Grease the Grove vs less sets/higher intensity.

[KnightTemplar]

After discussing it with my PT, we've decided to include some body weight exercises along with barbells etc. I'll be starting with Kneeling Press Ups using Push Up Handles, to take the stress off my shoulders.

I'm trying to decide between Greasing the Groove with multiple sub-maximal sets every day, or 3 - 4 intensive sets a couple of times per week. If I choose GtG, I'll do the push-ups on days I don't train with weights. If it's the 4 sets of push ups, with higher reps/intensity, I'll do them a couple of times per week on the days I lift(but not Bench day).

Greasing the Groove sounds good in theory, but I believe it comes from Pavel, or at least he came up with the name. During the Lockdown in 2020 when the gyms were closed, I bought some kettlebells and Pavel's Simple but Sinister ebook. I should have bought myself a chin up/dip station instead. Simple and Sinsiter was better than nothing, but not by much. I made no real gains. So I'm a bit suspicious when it comes to Pavel's stuff.

What say you, my Dog-Brothers?

 

[ROcknrollracing]

After discussing it with my PT, we've decided to include some body weight exercises along with barbells etc. I'll be starting with Kneeling Press Ups using Push Up Handles, to take the stress off my shoulders.

I'm trying to decide between Greasing the Groove with multiple sub-maximal sets every day, or 3 - 4 intensive sets a couple of times per week. If I choose GtG, I'll do the push-ups on days I don't train with weights. If it's the 4 sets of push ups, with higher reps/intensity, I'll do them a couple of times per week on the days I lift(but not Bench day).

Greasing the Groove sounds good in theory, but I believe it comes from Pavel, or at least he came up with the name. During the Lockdown in 2020 when the gyms were closed, I bought some kettlebells and Pavel's Simple but Sinister ebook. I should have bought myself a chin up/dip station instead. Simple and Sinsiter was better than nothing, but not by much. I made no real gains. So I'm a bit suspicious when it comes to Pavel's stuff.

What say you, my Dog-Brothers?

It is mostly just fabrication that doing a bunch of pushups every day is going to translate to much of anything. You are better off doing the higher intensity sets.

 

[NoSmilez]

Isn't Greasing the Groove just doing multiple small sets throughout the day? I can't remember the exact protocol but I had one of those old Pavel books from my friend. It seems to me that a lot of the stuff he coined is already out there. He repackages it in some sort of weird comrade terminology but he does it make easier to digest. I am assuming using that protocol and applying it to pushups is like doing multiple small sets throughout the day? Suppose say your max is around 10 pushups. You do 4-5 reps per set. Rest times are also very long like 30-60 minutes in between sets? You just do them throughout the day?

It just seems like technique and volume training? It's sort of similar to Sheiko or those modified eastern bloc protocols. The more you do something then you are better at that motor pattern? It's been many years since I had that book. I believe he was trying to sell that method for hypertrophy too. With this method you are just able to get more volume in without accumulating fatigue. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try it out. It just requires a lot of time commitment.

 

[wufabufa]

Greased the groove with pull ups for about 3 months. I never really kept track of how many I did in a given day but my sets would usually leave a lot on the table so I would never get even close to failure. I made sure to start from a deadhang and use good form for each rep. Used all the different grips on my pull up bar too. I put my pull up bar in the doorway of my bathroom and would do a set every time I walked past it.

I made decent progress both in terms of total reps and noticeable development of my back with greasing the groove.

 

[maximus__]

After discussing it with my PT, we've decided to include some body weight exercises along with barbells etc. I'll be starting with Kneeling Press Ups using Push Up Handles, to take the stress off my shoulders.

I'm trying to decide between Greasing the Groove with multiple sub-maximal sets every day, or 3 - 4 intensive sets a couple of times per week. If I choose GtG, I'll do the push-ups on days I don't train with weights. If it's the 4 sets of push ups, with higher reps/intensity, I'll do them a couple of times per week on the days I lift(but not Bench day).

Greasing the Groove sounds good in theory, but I believe it comes from Pavel, or at least he came up with the name. During the Lockdown in 2020 when the gyms were closed, I bought some kettlebells and Pavel's Simple but Sinister ebook. I should have bought myself a chin up/dip station instead. Simple and Sinsiter was better than nothing, but not by much. I made no real gains. So I'm a bit suspicious when it comes to Pavel's stuff.

What say you, my Dog-Brothers?

Grease the groove is good to take you from beginner to competent. It will give you similar results to Simple and Sinister, improvements but nothing special outside that movement after a short rapid increase. In your situation it wouldn't be terrible because you are trying to add some volume.
Your PT should should be the one to tell you where to plug it in. I wouldn't even worry about doing them on the same day you bench press. I would think they would make a good warmup if sub max or assistance exercise if post bench press, but I don't know why you feel you need to add them in. Is PT, Personal trainer or Physical therapist?

 

[KnightTemplar]

Grease the groove is good to take you from beginner to competent. It will give you similar results to Simple and Sinister, improvements but nothing special outside that movement after a short rapid increase. In your situation it wouldn't be terrible because you are trying to add some volume.
Your PT should should be the one to tell you where to plug it in. I wouldn't even worry about doing them on the same day you bench press. I would think they would make a good warmup if sub max or assistance exercise if post bench press, but I don't know why you feel you need to add them in. Is PT, Personal trainer or Physical therapist?

Personal Trainer.

Because of the shoulder operation, I have limited options when it comes to Pressing. Basically, Smith Machine, Football Bar or Press-Ups with the hands in a neutral position.

A couple of weeks ago, I injured my right hand while performing a Dumbbell Hex Press. That happened because I have less shoulder mobility in my left shoulder than my right. The dumbbell slipped and smashed my right thumb. I emailed my PT, told him what happened and asked him to recommend an alternative exercise. He suggested Kneeling Press Ups with handles. But I neglicted to ask him if I should simply replace the Hex Press in the program with them, or do them on other days as well.

I'll get back in touch with my PT and ask him to calrify where and when he wants me add in the Push Ups.

 

[maximus__]

Personal Trainer.

Because of the shoulder operation, I have limited options when it comes to Pressing. Basically, Smith Machine, Football Bar or Press-Ups with the hands in a neutral position.

A couple of weeks ago, I injured my right hand while performing a Dumbbell Hex Press. That happened because I have less shoulder mobility in my left shoulder than my right. The dumbbell slipped and smashed my right thumb. I emailed my PT, told him what happened and asked him to recommend an alternative exercise. He suggested Kneeling Press Ups with handles. But I neglicted to ask him if I should simply replace the Hex Press in the program with them, or do them on other days as well.

I'll get back in touch with my PT and ask him to calrify where and when he wants me add in the Push Ups.

I have similar issues with my left shoulder after a neck injury switched off my triceps. It's significantly weaker than my right side and the limiting factor in all my pressing.
I am surprised you can't just get by with neutral grip single arm variations of presses. I find things like ring dips, single arm presses and anything that allows my left side to be the limiting factor to be the way to go.

Given what you said, I would use them as an assistance. That way you can still your compound press fresh and then use the pushups to safely overload things.
Definitely do what your PT says though if you are paying them to sort your programming.

 

[JimRussel]

Personal Trainer.

Because of the shoulder operation, I have limited options when it comes to Pressing. Basically, Smith Machine, Football Bar or Press-Ups with the hands in a neutral position.

A couple of weeks ago, I injured my right hand while performing a Dumbbell Hex Press. That happened because I have less shoulder mobility in my left shoulder than my right. The dumbbell slipped and smashed my right thumb. I emailed my PT, told him what happened and asked him to recommend an alternative exercise. He suggested Kneeling Press Ups with handles. But I neglicted to ask him if I should simply replace the Hex Press in the program with them, or do them on other days as well.

I'll get back in touch with my PT and ask him to calrify where and when he wants me add in the Push Ups.

Why would you be able to press with a Smith machine, but not a barbell?

If I had surgery on my shoulder, the last person I'd be going to for advice is a generic, run of the mill personal trainer. With access to the internet, a personal trainer shouldn't be necessary.

If you've had shoulder surgery, is "3 - 4 intensive sets a couple of times per week," as you put it, really even the best option for your shoulder in its current state?

There are plenty of effective ways "greasing the groove" or skill practice is implemented in lifting programs. Boris Sheiko's programming is another easy example to point out.

The choice is largely going to come down to what your shoulder can safely handle right now and what works best for you as a trainee. Some people respond better to more frequency/skill practice with lower intensity, some respond better to higher intensity less frequently.

Pretty sure you have me blocked and like to ignore me, so all the best.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Putting your shoulder through constant state of stress and recovery is a stupid thing to do. Sheiko has nothing to do with pushups done every day.

 

[JimRussel]

Putting your shoulder through constant state of stress and recovery is a stupid thing to do. Sheiko has nothing to do with pushups done every day.

Good post, man. Nice work and reading comprehension as usual.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Good post, man. Nice work and reading comprehension as usual.

Your post is wrong. I read it just fine boss.

 

[Baby Hanma]

There comes a point where Greasing the Groove becomes pointless, random acts of easy repetitions that don't produce any gains. But aside from that, my opinion is to Grease the Groove, except make sure you're lifting heavy as you do many sets. It doesnt matter if its twelve heavy singles, eight sets of doubles or triples, or six sets of triples. It doesn't matter if it's a squat-twice-a-day Bulgarian wannabe program or some mediocre-looking shit that has you squatting thrice a week with an unusually precise, specific, albeit heavy weight, or some five sets of five reps shit from old articles (and thats high volume)... It'll work for the chosen movement as long as you're eating and resting enough. And as long as it's not the Dread Lift.

The alternative is extreme, max effort, 110% of one-rep-max lifting once a month. Screw that.

Just do long workouts with lots of heavy-ass sets with appropriate frequency. The thought of not making progress after lots of hard work in the gym makes zero sense. It worked well on old school powerlifters, bodybuilders, and Olympic lifters.

 

[mr.sandman]

Both can work, up to some point. I suggest you try and see what works for you best. I think greasing the groove is best in combination with straight training. Like you do 2x week 3 straight sets close to failure, and then every day you do couple times a day sub maximal sets, that dont fatigue you but contribute to strength gains. This is how ive understood greasing the groove atleast.

Im experimenting with lower volume atm myself. Since the gains are slow im thinking maybe this will work better for increasing strength. I always done like atleast 3-5 heavy sets all do max etc. Right now im doing reverse pyramid training, one heavy all out set 4-6 reps, followed by back down set with -15% weight, and one more set with like -10% more from the bar. Lets say I do this on bench press, then second time in week i do 3x 8-12 reps on some chest machine with good formand thats all for the chest for the week. This way i get the heavy work in, volume with the backdown sets and no overtraining. There is alot of advocates for this kind of training(low volume/high intensity).

 

[NoSmilez]

Personal Trainer.

Because of the shoulder operation, I have limited options when it comes to Pressing. Basically, Smith Machine, Football Bar or Press-Ups with the hands in a neutral position.

A couple of weeks ago, I injured my right hand while performing a Dumbbell Hex Press. That happened because I have less shoulder mobility in my left shoulder than my right. The dumbbell slipped and smashed my right thumb. I emailed my PT, told him what happened and asked him to recommend an alternative exercise. He suggested Kneeling Press Ups with handles. But I neglicted to ask him if I should simply replace the Hex Press in the program with them, or do them on other days as well.

I'll get back in touch with my PT and ask him to calrify where and when he wants me add in the Push Ups.

Get rid of the Hex Press. It is honestly not a great exercise from a hypertrophy standpoint. Your hands are too close together so your chest cannot stretch or get into a lengthened position. Even at the top shortened position that stimulus isn't real. You feel like a contraction when your arms are locked and straight. You can feel the same stimulus without a load with just your arms straighten out. It is also hard to progress in terms of load. It is honestly hard to balance when it gets heavier.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Get rid of the Hex Press. It is honestly not a great exercise from a hypertrophy standpoint. Your hands are too close together so your chest cannot stretch or get into a lengthened position. Even at the top shortened position that stimulus isn't real. You feel like a contraction when your arms are locked and straight. You can feel the same stimulus without a load with just your arms straighten out. It is also hard to progress in terms of load. It is honestly hard to balance when it gets heavier.

Yeah, Hex Press won't be a part of my training going forward. If I have to do a dumbbell pressing exercise, it will be Dumbbell Bench.

 

[mr.sandman]

Hex press if you mean dumbbell press with the bellls pressed togethdr is a great exercise imo. Its a super close grip bench press. Compound exercise that hits the triceps very hard and also works the inner chest. Take it more as compound triceps focused exercise. I also like how it feels. Very comfortable to do and i feel it very good in the chest and triceps. Also its possible to do it on the floorwich is good for home training if you dont have a bench. You can do it as a triceps exercise instead of pushdowns and get extra pressing volume also

 

[NoSmilez]

Hex press if you mean dumbbell press with the bellls pressed togethdr is a great exercise imo. Its a super close grip bench press. Compound exercise that hits the triceps very hard and also works the inner chest. Take it more as compound triceps focused exercise. I also like how it feels. Very comfortable to do and i feel it very good in the chest and triceps. Also its possible to do it on the floorwich is good for home training if you dont have a bench. You can do it as a triceps exercise instead of pushdowns and get extra pressing volume also

It's really not a good exercise for hypertrophy. You are better off using a close neutral grip or regular dumbbell press.. Think about it a little. The hex press limits your range of motion and stretch at the bottom. You aren't "working" your inner chest either. Your pec fibers aren't being worked at that angle. What you are feeling is isometric hold. Try to hold your hands straight together and squeeze. You are pretty much mimicking that same isometric sensation without even a load. That sensation isn't because of the load what you are lifting. It's not an exercise you can easily progressively overload. Past a certain weight then it gets stupid or awkward to balance. It has the similar range issues as a tricep exercise. There are better tricep focused exercises to do than a hex press.

The only time I feel it would be beneficial is that if you can't tolerate the regular dumbbell press due to some issues. Some limited range partial pressing is better than no pressing. You are still better off with a neutral grip dumbbell press vs using the hex press.

 

[mr.sandman]

It's really not a good exercise for hypertrophy. You are better off using a close neutral grip or regular dumbbell press.. Think about it a little. The hex press limits your range of motion and stretch at the bottom. You aren't "working" your inner chest either. Your pec fibers aren't being worked at that angle. What you are feeling is isometric hold. Try to hold your hands straight together and squeeze. You are pretty much mimicking that same isometric sensation without even a load. That sensation isn't because of the load what you are lifting. It's not an exercise you can easily progressively overload. Past a certain weight then it gets stupid or awkward to balance. It has the similar range issues as a tricep exercise. There are better tricep focused exercises to do than a hex press.

The only time I feel it would be beneficial is that if you can't tolerate the regular dumbbell press due to some issues. Some limited range partial pressing is better than no pressing. You are still better off with a neutral grip dumbbell press vs using the hex press.

Who likes it who dont i guess. But as far as im aware, the wider you grip the more it trains the chest closer to the armpit, and the closer you grip it hits more the middle part. Closer grip bench develops more inner chest and wide chest press more outer. This is true in my expirience also. Back in the day when i did super wide bench, the muscle always hurt close to the armpit next day

As far as it being hard to balance when heavy. I never done it super heavy, but imo its super stable exercise compared to regular dumbbell press. Since the dumbbells are pressed together, they support each other. Very easy to execute exercise and feels very nice for me.


In regards to the range of motion, while yes you dont get much stretch on the chest, but it isnt much shorter range of motion then regular barbell bench press imo, maybe coupe inches. So its not so bad exercise, you are throwing away perfectly good exercises for one small excuse that no chest stretch. For me it is a good version of close grip bench press.

You know the diamond pushup exercise? Hex press is literally the diamond pushup on steroids, that you can hit heavy, comfortobaly and with a perfectly weight calibrated dumbbells for optimal rep range you seek. And you can do so without even a bench you just need rubber coated dumbbells and a floor. A triceps focused pressing compound. Take it as that and as that its a great exercise for either strength or hypertrophy in my humble opinion. It wont replace real bench press or pressdowns but in addition to them its a valuable tool that can be used in routines. Im pretty sure even if you only did the hex press you would still build a decent chest and triceps. I myself would use it in a minimalist / fighter type routine as a triceps exercise, so you get tricep work from bench press, ohp , and hex press wich gives decent enough volume and you benefit from getting a little extra pressing volume from it also

 

[NoSmilez]

Who likes it who dont i guess. But as far as im aware, the wider you grip the more it trains the chest closer to the armpit, and the closer you grip it hits more the middle part. Closer grip bench develops more inner chest and wide chest press more outer. This is true in my expirience also. Back in the day when i did super wide bench, the muscle always hurt close to the armpit next day

As far as it being hard to balance when heavy. I never done it super heavy, but imo its super stable exercise compared to regular dumbbell press. Since the dumbbells are pressed together, they support each other. Very easy to execute exercise and feels very nice for me.


In regards to the range of motion, while yes you dont get much stretch on the chest, but it isnt much shorter range of motion then regular barbell bench press imo, maybe coupe inches. So its not so bad exercise, you are throwing away perfectly good exercises for one small excuse that no chest stretch. For me it is a good version of close grip bench press.

You know the diamond pushup exercise? Hex press is literally the diamond pushup on steroids, that you can hit heavy, comfortobaly and with a perfectly weight calibrated dumbbells for optimal rep range you seek. And you can do so without even a bench you just need rubber coated dumbbells and a floor. A triceps focused pressing compound. Take it as that and as that it’s a great exercise for either strength or hypertrophy in my humble opinion. It wont replace real bench press or pressdowns but in addition to them it’s a valuable tool that can be used in routines. Im pretty sure even if you only did the hex press you would still build a decent chest and triceps. I myself would use it in a minimalist / fighter type routine as a triceps exercise, so you get tricep work from bench press, ohp , and hex press wich gives decent enough volume and you benefit from getting a little extra pressing volume from it also

The first part of your reply is a little bit of outdated bro science. Your inner chest can’t be targeted in terms of isolation because there is no inner chest muscle. Just look at an anatomy chart. You can also see how the muscle fibers runs more or less horizontally across the chest. They don’t run vertically.

Think about it. Compare the muscle fibers to a rope. It’s like trying to hold a rope at both ends but trying to pull/tighten one side without the other end tightening too. You can’t isolate one part of the rope.

At best you can target the upper/lower part of the chest. You do that by manipulating the angles. We can discuss what constitutes a great exercise vs a bad one later. It’s interesting to me.