How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

[Bobby Boulders]

Landmark 9 was alright, 7/10. The big name fights were good, first few prelims those dudes fought hard.

I did see horiguchi / pettis, pretty damn crazy! It seems like Rizin has fully acquired Archuletta, it is interesting that they're giving Pettis a shot. And agreed, awesome to see this level of co-promotion, it's way better this way. I'm like you, I will give Rizin my money, because MMA was/is better with a premier Japanese organization. It's the only way we get to see these kinds of fights, the ruleset, the respect, the level of prestige that it deserves, etc. Hoping for a legitimate open weight class tournament one of these days in the future. Kim Soo Chul is coming back too, he's a legit Korean fighter from Road FC.

I'm digging the Japan vs Korea theme on that card coming up. They're making their moves in a very calculated fashion. It's easier to have cards with international flavor when the foreigners are from locales closer to your own time zone, more foreigners will tune in. Koreans, Buakaw, possibly Manny (I'm kinda not holding my breath for that one, though, they've been talking about it for like 2 or 3 years now)... Its pretty wild to think that back on NYE 2018, a lot of us thought that they'd blown everything they had on Floyd and were going under, and it has proven to be the opposite. That was kinda the turning point for them, and they've made moves like Bobby Fischer ever since. In Sakakibara we trust.

 

[moreorless87]

I'm not bearing dismissive. Its just that understand the difference between beating an all time great HW when they're at their best and in their 20s and beating an all time great HW when they're 40 years old and well past their prime.

Fedor had 23 fights in his first 4 years and became world champion by beating an all time great HW twice when he was in his 20s and at his best and out classing everyone else who was a contender. That's how many fights Stipe has in 14 years! Stipe was getting knocked out by Stefan Struve 3 years into is career.

After Fedor became the HW champion he won his next consecutive 18 fights. In those 18 fights he beat Big Nog, Mirko, Arlovski when they were at their absolute peaks and in their 20s. He also beat peak momentum Randleman who was coming off a KO win over Mirko in the span. Not to mention he also beat guys like Sylvia and Hunt in those 18 fights too and Mark Coleman who got a fight with Fedor because he had just beaten top 5 P4P Shogun.

Stipe beat a 39 year old Werdum who went 4-5 in his next 9 fights and the average age of his next 10 opponents was damn near 40 years old.

You'd have to be so biased and dismissive to not understand the significance of this.

Stipe is still an all time great. His list of wins still looks amazing and has good wins on it but only a UFC fanboy would say his body of work was superior to Fedors. It's almost like beating fighters in their prime means nothing.

I do personally think the Struve fight shows you the issues Stipe might face if he'd fought in Fedor's era, at that point he was really trying to beat Struve in a technical kickboxing match and he simply couldnt, he was getting outlanded in the 2nd round and beaten up well before the claimed eye poke and the finish.

The latter Stipe's sucess I think tended to be built on going after opponents weaknesses very aggressively, chase down Reem and JDS because they do not like being pushed back, take Hunt down and tire him out, wait for Werdum to take a risk standing as he often did, go after Cormier weakness to bodyshots, etc.

There would have been some potential for that kind of thing back in the day as well but I think less so as you had both younger fighters and better rounded ones. I feel Stipe if he looked to bullrusk in that era would be at a big risk of getting KOed, I mean he was already dropped by Reem, JDS and Francis when he pushed forward and I think in the mid 00's you had a lot of guys who could do that and who didnt have an obvious grappling weakness, heck even Hunt would not be as easy to tire out back then as an aged version taking a short notice fight was.

Stipe did well in his era but honestly head to head against the best HW's ever I don't think he would be top 5.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

I'm digging the Japan vs Korea theme on that card coming up. They're making their moves in a very calculated fashion. It's easier to have cards with international flavor when the foreigners are from locales closer to your own time zone, more foreigners will tune in. Koreans, Buakaw, possibly Manny (I'm kinda not holding my breath for that one, though, they've been talking about it for like 2 or 3 years now)... Its pretty wild to think that back on NYE 2018, a lot of us thought that they'd blown everything they had on Floyd and were going under, and it has proven to be the opposite. That was kinda the turning point for them, and they've made moves like Bobby Fischer ever since. In Sakakibara we trust.

100% man, agree on everything you just wrote. the Korea vs Japan rivalry is strong and I'm pumped up af for those three matches. DEEP did something similar where they did a DEEP vs Black Combat (korean league) event and it was pretty damn awesome to watch. You know those dudes don't want to lose to each other. 100% bragging rights. I hope they do way more Korea vs Japan cards in the future. love that shit. and agree, they've been hyping up Manny for years now! lol. I'm so glad Rizin has gotten through the initial slump, at first I was like shit, this is over before it even started. Sakakibara is a pure genius, able to acquire serious international and home grown talent. Just seeing Jiri's success, Manel Kape's success in the UFC proves this man knows what he's doing. Ami Aliakbari doing pretty good in ONE too. I think the Asakura bros might be doing some PFL events soon? It's a great time to be a MMA fan again as these orgs gain notoriety, there is easier access to watch the events, and leagues are willing to co-promote again. If only HDNET fights was still a channel showing these events for ease of access. One of these days the pilgrimage to Saitama must be made.

 

[trendnick]

Each combatant must be evaluated within the context of the era in which they competed. This serves as a critical reference point that must be adhered to; failing to do so renders any comparison or judgment fundamentally flawed.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

100% man, agree on everything you just wrote. the Korea vs Japan rivalry is strong and I'm pumped up af for those three matches. DEEP did something similar where they did a DEEP vs Black Combat (korean league) event and it was pretty damn awesome to watch. You know those dudes don't want to lose to each other. 100% bragging rights. I hope they do way more Korea vs Japan cards in the future. love that shit. and agree, they've been hyping up Manny for years now! lol. I'm so glad Rizin has gotten through the initial slump, at first I was like shit, this is over before it even started. Sakakibara is a pure genius, able to acquire serious international and home grown talent. Just seeing Jiri's success, Manel Kape's success in the UFC proves this man knows what he's doing. Ami Aliakbari doing pretty good in ONE too. I think the Asakura bros might be doing some PFL events soon? It's a great time to be a MMA fan again as these orgs gain notoriety, there is easier access to watch the events, and leagues are willing to co-promote again. If only HDNET fights was still a channel showing these events for ease of access. One of these days the pilgrimage to Saitama must be made.

So, I learned recently that I may actually be able to go to Japan. I'm going to have to continue researching, to make sure the means is still working for people, but Reddit has a thread full of felons who simply marked "no" on the entry questionnaire, when it asks if they've ever been in trouble, and Japan is like, "Cool, come on in." If you ever make that pilgrimage, we can meet up for NYE or something, and post here about our adventures, which would no doubt be legendary. You're about the only person here who I believe without a doubt is about this shit as much as I am, would be an honor to share that experience with you.

I hadn't heard about the Asakuras possibly fighting in PFL, but it kinda makes sense. I think Sak's meeting with Dana a while back didn't go as planned, probably money matters, so he must have had conversations with Davis afterward. Sefo is no stranger to Japan, probably made those talks pretty easy. I like it.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

So, I learned recently that I may actually be able to go to Japan. I'm going to have to continue researching, to make sure the means is still working for people, but Reddit has a thread full of felons who simply marked "no" on the entry questionnaire, when it asks if they've ever been in trouble, and Japan is like, "Cool, come on in." If you ever make that pilgrimage, we can meet up for NYE or something, and post here about our adventures, which would no doubt be legendary. You're about the only person here who I believe without a doubt is about this shit as much as I am, would be an honor to share that experience with you.

I hadn't heard about the Asakuras possibly fighting in PFL, but it kinda makes sense. I think Sak's meeting with Dana a while back didn't go as planned, probably money matters, so he must have had conversations with Davis afterward. Sefo is no stranger to Japan, probably made those talks pretty easy. I like it.

Haha, I've seen those same threads. for what it's worth, I know someone who did the same. but they had a charge that was dropped down to a non-felony. so technically no felony for them. I'd be 100% down to meet up and make the journey. I know some good bars in the Kabukicho area, always a good time with the locals. That would be epic af!!!!
And I think the one of the Asakuras might actually make a UFC debut, because you're right Sak met with Dana recently. I think that was one of the rumors I saw, but who knows if that will pan out. I remember when their were talks of letting Matt Hughes go to PRIDE's LW tournament and PRIDE was supposed to send over Sakuraba and Timura or something like that, but that obviously never panned out.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Haha, I've seen those same threads. for what it's worth, I know someone who did the same. but they had a charge that was dropped down to a non-felony. so technically no felony for them. I'd be 100% down to meet up and make the journey. I know some good bars in the Kabukicho area, always a good time with the locals. That would be epic af!!!!
And I think the one of the Asakuras might actually make a UFC debut, because you're right Sak met with Dana recently. I think that was one of the rumors I saw, but who knows if that will pan out. I remember when their were talks of letting Matt Hughes go to PRIDE's LW tournament and PRIDE was supposed to send over Sakuraba and Timura or something like that, but that obviously never panned out.

I am pretty deep into the Like a Dragon series, so I know the layout of Kabukicho like the back of my hand lmao. This is gonna happen. Might need to put some money back for a year or two, so I can have the time of my life, try to make it coincide with the release of a Godzilla movie.

I think Kai does well in the UFC. Idk that he'd do well enough to contend, but he's open to training with anyone, and if he can get the foreign training partners he's been seeking, he might progress pretty far. He's got the star quality the UFC wants, he'd just need to win.

 

[Quadrillion]

Fedor is the best we've seen imo.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

I am pretty deep into the Like a Dragon series, so I know the layout of Kabukicho like the back of my hand lmao. This is gonna happen. Might need to put some money back for a year or two, so I can have the time of my life, try to make it coincide with the release of a Godzilla movie.

I think Kai does well in the UFC. Idk that he'd do well enough to contend, but he's open to training with anyone, and if he can get the foreign training partners he's been seeking, he might progress pretty far. He's got the star quality the UFC wants, he'd just need to win.

hahaha hell yea dude. i started like a dragon not too long ago, good shit. i know the golden alley bars and we can kick it with some of the bartenders. got my favorite bars. totally down, next NYE! should get a sherdog crew going, that would be epic AF! sherdog t shirts and our AVs on them, hahaha.
I think Kai would do well too, obvoiusly can't throw him in with the big dogs right away, but he's def got the stand up skills to stand toe to toe with them. but knowing the UFC they'll match him up with some dagestani wrestler type lol.
WAR RIZIN, NYE 2025 LETS GO

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

I do personally think the Struve fight shows you the issues Stipe might face if he'd fought in Fedor's era, at that point he was really trying to beat Struve in a technical kickboxing match and he simply couldnt, he was getting outlanded in the 2nd round and beaten up well before the claimed eye poke and the finish.

The latter Stipe's sucess I think tended to be built on going after opponents weaknesses very aggressively, chase down Reem and JDS because they do not like being pushed back, take Hunt down and tire him out, wait for Werdum to take a risk standing as he often did, go after Cormier weakness to bodyshots, etc.

There would have been some potential for that kind of thing back in the day as well but I think less so as you had both younger fighters and better rounded ones. I feel Stipe if he looked to bullrusk in that era would be at a big risk of getting KOed, I mean he was already dropped by Reem, JDS and Francis when he pushed forward and I think in the mid 00's you had a lot of guys who could do that and who didnt have an obvious grappling weakness, heck even Hunt would not be as easy to tire out back then as an aged version taking a short notice fight was.

Stipe did well in his era but honestly head to head against the best HW's ever I don't think he would be top 5.

Agreed and no shame in that.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Fedors record was too padded he fought in such a different weak era and when Fedor came up against semi modern MMA fighters he got beaten badly and could not hang

Semi modern MMA fighters like Werdum and Hendo, two guys who were literally in Pride and nowhere near as successful there as Fedor was lol.


Fedor is to this day, next to Jones, probably the most all round skilled HW ever. Hes also maybe the fastest. He makes most "modern" HWs look like sloppy sluggish brawlers. So yes, he was elite.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

You don't spend the majority of 20 minutes standing with Pride cro cop and do well enough to have Mirko on his back foot the majority of the time and not be elite skilled.

 

[mjfan23]

your a troll because u cant even defend your boy fedor
ive seen u post i thought u where like a child
posting nonsense

ive seen you contradict yourself so many times
like its fair in pride because they all use roids

but when i call fedor a roider you just reply
they all are ped abusers

the only one not using is fedor

are u a child in a mans body?

Man are you ever obsessed with me!!?!

Peds in pride: level playing field for all.

Pico jones having an exemption while his opponents don’t, is not a level playing field.

 

[JBJisGOAT14]

Fedor and Jon Jones have the exact same number of zero win fighters on their records... literally the exact same.

Every fighter has zero win fighters on their record because that's who you fight when you begin fighting.

Forget about the fact that other than Nogueira there is nobody that has fought more UFC HW champions than Fedor. Werdum, for example, fought at HW for 21 years and fought two less UFC HW champions than Fedor did (three less than Nogueira). Stipe also has fought two less UFC HW champions than Fedor has (three less than Nogueira).

Some of this shit you people believe isnt even factual.

Yawn. There also several 1-3 fighters on there if you want to split hairs. Jones resume is elite compared to the can crusher Fedors.

 

[Dr Guildo]

Fedor is the best we've seen imo.

This. Most complete fighter ever and doing it at the top division.

 

[Taric]

Yawn. There also several 1-3 fighters on there if you want to split hairs. Jones resume is elite compared to the can crusher Fedors.

Fedor's 2nd fight and 3rd fight are against one win fighters... because that's who you fight when you begin your MMA career. You fight regional fighters just like everybody else because you yourself are a nobody like your opponents are.

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

Overeem
DC
Barnett
Werdum
Mir
JDS
Cain


Fedor conveniently avoided some of the best fighters of his era. Medium fish in small pond.

He was suppose to fight Overeem, but it just didn't work out. It was slated to go but he lost to Bigfoot in the Strikeforce HW tourney.

DC would have fought Fedor to, if it wasn't for Fedor losing badly to Bigfoot.

Barnett screwed up that fight with Fedor. It was ready to go.

Fedor fought Werdum.

Fedor fought Mir.

JDS and Cain are both in the UFC, hard to fight guys when you are not signed with that promotion.

There is nothing convenient of him avoiding anyone, it was just a matter of unfortunate circumstances.

Do you honestly think he was afraid to fight these guys?

 

[Dirty Frank]

But Khabib thooughhhh!!!

 

[Chayanne]

Fedor was the smallest and lightest heavyweight. all he did was on techniques his ko power. That's why he's the goat for me

 

[JBJisGOAT14]

Fedor's 2nd fight and 3rd fight are against onw win fighters... because that's who you fight when you begin your MMA career. You fight regional fighters just like everybody else because you yourself are a nobody like your opponents are.

Full stop he fought an 0-1 fighter when he was 17-1. His resume has been exposed over and over. He was a good fighter but not a god like some of these nut jobs think he was.