GIFS: Suga Sean O'Malley's win against Yan

[Eiger]

They aren't deemed irrelevant, they're just scored secondary to damage.

There was minimal damage inflicted by either fighter in round 1, though I do believe the body kicks delivered by Yan were the hardest, cleanest landing strikes in the round, so the former is moot.

No, they're not considered. I think this misunderstanding is what leads to these arguments



First criteria: Effective Striking Grappling
2nd order criteria: Aggression
3rd order criteria: Cage Control

#'s 2 & 3 go out the window if one fighter is deemed to have had an advantage in the effective striking and grappling. The other criteria literally are referred to as back up plans ("Plan B", "Plan C")

"and should not be considered unless the judge does not see ANY advantage in the Effective Striking/Grappling realm."

So, as long one fighter satisfies as having an advantage in Criteria #1, for all intents and purposes Criteria #2 and #3 do not even exist.

I think this is the source of the confusion. People assume the three criteria are judged as whole every fight, when the reality is is the often times judges probably do not go past ESG. That is how they're instructed to judge.

So, in Rd 1. of the Yan-O'Malley fight, knowing O'Malley did not have any effective grappling, and perhaps did not have an advantage in aggression, we can deduce that 2 judges thought O'Malley had the advantage in striking. We can also deduce 1 judge believed Yan had the advantage in striking (since his grappling was not "effective") OR thought the striking was even in the round, but that Yan won on aggression.

 

[Shaun K]

Suga whooped his ass

 

[MrCoffee]

you couldn't have cherrypicked these gifs harder. why not post any of yan's highlights?

Read the thread title that you willingly clicked on. Maybe you'll get it.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

That was a good head kick

 

[eddi]

Nobody else was apparently touching this fight so here's some fun GIFs of what Suga did that led him to the decision:

so he basically nothing

 

[Langinbang187]

No, they're not considered. I think this misunderstanding is what leads to these arguments

View attachment 949847

First criteria: Effective Striking Grappling
2nd order criteria: Aggression
3rd order criteria: Cage Control

#'s 2 & 3 go out the window if one fighter is deemed to have had an advantage in the effective striking and grappling. The other criteria literally are referred to as back up plans ("Plan B", "Plan C")

"and should not be considered unless the judge does not see ANY advantage in the Effective Striking/Grappling realm."

So, as long one fighter satisfies as having an advantage in Criteria #1, for all intents and purposes Criteria #2 and #3 do not even exist.

I think this is the source of the confusion. People assume the three criteria are judged as whole every fight, when the reality is is the often times judges probably do not go past ESG. That is how they're instructed to judge.

So, in Rd 1. of the Yan-O'Malley fight, knowing O'Malley did not have any effective grappling, and perhaps did not have an advantage in aggression, we can deduce that 2 judges thought O'Malley had the advantage in striking. We can also deduce 1 judge believed Yan had the advantage in striking (since his grappling was not "effective") OR thought the striking was even in the round, but that Yan won on aggression.

View attachment 949847

First criteria: Effective Striking Grappling
2nd order criteria: Aggression
3rd order criteria: Cage Control

#'s 2 & 3 go out the window if one fighter is deemed to have had an advantage in the effective striking and grappling. The other criteria literally are referred

No, they're not considered. I think this misunderstanding is what leads to these arguments

View attachment 949847

First criteria: Effective Striking Grappling
2nd order criteria: Aggression
3rd order criteria: Cage Control

#'s 2 & 3 go out the window if one fighter is deemed to have had an advantage in the effective striking and grappling. The other criteria literally are referred to as back up plans ("Plan B", "Plan C")

"and should not be considered unless the judge does not see ANY advantage in the Effective Striking/Grappling realm."

So, as long one fighter satisfies as having an advantage in Criteria #1, for all intents and purposes Criteria #2 and #3 do not even exist.

I think this is the source of the confusion. People assume the three criteria are judged as whole every fight, when the reality is is the often times judges probably do not go past ESG. That is how they're instructed to judge.

So, in Rd 1. of the Yan-O'Malley fight, knowing O'Malley did not have any effective grappling, and perhaps did not have an advantage in aggression, we can deduce that 2 judges thought O'Malley had the advantage in striking. We can also deduce 1 judge believed Yan had the advantage in striking (since his grappling was not "effective") OR thought the striking was even in the round, but that Yan won on aggression.

Those last 3 conditions you mentioned (aggressor, takedowns, control) are all completely irrelevant IF a judge decides one fighter was more effective [doing damage] with their striking (or grappling - legit sub attempts) than the other.

There's certainly confusion here, but I believe that's on your end. When I mentioned control, I wasn't referring to cage control, I was speaking about the minute + or so of grappling control Yan managed to garner over O'Malley in round 1. Grappling/striking are quite literally listed directly in criteria #1, we cannot simply ignore a takedown and a minute of grappling control in a round where the striking was closely contested, simply because it doesn't fit your narrative. Yan landing a high altitude takedown and controlling him on the ground is indeed effective grappling.

This is all on top of the fact that Yan quite literally outlanded O'Malley in the total strike department as well in the round, there is simply not a single area in which O'Malley was superior in the opening round, there's no case for it.

If you want to be extremely generous to Sean, say all things were even in the striking/grappling department(which I don't believe there is a reasonable case for), then you need to resort to the aggression aspect, for which Yan walked down O'Malley for the overwhelming vast majority of the third.

O'Malley lost that round, based on the scoring criteria used.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Slight mistake in the title. It should read: GIFs Suga Sean O'Malley's "win" against Yan


Jarl

 

[Eiger]

View attachment 949847

First criteria: Effective Striking Grappling
2nd order criteria: Aggression
3rd order criteria: Cage Control

#'s 2 & 3 go out the window if one fighter is deemed to have had an advantage in the effective striking and grappling. The other criteria literally are referred





There's certainly confusion here, but I believe that's on your end. When I mentioned control, I wasn't referring to cage control, I was speaking about the minute + or so of grappling control Yan managed to garner over O'Malley in round 1. Grappling/striking are quite literally listed directly in criteria #1, we cannot simply ignore a takedown and a minute of grappling control in a round where the striking was closely contested, simply because it doesn't fit your narrative. Yan landing a high altitude takedown and controlling him on the ground is indeed effective grappling.

This is all on top of the fact that Yan quite literally outlanded O'Malley in the total strike department as well in the round, there is simply not a single area in which O'Malley was superior in the opening round, there's no case for it.

If you want to be extremely generous to Sean, say all things were even in the striking/grappling department(which I don't believe there is a reasonable case for), then you need to resort to the aggression aspect, for which Yan walked down O'Malley for the overwhelming vast majority of the third.

O'Malley lost that round, based on the scoring criteria used.

Yes, "Effective grappling" is part of the first order criteria. Now, what is considered to be "effective grappling"? It is not just any and all grappling that takes place. It is sub attempts and grappling that leads to positions for sub attempts. We have the rules we have now because too many fighters were winning via "ineffective grappling", and it was deemed unsatisfying. I think it's fair and reasonable if Yan's grappling was judged to be mostly ineffective in that fight.

Since you enjoy Weasel vids, I recommend this one w/timestamps on effective grappling.



As he says, it's all a bit vague and unambiguous in the wordings of the rule. It leaves space for the judges' interpretations. Maybe too much space.

 

[MEAN357]

GSP looked like he went through a meatgrinder after 50-45'ing fighters.

Fighters wear damage differently.

Petr has Nordic pigmentation and skin, O'Malley has Mediterranean pigmentation and skin. O'Malley threw and landed more, thats it. Also Sean is white as snow aint a damn thing Mediterranean about a dude named O'MALLEY lmao

The former accumulates bruising, scarring, and swelling much easier than the latter.

"Nordic pigmentation and skin" lmfao bro you're so fulla shit it's coming out of your ears. O'Malley threw and landed more, thats the difference. Also Sean is white as fucking snow theres literally nothing Mediterranean about a dude named O'MALLEY lmao

Sherdogs eugenics and dermatology expert, ladies and gentlemen

 

[ChangeIsComing]

Most of the gifs show how many shots he missed of that were touches all likely counted as sig strikes...fuck that decision it was corrupt as fuck stats were manipulated and only people that think he won are working for the UFC or morons.

 

[Joshuaace]

As he says, it's all a bit vague and unambiguous in the wordings of the rule. It leaves space for the judges' interpretations. Maybe too much space.

I actually think if you look at the "dominance" section of the guidelines for applying a 10-8 it shows pretty clearly what they considered the most effective aspects of grappling, removing at least some of the ambiguity the Weasle references.

"Dominance in the grappling phase can be seen by fighters taking dominant positions in the fight and utilizing those positions to attempt fight ending submissions or attacks. Merely holding a dominant position(s) shall not be a primary factor in assessing dominance. What the fighter does with those positions is what must be assessed."

"In the absence of dominance in the grappling phase, as set forth in paragraph 3 of the promulgated rules, to be considered dominate, there must be a singularly or in combination, some types of submission attempts, strikes, or an overwhelming pace which is measured by improved or aggressive positional changes that cause the losing fighter to consistently be in a defensive or reactive mode"

So I think if you just apply the spirit of what is defined as dominant to a lesser degree than dominant, or a lesser duration, then I think you end up with a good baseline for effective grappling.

 

[Langinbang187]

Yes, "Effective grappling" is part of the first order criteria. Now, what is considered to be "effective grappling"? It is not just any and all grappling that takes place. It is sub attempts and grappling that leads to positions for sub attempts. We have the rules we have now because too many fighters were winning via "ineffective grappling", and it was deemed unsatisfying. I think it's fair and reasonable if Yan's grappling was judged to be mostly ineffective in that fight.

Since you enjoy Weasel vids, I recommend this one w/timestamps on effective grappling.



As he says, it's all a bit vague and unambiguous in the wordings of the rule. It leaves space for the judges' interpretations. Maybe too much space.

It's certainly quite vague, not exactly cut and dry regarding what indeed it is, it's certainly more than simply submission attempts and positions that lead to submission attempts, it's the takedown that landed him in a favorable position to some strikes on O'Malley as well, two things that are also supposed to be taken into account in the scoring criteria.

All in all, I don't believe the grappling from Yan on it's own would be enough to turn the round in his favor, had O'Malley been clear and away the more effective striker on the feet, I wouldn't consider it a swaying moment, I would only add the fact that Yan did have success grappling, on top of having more success in the total strikes count.

Nobody had any big, deciding moments on the feet in that round, I nudge towards Yan, but it was quite close. At that point you need to look at grappling, where Yan at the very least had slight success. You wish to be extremely generous to O'Malley and call both even at this point? I would strongly disagree, but say we do, we nulify the grappling advantage Yan had, we call the striking equal, at this point we must go to the second scoring criteria, aggression, where Yan most certainly had the advantage.

Discussing the grappling again, it's certainly up to judges interpretations too much, we see large inconsistencies on a fight to fight basis, it's nothing new, judges are largely not only inconsistent, but incompetent at times.

O'Malley put up a strong, competitive performance, but under the current scoring system, I just cannot see an argument for him winning either of the first two rounds all things taken into consideration under the scoring system.

 

[Cpt Migraine]

 

[Bradillac]

You want me to create multiple gifs, because you're too lazy to re-watch the fight?

His prominent strikes in round 1 were his kicks, in which he landed several hard body shots, you would certainly know this if you were paying attention and actually re-watched the round.

He did enough on the feet to have a slight edge, you combine that with a takedown and grappling control, and there's simply no logical case for O'Malley winning the round.

Stop lying to yourself and post proof that Yan won the round. Oh wait you can't because there is no proof that Yan won. He was unable land one head strike in the round and ate plenty clean ones from Sean. Anyone claiming Yan had an edge on the feet is straight up delusional, the only case you can make for Yan winning the round is the td, but that argument doesn't hold up because he didn't do anything with it.

 

[Langinbang187]

Stop lying to yourself and post proof that Yan won the round. Oh wait you can't because there is no proof that Yan won. He was unable land one head strike in the round and ate plenty clean ones from Sean.

So many people being competent, bringing logic to these discussions in here, and there's you, bringing nothing to the table and completely and utterly lying, while not having the slightest clue on how these fights are scored.

I've literally posted an entire video breaking down the strikes, grappling that transpired in the round, and it most certainly did not transpire in the manner you continue to insist.

It's become painfully obvious that you are either trolling, drunk, didn't watch the fight, or retarded at this point.

Perhaps a lethal combination of all....you're desperate for attention, and it's painful to witness.

Best of luck with that.

 

[Bradillac]

So many people being competent, bringing logic to these discussions in here, and there's you, bringing nothing to the table and completely and utterly lying, while not having the slightest clue on how these fights are scored.

I've literally posted an entire video breaking down the strikes, grappling that transpired in the round, and it most certainly did not transpire in the manner you continue to insist.

It's become painfully obvious that you are either trolling, drunk, didn't watch the fight, or retarded at this point.

Perhaps a lethal combination of all....you're desperate for attention, and it's painful to witness.

Best of luck with that.

You realized you're talking about yourself right? I've actually provided a breakdown for the round, while you keep on talking about betting odds. How many people need to explain the scoring criteria to you before you take a look in the mirror. You admitted you didn't know what the scoring criteria was, and when you looked it up you doubled doubled down on your ununiformed viewpoint. You've been unable to even come close to explaining how Yan won the striking with Sean landing the only significant head strikes in the round.

 

[Langinbang187]

You realized you're talking about yourself right? I've actually provided a breakdown for the round, while you keep on talking about betting odds. How many people need to explain the scoring criteria to you before you take a look in the mirror. You admitted you didn't know what the scoring criteria was, and when you looked it up you doubled doubled down on your ununiformed viewpoint. You've been unable to even come close to explaining how Yan won the striking with Sean landing the only significant head strikes in the round.

You quite literally just stated that Yan did not land a single head strike in the first round, why on earth would anybody be interested in you "breaking down a fight" when you're posting completely and totally fraudulent information in a desperate, pitiful attempt to make O'Malley look more successful in the round than he was? Of course I posted betting odds, media scores, fan polls from individuals who actually watched the fight, unlike you.

You're now completely and totally fabricating events, while I have civil discussions with individuals far more competent than you regarding the scoring system, and why I don't see a logical reason for O'Malley being awarded the round.

You're simply desperate for attention and annoying, go be irrelevant and idiotic out of my notifications, the only reason I wasted time responding for you as long as I did the other night, was because I was heavily intoxicated, and you're clearly extremely salty still days later about how that transpired. Get over it, you're worse than my ex.

 

[Mickey Mick]

GSP looked like he went through a meatgrinder after 50-45'ing fighters.

Fighters wear damage differently.

Petr has Nordic pigmentation and skin, O'Malley has Mediterranean pigmentation and skin.

The former accumulates bruising, scarring, and swelling much easier than the latter.

wtf Petr isn’t Nordic, he’s Russian.
And how did you get Mediterranean from O’Mally?

that surname is Irish and if anything their skin is very fair and bruises easily.

 

[BJJ Lover]

wtf Petr isn’t Nordic, he’s Russian.
And how did you get Mediterranean from O’Mally?

that surname is Irish and if anything their skin is very fair and bruises easily.

I'm just talking about their skin types and stuff.

Peter Yan has a northern European skin pigmentation. It's pink and he's blond.

Sean O'Malley has a Mediterranean skin pigmentation. It's yellowish and he's dark haired and dark eyed (some Irish people are like this, like Colin Farrel).

 

[quebert]

you couldn't have cherrypicked these gifs harder. why not post any of yan's highlights?

He cherry picked gifs of a fighter who WON the fight.

Sherdoggers proclaiming it was the biggest robbery in the history of the world won't change the fact that there's a W on Sean's record. Also, if you were to cherry-pick gifs of Yan I only you'd only have maybe 5 or 6 compared to the 11 OP made. So there's that...