guiding the new generation of hobbyists and martial artists

[zapataxiv]

what's good stand up forum

the young ZapatistaXIV jr. is finally starting to get interested in martial arts. Have been putting a lot of thought into it. I don't have the goals or dream to live through my son and I don't particularly want him to be a pro when he gets older. Nsteadi do want MA to be a part of his life.

I am a boxing head, but I have been involved in many different MAs.

I was thinking of getting my son into some tmas first that impart good principals and tenets for body mechanics and building a base for things like Boxing, Muay Thai etc.. later.


right now he is doing TKD and I like it for the footwork, mobility and I feel it is a great entrance into the world of kicking.


I have been thinking of also having him try some Kyokushin. there is a Kyokushin school IKO-1 I believe near where I live.

but on he other hand I have been contemplating getting him into the gym and familiarizing him with the world of boxing.


How would y'all or have y'all approached bring your kids into he world of Martial Arts??

 

[Mick Dojang]

TKD will give him lifelong flexibility and kicking ability if he sticks to it, no doubt.

I started TKD very young and continued until I went to college, some thoughts on it:
-TMA can impart good lessons in terms of respect that you may or may not get in a boxing etc environment (I'm not a boxer so idk). But on the flip side of that, it can make you too hesitant to use what you know (TKD is a bit like that). The mindset it imparts is as important as the techniques themselves. I feel like knockdown karate seems to impart that better than TKD or other point-sparring styles.
- Personally if I was doing it again, I would have ditched TKD and gone all in on some form of kickboxing instead when I hit around 16-17. I had all the flexibility/kicking etc benefits I was going to get by that point. At that age you can make the switch to full-contact, with a good base already built (though obviously full-contact from the start would benefit that more)
- If kyokushin was available when I was young, that would have been a better base for real combat imo. TKD went too far down the semi-contact/point sparring rabbit hole and I don't think it'll ever really come out (American Kickboxing was sort of the useful bits of it branching off imo)
- The vibe of boxing/MT is different from TMA. People gravitate to one world or the other, the problem being avoiding mcdojos if they go to TMA (full-contact competition helps here). So just see what he likes and lean towards that I guess.
- TKD will give him a good base if he decides to do MT some day. He'll have to unlearn a bit (e.g. distance management is totally different) but a lot of the body mechanics will be there.
- Looking back, it was much harder to watch fights from different styles back then, e.g. it was only at the end of my TKD days that I came across old Andy Hug bouts on youtube and realised that people were using axe kicks in the ring, not just in TKD. He won't have that problem, so maybe a good way is to expose him to different fighters and styles and see what he likes.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I agree if I had a son TKD would absolute be where I start. Lifelong flexibility and dexterity.

How old is your son? I don’t think I would necessarily put him into boxing unless he’s a teenager or a little younger.

I think TKD and judo/wrestling is where I would start.

Ball and stick sports are great for building good general athletes as well. Especially if it’s fun. Gymnastics/swimming/dancing too for more well rounded body mechanics and coordination

 

[zapataxiv]

TKD will give him lifelong flexibility and kicking ability if he sticks to it, no doubt.

I started TKD very young and continued until I went to college, some thoughts on it:
-TMA can impart good lessons in terms of respect that you may or may not get in a boxing etc environment (I'm not a boxer so idk). But on the flip side of that, it can make you too hesitant to use what you know (TKD is a bit like that). The mindset it imparts is as important as the techniques themselves. I feel like knockdown karate seems to impart that better than TKD or other point-sparring styles.
- Personally if I was doing it again, I would have ditched TKD and gone all in on some form of kickboxing instead when I hit around 16-17. I had all the flexibility/kicking etc benefits I was going to get by that point. At that age you can make the switch to full-contact, with a good base already built (though obviously full-contact from the start would benefit that more)
- If kyokushin was available when I was young, that would have been a better base for real combat imo. TKD went too far down the semi-contact/point sparring rabbit hole and I don't think it'll ever really come out (American Kickboxing was sort of the useful bits of it branching off imo)
- The vibe of boxing/MT is different from TMA. People gravitate to one world or the other, the problem being avoiding mcdojos if they go to TMA (full-contact competition helps here). So just see what he likes and lean towards that I guess.
- TKD will give him a good base if he decides to do MT some day. He'll have to unlearn a bit (e.g. distance management is totally different) but a lot of the body mechanics will be there.
- Looking back, it was much harder to watch fights from different styles back then, e.g. it was only at the end of my TKD days that I came across old Andy Hug bouts on youtube and realised that people were using axe kicks in the ring, not just in TKD. He won't have that problem, so maybe a good way is to expose him to different fighters and styles and see what he likes.

Very interesting post thanks for your time. I feel the same way or at least similar about KK vs TKD. from what i have seen of the students and experinced is KK guys are pretty ready to fight and will let their hands go pretty quickly.
compared to other tma guys who can really suffer dear in the head lights syndrome.
aside from that a lot of kickboxing and japanese kickboxing world is heavily influenced by KK.
My goal is to put him into the areas where he can pick up principles and foundational movements that will carry over to any striking martial art.

I agree if I had a son TKD would absolute be where I start. Lifelong flexibility and dexterity.

How old is your son? I don’t think I would necessarily put him into boxing unless he’s a teenager or a little younger.

I think TKD and judo/wrestling is where I would start.

Ball and stick sports are great for building good general athletes as well. Especially if it’s fun. Gymnastics/swimming/dancing too for more well rounded body mechanics and coordination

Yea my son loves the TKD class and he takes it very seriously
but he is 6 years old
i already show him some stuff on the bag and he enjoys hittign the double end bag
i agree with the idea fo other sports having crossover. but my wife is a bit of a tiger mom and basically wants to allocate the rest of his time for scholarly pursuits
i got her on the MA train because i won her over with the he will be learning and honing a skill and developing his brain argument

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

what's good stand up forum

the young ZapatistaXIV jr. is finally starting to get interested in martial arts. Have been putting a lot of thought into it. I don't have the goals or dream to live through my son and I don't particularly want him to be a pro when he gets older. Nsteadi do want MA to be a part of his life.

I am a boxing head, but I have been involved in many different MAs.

I was thinking of getting my son into some tmas first that impart good principals and tenets for body mechanics and building a base for things like Boxing, Muay Thai etc.. later.


right now he is doing TKD and I like it for the footwork, mobility and I feel it is a great entrance into the world of kicking.


I have been thinking of also having him try some Kyokushin. there is a Kyokushin school IKO-1 I believe near where I live.

but on he other hand I have been contemplating getting him into the gym and familiarizing him with the world of boxing.


How would y'all or have y'all approached bring your kids into he world of Martial Arts??

Judo or wrestling if available.

 

[zapataxiv]

Judo or wrestling if available.

we have Judo, Sanda and bjj
I am thinking first I ant to get his body used to the movements of striking so it is more instinctual think the opposite of B.Schoob

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

we have Judo, Sanda and bjj
I am thinking first I ant to get his body used to the movements of striking so it is more instinctual think the opposite of B.Schoob

For a kid I would say that wrestling or judo could be even more important than striking to ingrain in an early age.

If you see combat sports as "facets of fighting" like I do, then you must know that stand up grappling is a part of fighting is not something that can be neglected. And you must also know that in any context where throwing/takedowns is allowed, the wrestler or judoka who started as a child carries a lifelong advantage over the guy who started later.

Furthermore, wrestling and judo develop qualities and discipline that will carry over well into other sports.

I wouldn't think twice in your case

 

[SandisLL]

For a kid I would say that wrestling or judo could be even more important than striking to ingrain in an early age.

If you see combat sports as "facets of fighting" like I do, then you must know that stand up grappling is a part of fighting is not something that can be neglected. And you must also know that in any context where throwing/takedowns is allowed, the wrestler or judoka who started as a child carries a lifelong advantage over the guy who started later.

Furthermore, wrestling and judo develop qualities and discipline that will carry over well into other sports.

I wouldn't think twice in your case

Stand up positions grappling is very important if you want to work in security agency, police etc....cos you not always will be excused if will punch idiot and better if you can block his hands etc and deal with subject without punching him ....especially if stuff is under video recording and with ppl watching.

One thing is if you had punched guy and he will get in hospital. Other thing if he attempted to grab you or punch you and after you had hold him had fall apart... for judge....in court.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Stand up positions grappling is very important if you want to work in security agency, police etc....cos you not always will be excused if will punch idiot and better if you can block his hands etc and deal with subject without punching him ....especially if stuff is under video recording and with ppl watching.

One thing is if you had punched guy and he will get in hospital. Other thing if he attempted to grab you or punch you and after you had hold him had fall apart... for judge....in court.

Nah i don t even think that far. In any hand to hand situation, you risk ending up clinching with your apanyent. As soon as that happens, you enter the world of the wrestler/judoka and are at an enormous disadvantage if you haven't trained it.

 

[zapataxiv]

For a kid I would say that wrestling or judo could be even more important than striking to ingrain in an early age.

If you see combat sports as "facets of fighting" like I do, then you must know that stand up grappling is a part of fighting is not something that can be neglected. And you must also know that in any context where throwing/takedowns is allowed, the wrestler or judoka who started as a child carries a lifelong advantage over the guy who started later.

Furthermore, wrestling and judo develop qualities and discipline that will carry over well into other sports.

I wouldn't think twice in your case

that's definitely a good point

Stand up positions grappling is very important if you want to work in security agency, police etc....cos you not always will be excused if will punch idiot and better if you can block his hands etc and deal with subject without punching him ....especially if stuff is under video recording and with ppl watching.

One thing is if you had punched guy and he will get in hospital. Other thing if he attempted to grab you or punch you and after you had hold him had fall apart... for judge....in court.

also good points
plus in this age of fights in school being a serious administrative manner having other tools would be useful

 

[zapataxiv]

Nah i don t even think that far. In any hand to hand situation, you risk ending up clinching with your apanyent. As soon as that happens, you enter the world of the wrestler/judoka and are at an enormous disadvantage if you haven't trained it.

also back to just learning the fundies

getting a good sense of heavy hips, balance, grips, trips, and working against and with someone's weight are priceless lessons to learn

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

also back to just learning the fundies

getting a good sense of heavy hips, balance, grips, trips, and working against and with someone's weight are priceless lessons to learn

Precisely. All these things will be an enormous asset to you, depending on the ruleset of course. In a ring as you learn to close the distance and fight in the pocket or clinch.

In the end in order to be competent at fighting you need to be able to strike and to stand up grapple. Period. And I am not even going to go into ground fighting and submissions. But if you hit the ground, the pure striker is a fish out of water.

 

[SandisLL]

Nah i don t even think that far. In any hand to hand situation, you risk ending up clinching with your apanyent. As soon as that happens, you enter the world of the wrestler/judoka and are at an enormous disadvantage if you haven't trained it.

I had trained a bit. Sadly too late for me cos I was more striker while looks that more talent for grappling... and for me liked clinch and deep in pocket stuff.
For me fun was also to work with fingers etc.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

For a kid I would say that wrestling or judo could be even more important than striking to ingrain in an early age.

If you see combat sports as "facets of fighting" like I do, then you must know that stand up grappling is a part of fighting is not something that can be neglected. And you must also know that in any context where throwing/takedowns is allowed, the wrestler or judoka who started as a child carries a lifelong advantage over the guy who started later.

Furthermore, wrestling and judo develop qualities and discipline that will carry over well into other sports.

I wouldn't think twice in your case

Being a lifelong grappler who starts at an early age will make you freak strong and conditioned. Honestly would be much more animal than striking if the mentality is right.

Judo especially, since throws and trips are so timing and body-feel based. Almost impossible to become good at throws and stuff if you start as an adult.

Only downside is the wear and tear on the body if you aren’t smart. Grapplers definitely accumulate the most lifelong injuries compared to other sports, except maybe football

 

[Slothbroth]

Great age for training gymnastics to improve his overall coordination and balance.

Also, wrestling

 

[Slothbroth]

The stand up arts are awesome but a wrestler can usually take a striker down. Look at how many UFC champions had an early wrestling background.

Don't get me wrong, it's good to start him in TKD, Kyokushin, and boxing, but if you add wrestling on top of striking then he will grow up to be an absolute monster.

More data on this subject

Which Fighting Styles Generate the Most UFC/MMA Champions?

From wrestling and BJJ to kickboxing and Taekwondo, Vivid Seats breaks down which fighting styles prove most successful in the MMA octagon.

www.vividseats.com

 

[Woldog]

The stand up arts are awesome but a wrestler can usually take a striker down. Look at how many UFC champions had an early wrestling background.

Don't get me wrong, it's good to start him in TKD, Kyokushin, and boxing, but if you add wrestling on top of striking then he will grow up to be an absolute monster.

More data on this subject

Which Fighting Styles Generate the Most UFC/MMA Champions?

From wrestling and BJJ to kickboxing and Taekwondo, Vivid Seats breaks down which fighting styles prove most successful in the MMA octagon.

www.vividseats.com

What's the old saying
I've seen many videos of boxers and muay thai guys knocking out opponent after opponent in the streets, but I'm yet to see a video of a wrestler or BJJ guy grapple an entire gang into submission.

Very rarely is a fight 1 on 1 anymore. Wrestling and BJJ are great, provided it's a 1 on 1. In a street fight however, the last place you want to go is to the ground. It hinders your ability to escape should things escalate, you are unable to maintain a safe distance from your opponent and control your ability to escape should you need to and it makes it really easy for your opponents buddies to come and use your head as a soccer ball. In general the people who say that wrestling and BJJ are the king of the streets are people who have never fought (I'm not saying this is the case for you. I have no idea who you are).
Wrestling and BJJ certainly have their places in self defence, sometimes no matter what you can't maintain/control the distance and you have to get in close. It's good to be able to fold someone's clothing while they are still in them in that regard. Involuntary yoga is always fun to force upon people.

For me personally I think TKD, Kyokushin or karate or whatever are all outdated wastes of time. TKD probably has the most real world use, but in reality, Boxing, Muay Thai, judo, lethwei and Wrestling are all good skills to have. In the streets however, I would avoid kicks. Elbows and fists are all you need to rule the streets.

 

[Slothbroth]

What's the old saying
I've seen many videos of boxers and muay thai guys knocking out opponent after opponent in the streets, but I'm yet to see a video of a wrestler or BJJ guy grapple an entire gang into submission.

Very rarely is a fight 1 on 1 anymore. Wrestling and BJJ are great, provided it's a 1 on 1. In a street fight however, the last place you want to go is to the ground. It hinders your ability to escape should things escalate, you are unable to maintain a safe distance from your opponent and control your ability to escape should you need to and it makes it really easy for your opponents buddies to come and use your head as a soccer ball. In general the people who say that wrestling and BJJ are the king of the streets are people who have never fought (I'm not saying this is the case for you. I have no idea who you are).
Wrestling and BJJ certainly have their places in self defence, sometimes no matter what you can't maintain/control the distance and you have to get in close. It's good to be able to fold someone's clothing while they are still in them in that regard. Involuntary yoga is always fun to force upon people.

For me personally I think TKD, Kyokushin or karate or whatever are all outdated wastes of time. TKD probably has the most real world use, but in reality, Boxing, Muay Thai, judo, lethwei and Wrestling are all good skills to have. In the streets however, I would avoid kicks. Elbows and fists are all you need to rule the streets.

There are a few videos of professional standup fighters beating the crap out of multiple untrained knuckleheads, but this is extremely rare in the real world and is only normalized in movies.

Spoiler

Even if you're a trained pro, a real killer, you should try to de-escalate or run away if you find yourself confronted by one opponent, let alone multiple attackers. Trying to fight a whole gang seems like a sure ticket to a soccer game with your head.

In a one on one fight, wrestling lets you choose where you want the fight to be.

For example, take DJ vs Rodtang. With no rules to stop takedowns, DJ pulled Rodtang into deep water where he couldn't swim. We've seen Khabib do the same thing to many talented strikers.



Finally, wrestling allows you to de-escalate a fight without striking someone. You can at least control a guy without actually hitting him, making you less likely to catch a charge than if you actually hit him outright.

 

[DoctorTaco]

wrestling allows you to de-escalate a fight

Ironically every wrestler I’ve ever known has a personality that seems to escalate confrontations into fights…

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

There are a few videos of professional standup fighters beating the crap out of multiple untrained knuckleheads, but this is extremely rare in the real world and is only normalized in movies.

however rare it maybe, it still can happen, where as defeating a group of people with grappling is impossible.