evidence from the 'Bound by Blood' documentary, where Ken's influence still evidently looms large over Frank. Decades later, Ken's ability to emotionally impact Frank is clear, as he managed to reduce him to tears. Not passing judgment on either individual; both brothers clearly have their own issues. However, Ken seems to have a significant presence in Frank's psyche. That being said, Ken doesn't seem to be affected at all by them when it comes down to competing.

Frank was a slick ass fighter for his weight, UFC was hard to gauge at that time by weight divisions. I think frank could have fought lighter, and my opinion about him..he would have been at sakuraba and GSP level...hell he beat Tito ...he was the first real complete well rounded fighter I saw at that time between strikes, take downs, and off his back...I think he was the best I saw at that early time. I would compare him to sakuraba and GSP...would have a hard time comparing him to AS or IA or Alex at mw...I saw him as a small MW or a great WW...I heard him say in todays world he would have never fought at MW...I heard him say that...so I am guessing he was alluding to being more of a WW than a MW...I believe that...the Lions den fighters were juice heads....and Ken Shamrock had a fight at 185 in the early days...Frank was always smaller than ken...I see Frank and compare him to GSP and Sakuraba for that reason and think there were at the same level...if they were born during the same time.

 

[Poirierfan]

One of my most cherished memories was watching Frank beat the shit out of Tito live in Lake Charles Louisiana (I was cage side in the 4 row). I still can't believe I was there, it's like a dream now. Nothing but legends on that card btw and it was only like $25 for practically front row seats. I truly miss those MMA days.

 

[Goutfather]

frank is one of the most underrated fighters ever. i believe he wins all those fights at that point his career, even couture. he had great timing and knew how to capitalize on tiny openings. he was dangerous for the entire fight. but i do think he was nearing the end of his prime. at most probably another 2 years on top.

 

[plataoplombo]

Ken vs Randy would be a good one. Think I'd favor Ken on this one.

 

[TheMaster]

My thoughts exactly. Comparing Frank to elite LHWs like Matyushenko and Couture isn't fair because Frank was a WW who juiced up to fight at LHW without cutting much weight. I think he would have taken Wand who was about the same size.

Please stop this nonsense of 'Frank was a WW'. He was a MW. 185 was his weight class. He was a heavily muscled guy and walked around at 192 Ibs, no way could he have made WW so the 7 pound cut to MW was just right and healthy.
Just because idiots today try to do legalised cheating by cutting 20 pounds from 205 to 185 and dehydrating their brains in the process and risking permanent damage and CTE, doesn't mean its correct.

 

[P4p Islam]

Well you gotta remember weight classes were kind of bonkers then. Frank had to weigh in with pockets full of change just to make weight for the Tito fight. So I don't really think he would've had the same list of opponents if he stayed. I'd say he more than likely would've faced off against guys like Dave Menne and a much earlier version of Baroni.

I think he could have given Bustamente trouble, but guys like Lindland would smother him.

 

[Natural Order]

I don't believe that's a fair assessment, particularly considering the pro-wrestling-like rule set that Pancrase had. Don't get me wrong; I still think it's a somewhat valid argument, but Shamrock's approach and style were very different in the UFC.

Totally, I just like giving Kondo some love where possible as he was a certified badass himself! Probably a different fight under UFC rules for sure.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Please stop this nonsense of 'Frank was a WW'. He was a MW. 185 was his weight class. He was a heavily muscled guy and walked around at 192 Ibs, no way could he have made WW so the 7 pound cut to MW was just right and healthy.
Just because idiots today try to do legalised cheating by cutting 20 pounds from 205 to 185 and dehydrating their brains in the process and risking permanent damage and CTE, doesn't mean its correct.

Matt Hughes cut from around 200 and that was early 00's. GSP started around 180 but ended his WW run in the low 190's same size Frank claims to have walked. So yes Frank was a WW by modern standards but I'm not saying he should have fought at that weight.

As I said, I would have loved to see him at 185 against the guys I mentioned. Frank was my favorite fighter for many years.

 

[storeybuckle]

In the not-so-distant year of 1999, just before the new millennium dawned, Frank Shamrock stood at the pinnacle of his MMA career. Unfortunately, his legacy has somewhat faded from UFC history, largely due to Dana White's disdain and the lack of awareness among newer fans. However, let's delve into a hypothetical scenario where Frank, instead of retiring, continues his journey post his victory over Tito Ortiz.
Imagine Frank Shamrock taking on the next seven opponents that Tito faced after their encounter. How would he fare in this gauntlet? Let's discuss.
But before we dive into the matchups, it's crucial to address a potential opponent in this alternate timeline - the Iceman, Chuck Liddell and Vitor Belfort While it's likely that Frank would have faced them had he continued competing, they are not included in this list. The reason being, Tito Ortiz consistently avoided facing Chuck for years, and the
Belfort matchup never materialized at the time. If you'd like to add a bonus round considering Liddell and Belfort, feel free to do so.
Here's the lineup of potential opponents for Frank Shamrock.
Note during the specified time frame, Frank would be around 27 to 30 years old.

• Wanderlei Silva
• Yuki Kondo
• Evan Tanner
• Elvis Sinosic
• Vladimir Matyushenko
• Ken Shamrock
• Randy Couture

I honestly believe that Frank's most formidable opponents on this list are Matyushenko and Couture, particularly from a martial arts perspective. Both Frank and his adopted brother Ken have historically struggled against opponents who can match or exceed them in wrestling prowess. Despite Ken's age and declining physical condition, the psychological aspect is evident. This notion is supported by evidence from the 'Bound by Blood' documentary, where Ken's influence still evidently looms large over Frank. Decades later, Ken's ability to emotionally impact Frank is clear, as he managed to reduce him to tears. Not passing judgment on either individual; both brothers clearly have their own issues. However, Ken seems to have a significant presence in Frank's psyche. That being said, Ken doesn't seem to be affected at all by them when it comes down to competing.

He would’ve probably gone as far as an abandoned dog tied up in the back of a pick up truck would!

UFC's Frank Shamrock Issues Tearful Apology For Abandoning Dog At Airport

The ex-UFC star says he's heartbroken over the incident.

amp.tmz.com

 

[TheMaster]

Matt Hughes cut from around 200 and that was early 00's. GSP started around 180 but ended his WW run in the low 190's same size Frank claims to have walked. So yes Frank was a WW by modern standards but I'm not saying he should have fought at that weight.

As I said, I would have loved to see him at 185 against the guys I mentioned. Frank was my favorite fighter for many years.

I don't buy it sorry. Hughes was no way 200 Ibs at training camp he was maybe that at walk around weight and out of shape between camps. Frank was far more muscular and a bit taller than Hughes as well there is no way Hughes was bigger. The difference is Frank was always in shape.

Could Frank have fought at WW today with a huge weight cut? Maybe. Should he or would were he still active today? I highly doubt it.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I don't buy it sorry. Hughes was no way 200 Ibs at training camp he was maybe that at walk around weight and out of shape between camps. Frank was far more muscular and a bit taller than Hughes as well there is no way Hughes was bigger. The difference is Frank was always in shape.

Could Frank have fought at WW today with a huge weight cut? Maybe. Should he or would were he still active today? I highly doubt it.

I distinctly remember seeing an interview with Hughes, a trainer or training partner where they said 200 walk around weight between fight camps but I can't find it so I'll back off that claim. But here he says he started fight week with Thiago Alves at 185, after finishing his camp.

"I walked in at 185 and have to make 171, so 14 pounds is what I’ll lose in this last week. But it’s typical. It’s not a big deal."

10 QUESTIONS WITH MATT HUGHES - Muscle & Fitness

Name someone prominent in the talent-heavy UFC welterweight division. Chances are Matt Hughes has dished them a beat down at some point. His mixed martial arts record of 436 includes a 154 record in UFC bouts, two welterweight championship victories and a ridiculous seven title defenses against...

www.muscleandfitness.com

And Alves himself said he walked at 195-200 lbs prior to that fight. He missed weight by 3 lbs but said it was because he rolled his ankle in training and couldn't cut properly.

“I wasn’t able to do anything for three days,” Alves said. “I am a really heavy guy. I walk around at 195-200 (pounds), so if I don’t keep my diet and work out really hard … even the last week before the fight, I (have to) train really hard to (try) to keep my weight low.”

Thiago Alves on feud with Matt Hughes, missing weight, title shot

Defeating longtime UFC welterweight champion Matt Hughes (42-7 MMA, 15-5 UFC) is an impressive notch on any fighter’s belt, but for Thiago Alves (20-4 MMA, 8-2 UFC), this

mmajunkie.usatoday.com

EDIT: Not sure I believe this given it came from Chael and/or Frank long after retirement, but allegedly He said, ‘Chael, I’m actually 173’. And he said, ‘I’ll tell you a secret. The heaviest I ever weighed was 176. When you heard 193, that was added by the broadcast booth.'”

“The Heaviest I Have Ever Been Was 176” – Frank Shamrock Shares ‘Incredible’ ‘Secret’ With Chael Sonnen More Than a Decade After His Illustrious Career

UFC legend Frank Shamrock dispels Chael Sonnen's long-held misconception of his heaviest weight react during his fighting days.

www.essentiallysports.com

 

[BigSexy444]

Frank vs Conor is a dream match.

 

[Lucas1980]

One of my most cherished memories was watching Frank beat the shit out of Tito live in Lake Charles Louisiana (I was cage side in the 4 row). I still can't believe I was there, it's like a dream now. Nothing but legends on that card btw and it was only like $25 for practically front row seats. I truly miss those MMA days.

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That's awesome and a great card indeed. It was cool to see Lewis get a win as well. I was always a fan of John Lewis but he just couldn't put it together. Good shit man.