How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

[Leon Edwards]

Lol what a

Fedor had 23 fights in his first 4 years. That's the same amount of fights Stipe has had in 14 years as a pro.

Stipes wins look good on paper but he never beat an all time great HW at their peak. His best wins are 39 year old Werdum who went 4-4 in his next 8 and retired. 40 year old post back surgery Cormier who retired immediately after, post Cain JDS who barely went .500 in his next 10 fights and a green Ngannou who lost to Derrick Lewis in his very next fight. Literally zero wins over an all time great HW in their prime.

Babalu was 19-2 when Fedor fought him and went on to fight for a title in the UFC. Just because he wasn't a HW doesn't mean he wasn't a top level opponent- esp since Fedor was in his first year as a fighter.Stipe was getting knocked out by the likes of Stefan Struve at a similar phase of his career.

Fedor beat Nog when Nog was in his 20s and considered to be the best HW on the planet. A guy who went on to be a UFC champion. A guy who went on to beat guys like Werdum, Barnett and Sergei in their 20s after losing to Fedor.

Fedor beat Arlovski when he was in his 20s and knocking people the fuck out. Arlvoski went on to go on a run in the UFC years after this. When Fedor beat AA, he was knocking out guys like Nelson and Rothwell who not even peak JDS could finish.

Also Fedors wins over guys like Schilt and Hunt were impressive. Easily as impressive as beating someone like Rozenstruik or Tuivasa. I'd argue even more impressive.

Only a Dana White Stan and UFC fanboy would pick Stipe over Fedor legacy wise or in a fight at their very peaks. Fedor would have knocked him out in the first 3 exchanges. Stipe is a slow starter would get boobopped fast by the GOAT.

Stipe beating DC is better than all fedors wins. DC is elite.

 

[Lee Danger]

post Cain JDS who barely went .500 in his next 10 fights

TBH in their first fight Stipe fought super scared and the fight was still super close, it was that match that made me realize how good was Stipe.

And Ngannou is basically always the same fighter, in their second fights it was Stipe that looked like he was another person.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Lol what a

Fedor had 23 fights in his first 4 years. That's the same amount of fights Stipe has had in 14 years as a pro.

Stipes wins look good on paper but he never beat an all time great HW at their peak. His best wins are 39 year old Werdum who went 4-4 in his next 8 and retired. 40 year old post back surgery Cormier who retired immediately after, post Cain JDS who barely went .500 in his next 10 fights and a green Ngannou who lost to Derrick Lewis in his very next fight. Literally zero wins over an all time great HW in their prime.

Babalu was 19-2 when Fedor fought him and went on to fight for a title in the UFC. Just because he wasn't a HW doesn't mean he wasn't a top level opponent- esp since Fedor was in his first year as a fighter.Stipe was getting knocked out by the likes of Stefan Struve at a similar phase of his career.

Fedor beat Nog when Nog was in his 20s and considered to be the best HW on the planet. A guy who went on to be a UFC champion. A guy who went on to beat guys like Werdum, Barnett and Sergei in their 20s after losing to Fedor.

Fedor beat Arlovski when he was in his 20s and knocking people the fuck out. Arlvoski went on to go on a run in the UFC years after this. When Fedor beat AA, he was knocking out guys like Nelson and Rothwell who not even peak JDS could finish.

Also Fedors wins over guys like Schilt and Hunt were impressive. Easily as impressive as beating someone like Rozenstruik or Tuivasa. I'd argue even more impressive.

Only a Dana White Stan and UFC fanboy would pick Stipe over Fedor legacy wise or in a fight at their very peaks. Fedor would have knocked him out in the first 3 exchanges. Stipe is a slow starter would get boobopped fast by the GOAT.

OK

 

[dipstickjimmy]

dipsh*tjimmy….fixed

Why use your White Belt alt account?

 

[DiazSlap]

Why use your White Belt alt account?

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I did not ask about Babalu being a heavyweight, I asked about him being a top level opponent. An opponent Fedor fought in his rookie year, whereas Stipe didn’t fight anyone on that level in his.

There’s nothing cherry-picked about my timeframe, it’s roughly the same timeframe in each fighter’s career. I started counting from Fedor’s 2nd year, when he was fighting Top 10 fighters; I was kind to Stipe and started counting his 9 years one years later, because he fought nobodies his 2nd year and it wouldn’t have even been close.

How is it “cherry-picking” to look at ranked wins, title wins, title defenses, or winning streak, and number of high level opponents? Which other stats would you like to look at? Aren’t those all the significant stats with which one should compare? And Fedor wins every single one of those categories.

"Figures don't Lie but Liars can figure."
Kenny Florian

Fedor fought in a completely different era. Many of his opponents had glaring holes in their game. Schlit and Hunt were pure kickboxers for example. Royce Gracie was amazing when nobody else had BJJ. Title defenses? Defended Pride 3 times but fought 8 times. Defended WAMMA 2x but one was Brett Rogers!!!

Stipe and Fedor fought in completely different Eras and IMO what Fedor did was amazing. What he did Stipe may not have been able to do. Winning 16 in a row, a NC and then 11 in a row is hard to do. Maybe even head to head Fedor would beat Stipe. However Denis Hallman beat Matt Hughes twice. Did he have the better career?

Fedor never did what Stipe did. Fight top competition, fighting top competition CONSISTENTLY. Show me where Stipe is fighting cans? Fedor started judo and sambo as a child so his MMA transition was easy with Sambo being virtually MMA. Stipe was playing baseball at the age Fedor was already in combat sports. Fedor never fought consistenly against top level MMA fighters and when he did he lost. At age 34 Fedor lost to Werdum, Bigfoot and MW Dan Henderson. At the same age Stipe KO's Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum, Overeem & JDS in a row. Then beat Francis in a 5 round domination. Show me a streak in Fedor's resume that compares?

 

[Megatronlee]

How good was Fedor?

I have a hard time genuinely believing that Fedor is truly elite and up there with goats such as

GSP
Anderson
MM
Jones
DC

Fedors record was too padded he fought in such a different weak era and when Fedor came up against semi modern MMA fighters he got beaten badly and could not hang

Some say that he could not hang because of his age. I do not believe this one bit. The real issue was he came up against modern MMA fighters. Isn't is such a coincidence he only started to lose once he faced true elite HWs and all of a sudden he was "out of his prime."

Anderson wrecked Hendo, Fedor a HW got wrecked by Hendo.

Werdum stopped Fedor

And I believe prime Fedor would lose to

Poatan
Anderson
Cain
DC
Aspinal
Gane
Nganu
Black Beast
Jones
Overseen


Fedor has such a padded record and had huge holes in his game

Fedor had poor Boxing, poor fight IQ, poor bottom game. Jones would take him down and elbow him to oblivion.

Fedor was a good fighter but should not be compared to the true elite.

Fedor's myth is more folk lore and myth. His best wins are Cro cop and Nog. Cro cop and nog are good but have glaring holes in their game.

Shrink him down and Andy bests him

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

"Figures don't Lie but Liars can figure."
Kenny Florian

Fedor fought in a completely different era. Many of his opponents had glaring holes in their game. Schlit and Hunt were pure kickboxers for example. Royce Gracie was amazing when nobody else had BJJ. Title defenses? Defended Pride 3 times but fought 8 times. Defended WAMMA 2x but one was Brett Rogers!!!

Stipe and Fedor fought in completely different Eras and IMO what Fedor did was amazing. What he did Stipe may not have been able to do. Winning 16 in a row, a NC and then 11 in a row is hard to do. Maybe even head to head Fedor would beat Stipe. However Denis Hallman beat Matt Hughes twice. Did he have the better career?

Fedor never did what Stipe did. Fight top competition, fighting top competition CONSISTENTLY. Show me where Stipe is fighting cans? Fedor started judo and sambo as a child so his MMA transition was easy with Sambo being virtually MMA. Stipe was playing baseball at the age Fedor was already in combat sports. Fedor never fought consistenly against top level MMA fighters and when he did he lost. At age 34 Fedor lost to Werdum, Bigfoot and MW Dan Henderson. At the same age Stipe KO's Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum, Overeem & JDS in a row. Then beat Francis in a 5 round domination. Show me a streak in Fedor's resume that compares?

Which top competition was Fedor missing in his resume? That he could have fought during his legendary win streak?

Though only guys I could think of that he could have fought if the situation was set up perfectly, would be Couture, Overeem and Brock.

Randy Couture they just couldn't make it happen for some reason. No way Fedor was afraid of him.

Overeem he was set to fight him in Strikeforce if Fedor beat Werdum, but we knew what happened there.

Brock is because the UFC couldn't sign Fedor.

So those are all valid reasons why he didn't fight those 3.

Oh yeah I like to add Josh Barnett, but that was unfortunate what happen there. Would've loved to see Prime Barnett vs. Prime Fedor.

 

[filthybliss]

Lol what a

Fedor had 23 fights in his first 4 years. That's the same amount of fights Stipe has had in 14 years as a pro.

Stipes wins look good on paper but he never beat an all time great HW at their peak. His best wins are 39 year old Werdum who went 4-4 in his next 8 and retired. 40 year old post back surgery Cormier who retired immediately after, post Cain JDS who barely went .500 in his next 10 fights and a green Ngannou who lost to Derrick Lewis in his very next fight. Literally zero wins over an all time great HW in their prime.

Babalu was 19-2 when Fedor fought him and went on to fight for a title in the UFC. Just because he wasn't a HW doesn't mean he wasn't a top level opponent- esp since Fedor was in his first year as a fighter.Stipe was getting knocked out by the likes of Stefan Struve at a similar phase of his career.

Fedor beat Nog when Nog was in his 20s and considered to be the best HW on the planet. A guy who went on to be a UFC champion. A guy who went on to beat guys like Werdum, Barnett and Sergei in their 20s after losing to Fedor.

Fedor beat Arlovski when he was in his 20s and knocking people the fuck out. Arlvoski went on to go on a run in the UFC years after this. When Fedor beat AA, he was knocking out guys like Nelson and Rothwell who not even peak JDS could finish.

Also Fedors wins over guys like Schilt and Hunt were impressive. Easily as impressive as beating someone like Rozenstruik or Tuivasa. I'd argue even more impressive.

Only a Dana White Stan and UFC fanboy would pick Stipe over Fedor legacy wise or in a fight at their very peaks. Fedor would have knocked him out in the first 3 exchanges. Stipe is a slow starter would get boobopped fast by the GOAT.

i think you are downplaying stipe a ton but the last emperor is definetely the superior fighter. if a worn-down DC was able to beat Stipe and Francis was able to send Stipe to the shadow realm, I have no doubt that Prime Fedor would.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

i think you are downplaying stipe a ton but the last emperor is definetely the superior fighter. if a worn-down DC was able to beat Stipe and Francis was able to send Stipe to the shadow realm, I have no doubt that Prime Fedor would.

I hespect Stipe. He's a top 5-7 HW of all time. That's an amazing accomplishment and worthy of praise.

 

[filthybliss]

I hespect Stipe. He's a top 5-7 HW of all time. That's an amazing accomplishment and worthy of praise.

I reckon he's top 3....only prime fedor and cain would beat him rather consistently imo. maybe werdum too?

 

[ThePimblettEra]

"If you didn't get a win in the last 3 weeks you aren't elite"

- Sherdog

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Which top competition was Fedor missing in his resume? That he could have fought during his legendary win streak?

Though only guys I could think of that he could have fought if the situation was set up perfectly, would be Couture, Overeem and Brock.

Randy Couture they just couldn't make it happen for some reason. No way Fedor was afraid of him.

Overeem he was set to fight him in Strikeforce if Fedor beat Werdum, but we knew what happened there.

Brock is because the UFC couldn't sign Fedor.

So those are all valid reasons why he didn't fight those 3.

Oh yeah I like to add Josh Barnett, but that was unfortunate what happen there. Would've loved to see Prime Barnett vs. Prime Fedor.

I never said Fedor was scared or Ducking. Simply comparing Stipe's career vs Fedor's. IMO Stipe > Fedor as a HW all time. Both are great but I feel what Stipe accomplished had a much higher level of difficulty. It is subjective for certain but just how I see it.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

I reckon he's top 3....only prime fedor and cain would beat him rather consistently imo. maybe werdum too?

Legacy wise Fedor, Nog, Werdum and DC ahead of him and perhaps JDS too. All of them have beaten all time great HWs during their prime and that's high on my list.

As far as the match ups I'd take prime Fedor, prime DC, prime JDS, prime Cain and Ubereem over Stipe pretty confidently.

Fights with Nog, Mirko, Barnett and Werdum would be close and could go either way. If they fought Stipe 10x we would probably get mixed results.

I also think peak AA, peak Sergei, peak Alex and peak Rizzo could have beaten Stipe on their best night.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

I never said Fedor was scared or Ducking. Simply comparing Stipe's career vs Fedor's. IMO Stipe > Fedor as a HW all time. Both are great but I feel what Stipe accomplished had a much higher level of difficulty. It is subjective for certain but just how I see it.

You're inflating the "difficulty" considering how Stipe never beat an all time great HW in their prime.

Stipes best wins come over HWs who were in their late 30s who either retired immediately after he fought them or they struggled to go .500 immediately after they fought him.

40 year old DC who retired immediately after

39 year old Werdum who went 4-5 in his next 9.

Green Ngannou who lost to Derrick Lewis in his very next fight. It not a surprise that once Ng improved and had more experience he melted Stipe like nothing.

37 year old Reem who had been knocked out 17 times.

38 year old AA who was well past his prime and never went on another title run again.

Post Cain losses CTE JDS who still beat Stipe the first time and then got creamed by Stipe in the rematch because he was badly washed up.

The "difficulty" of these fights is easy to inflate when you just read them from the paper without giving any context to when these fights happened and WHERE these guys were in their career at the time.

Big Nog beating Barnett, Mirko, Sergei and Werdum in their 20s at the peak of their athleticism is more "difficult" than beating guys in their late 30s with lots of mileage and KOs on their record.

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

Is that Bill Nye next to Trump with Kim Kardasian in the background?!

 

[Barteh]

TBH in their first fight Stipe fought super scared and the fight was still super close, it was that match that made me realize how good was Stipe.

And Ngannou is basically always the same fighter, in their second fights it was Stipe that looked like he was another person.

Funny you look at it that way. I always looked at that fight as the proof that the Cain beatings really took a toll on JDS and that it showed he was truly past his prime.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Stipe beating DC is better than all fedors wins. DC is elite.

Nah you're just young and uninformed and this makes you a low level poster.

DC was a 40 year old, fat blob who was coming off back surgery and had 2.5 rounds of cardio in him before he would gas when he fought Stipe and this version of still knocked Stipe out in the first round the first time they fought. It's no coincidence DC retired immediately after these fights.

Step your MMA knowledge and post game up, son. You're very low level.

 

[Leon Edwards]

Which top competition was Fedor missing in his resume? That he could have fought during his legendary win streak?

Though only guys I could think of that he could have fought if the situation was set up perfectly, would be Couture, Overeem and Brock.

Randy Couture they just couldn't make it happen for some reason. No way Fedor was afraid of him.

Overeem he was set to fight him in Strikeforce if Fedor beat Werdum, but we knew what happened there.

Brock is because the UFC couldn't sign Fedor.

So those are all valid reasons why he didn't fight those 3.

Oh yeah I like to add Josh Barnett, but that was unfortunate what happen there. Would've loved to see Prime Barnett vs. Prime Fedor.

Overeem
DC
Barnett
Werdum
Mir
JDS
Cain


Fedor conveniently avoided some of the best fighters of his era. Medium fish in small pond.

 

[filthybliss]

Legacy wise Fedor, Nog, Werdum and DC ahead of him and perhaps JDS too. All of them have beaten all time great HWs during their prime and that's high on my list.

As far as the match ups I'd take prime Fedor, prime DC, prime JDS, prime Cain and Ubereem over Stipe pretty confidently.

Fights with Nog, Mirko, Barnett and Werdum would be close and could go either way. If they fought Stipe 10x we would probably get mixed results.

I also think peak AA, peak Sergei, peak Alex and peak Rizzo could have beaten Stipe on their best night.

There are some spicy takes. but legacy wise, i can't disagree with those that you mentioned being above him except JDS and Werdum. On paper and in my opinion, those two did more for the sport than Stipe did. But, Stipe's legacy is going to cemented more just because he was faithful to the ufc and dana white marketing.

Matchups, I can get with Prime Fedor, Cain, JDS and its a coin flip between Werdum and Nog.

Reem's a loose cannon, you don't know what you are going to get. The guy was too streaky for me to say he beats Stipe in his prime. He'll beat Brock Lesnar and then lose to fucking Travis Browne and Ben Rothwell.

Love me some Cro-cop but he's too small. If randleman snag a win off him in his prime, its hard for me to see him beating stipe more 2/10. Barnett has a losing record against cro-cop, I think Stipe's hands would overwhelm him.

People like Volkov/Rizzo/Pav all have like Derrick Lewis probability beating him so maybe? its HW after all