HEMA, Bohurt, etc

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

the stupid thing is that swords are treated like clubs to bash well armoured places where in reality swords would be used to penetrate weak areas. it just looks like a messy brawl where the actual utility of the weapons and armour makes no sense. look uo Harnischfechten, actual manuscripts or artwork from the medieval period.

I mentioned Harnischfechten in my previous post.
Yeah, the swords don’t do much other than score points. For dueling that is the purpose, a nonstop sword fight to score higher points. The hits don’t hurt and there is no point in hitting hard. Now the melees and profights are a bit different. Many guys prefer axes and pole arm’s because they do more damage and you really feel the hits. Swords again don’t do much other than score points for strikes in profights, and melees they are pointless unless you use them for grappling leverage. I have a heavy falchion that hits pretty hard, but it really is a glorified war hammer. But we for some reason cannot use war hammers (which I would love) so that’s what I’m left with. I used a mace before but it’s a bit too short for my liking.

I love being able to use my MMA training and throw kicks, knees, elbows, punches, and even headbutts. I like using a buckler shield because I can use hooks and uppercuts on top of straight punches. It gets messy but it will get better as fighters get better. Much like the striking in MMA was when it started. Most fight end up with head straight up brawling. My fight on Sunday, even though he whooped me, I did slip a few of his shield punches which I haven’t seen often in the sport.


I want to give using a zwiehander a chance for team melees, hit hard and have huge leverage.

 

[Einheri]

I've done HEMA for about seven years now. I started with Fiore longsword and dagger, now focus on Lichtenauer. I do longsword, sword and buckler, and my favourite is Langes Messer.

Buhurt is great. Ton of fun. It's basically MMA fully armored. Some of the rules I don't like or could use improving. And yeah, it's more like old knight tournament fighting and less actual fighting to the death ala gaping and using daggers and weapons with spikes, but that's what harnischfechten is for. (Which I would love to do as well)

I don't like it, and pretty much agree it's retarded like the earlier poster said. It's just bashing; not how you'd ever use a sword in armour. I don't see the point.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

I've done HEMA for about seven years now. I started with Fiore longsword and dagger, now focus on Lichtenauer. I do longsword, sword and buckler, and my favourite is Langes Messer.



I don't like it, and pretty much agree it's retarded like the earlier poster said. It's just bashing; not how you'd ever use a sword in armour. I don't see the point.

Outside of duels, most don’t use swords other than falchions. For duels, it’s literally just knight tournament for points. For hema, you wouldn’t really use a sword like that either with all the gambeson and headgear. Slashing would be a useless and you may as well just thrust them.

And it’s not just bashing, it takes a level of skill, trust me. I did MMA for a long time before this, there is a lot of skill and technique involved between takedowns, learning to hit hard and fast with a variety of weapons, defense because if they know what they are doing those hits hurt, strategy for team fights, also knowing how to punch and kick for pro fights. And doing all this in armor is a bit different.

 

[Einheri]

For hema, you wouldn’t really use a sword like that either with all the gambeson and headgear. Slashing would be a useless and you may as well just thrust them.

The padded jackets, gloves, and masks aren't there to simulate armour though. They are a compromise so that we can train hard without killing eachother. It is simulating Blossfechten, hence why we fight as if we were completely unarmoured.

As someone who does a bit of Harischfechten, mostly pollaxe and longsword, I don't see much skill in Buhurt. It looks like mindless and ineffective bashing of armour with edged weapons. The Ringen involved doesn't usually look skillful either, mostly just tackles or clinching until someone falls over, but maybe this is my Judo background talking. I will concede that there is some group tactics involved.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

The padded jackets, gloves, and masks aren't there to simulate armour though. They are a compromise so that we can train hard without killing eachother. It is simulating Blossfechten, hence why we fight as if we were completely unarmoured.

As someone who does a bit of Harischfechten, mostly pollaxe and longsword, I don't see much skill in Buhurt. It looks like mindless and ineffective bashing of armour with edged weapons. The Ringen involved doesn't usually look skillful either, mostly just tackles or clinching until someone falls over, but maybe this is my Judo background talking. I will concede that there is some group tactics involved.

Like I said, it has way more than you think. There are quite a few MMA fighters that do it and it translated well. Dan Hornbuckle from Bellator back in the day does it. Plenty of guys do Judo, lots of it. Wrestlers too. Got BJJ guys too, I’m pretty solid in grappling, along with my Sambo background. The armor changes things but with training and practice it can translate.

Many on the new guys do look rough though. As well as guys who don’t actually train and just go to bash. Hell, I look rough more often than not, the armor does training and skill to get good in. But I’m also relatively new as well.

You haven’t seen much of it if that’s your conclusion. Like a martial artist saying MMA is just brawling with some low level grappling.

I do Hema as well, even that armor changes how you fight just slightly. Buhurt duels are literally what knights do back in the 13-16th centuries. Counting hits while in full armor. They had to train and compete someway in full kit. It’s not bashing hard, hell, you can barely feel the sword hits during duels.

Knight fights and pro fights most guys use heavier weapons, like a mace, axe, or large sized falchions. That would be more accurate to have a rondel and to half sword. But we also aren’t simulating fights to the death. Just tourney fights until someone yields or a time limit is up. The is much more bashing, but good fights have defense and offense and well timed takedowns, and even a bit of grappling on the ground.

And there is a lot of technique in the swings as well. Timing and accuracy.
Here is a shot one guy landed on me last week.

Well timed power shot with a two handed axe during a team melee. I saw it coming but was in the middle of swinging myself. Only had one other bruise from the whole event. Just a small one on the front of my shoulder, not even sure what did that one. I fought quite a few times that day too. Just bashing people, especially if they have a shield like I did, will only make you tired.

 

[shunyata]

Ya'll are making bohurt sound like Tank Abbot era MMA.

Which, frankly, is intriguing.

 

[Einheri]

Ya'll are making bohurt sound like Tank Abbot era MMA.

Which, frankly, is intriguing.

If you've any interest in learning swordsmanship or polearms, I'd strongly suggest that you look to HEMA instead.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Ya'll are making bohurt sound like Tank Abbot era MMA.

Which, frankly, is intriguing.

It sorta is.
I imagine it will eventually get far more technical down the road, with it's popularity increasing and it being around longer with the kinks being worked our.I would say, from what I have seen, it is comparable to MMA in 97ish at this point.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

If you've any interest in learning swordsmanship or polearms, I'd strongly suggest that you look to HEMA instead.

I do agree with this. HEMA is where you learn the technique, even if you want to do Buhurt.

If Buhurt is MMA in 1997 right now. HEMA is boxing and Muay thai.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/14/tom-hardy-hilariously-stumbles-upon-medieval-fight-19329491/

Tom Hardy gave it a try recently.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Won this in a pro fight last Saturday. My next fights are in September.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Won my pro knight fight this past Saturday. But before that I lost both duels I competed in. Sword and Buckler and Longsword. I did face a 3 time national champion in Longsword in the first round, so I knew I was going to lose going in.

The knight fight was good. I won round one by a hair, he won round 2 and I won round 3 both pretty clearly. Here is a quick highlight video someone there made of my fight.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/lwHd2PbnnHk

 

[Phlog]

I missed the local Wessex league longsword tournament because of illness, but I've been developing my style and sparring. Have got competitive with the locals, some of whom have trained 20yrs.

So, tactics.

My style is exactly that which I developed for kickboxing and is predicated upon having longer range (I'm 6'6").

I use thrusts almost exclusively and I mostly use one hand so that my range is increased. Sniping at legs and hands.

I chain this with two handed cuts and thrusts, zornhau etc to deal with any measured counter.

This then forces them to over commit to close the distance enough to engage whereupon I step forward into the clinch and my size, strength and grappling background to my advantage.

The worst that can happen is that I fight an opponent of similar height and that it's a fair fight.

It is a style that entirely focusses on my strengths, only has a few moves that I can drill exhaustively and it is considerably annoying to the opponent. That I believe is the trifecta of sporting competitive success.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

I missed the local Wessex league longsword tournament because of illness, but I've been developing my style and sparring. Have got competitive with the locals, some of whom have trained 20yrs.

So, tactics.

My style is exactly that which I developed for kickboxing and is predicated upon having longer range (I'm 6'6").

I use thrusts almost exclusively and I mostly use one hand so that my range is increased. Sniping at legs and hands.

I chain this with two handed cuts and thrusts, zornhau etc to deal with any measured counter.

This then forces them to over commit to close the distance enough to engage whereupon I step forward into the clinch and my size, strength and grappling background to my advantage.

The worst that can happen is that I fight an opponent of similar height and that it's a fair fight.

It is a style that entirely focusses on my strengths, only has a few moves that I can drill exhaustively and it is considerably annoying to the opponent. That I believe is the trifecta of sporting competitive success.

We already assumed you were 6’6 being a Sherdogger and all that. Seriously though, those are some well thought out tactics.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

If they do nothing, just move closer doing nothing, till it unnerves them into action.

I lined up with a goon once who, felt like fighting in a vacuum. Or one of those dreams where you try to hit, but it never quite reaches them.

I got zipped. Every fucking point I was this close to landing.

With every ounce of skill in me, I got my ass handed to me.

Then later another goon, (who was just sub olympic level) did the same to him.

Then that guy fought a guy who looked like this guy: Who had no lunge, wouldn't even straighten his arm out, and would just start walking right into the the other goon, somehow squirming past the other guys point and commencing stabby stabby. He was was so goddamn sloppy to watch, but he backed everyone up, and only lost to the great guy by 2 touches or so.

You know, what's impressive is how quickly those really good guys can size you up and eat you for lunch before even an approach enters yours skull!

Like I appreciated getting completely out clast. Know what I mean? Just supreme mastery of distance.

There was a guy once, top seed, lefty in a tournament I was in, who someone warned me beforehand, "Hey this guy's a lefty, be careful"

Being a Texas imbecile, I thought, lefty? - Fuck'em!

I used that strategy on him and got 3 hits in a row, boom - boom - boom.

Then I noticed that guy's buddies we're all laughing at him, and he gave me this look like, you fucker!

And then he just started these bounding feint attacks from way out. If I parried he'd disengage the last instant, If I didn't I was toast.

4 in a row. and on the last go, the fucking guy did a bounding leap, like a big hop, landing low, so that I had to look down, at the moment he then leaped up and stabbed me right in the face.

That was as good as I ever did one a 1st seed dude.

I fucking miss fencing.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

I fucking miss fencing.

I just had knee replacement surgery. The other other night I woke up convinced I need a sword to hold my position in the bed.

No one was delivering that time of night, so I took another pill and had some even weirder dreams.

I think I was gonna go with the cold steel small sword.

 

[esotamoc]

I fucking miss fencing.

Never too late to start again..

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Never too late to start again..

It is not possible. I stopped because I moved too far away from my fencing club.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I just had knee replacement surgery. The other other night I woke up convinced I need a sword to hold my position in the bed.

No one was delivering that time of night, so I took another pill and had some even weirder dreams.

I think I was gonna go with the cold steel small sword.

I have the cold stell small sword and don t recommend it.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

I have the cold stell small sword and don t recommend it.



Shit handle? Or dhit everything?