How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

ermac88 said:
Fedor provided entertainment in Pride

When he faced a 40 year old MW in Dan Henderson he was knocked out cold.

Imagine any HW getting knocked out by a MW in their 40s

Thats all you need to know.
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🐀
 
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Fedor was just….fucking fearless man.
His mission was to hurt you, while his facial expression didn’t change even if you through him on his head
 
In that era yeah, in today's standards he is average
 
JBJisGOAT14 said:
Again, resume is great for fighting fake pro wrasslers, taxi drivers, 0-1, 0-3. 1-2, 1-3, etc. it’s not something to understand or not, it’s pretty black and white. He has a lot of wins but some of those wins came against absolute nobodies and washed fighters. He got pounded when he stepped up. Come again sir!
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To address you're "pounded when he stepped up" just shows you don't understand this topic and have no clue what you're talking about. Fedor fought a high level of competition from the start of his career and up and until fight Fabrcio Werdum, he beat everyone. Fighting opponents like Sobral early on and then Herring, Shilt, Big Nog, Cro Cop, Coleman, Arlovski, Sylvia is stepping up. These are top fighters and former world champs.

But eventually, eveyrone loses and Fedor lost. And it's nothing do with his competition getting stronger or him being out of his prime, he lost because those guys were better in that fight. When a fighter consistently fights top competition, they're bound to lose eventually. His supporters say he was out of his prime, his critics say the competition got better. Neither are right, he lost cause he lost plain and simple.

Now on to your other point about him fight opponents with 0-1, 0-3 records. Again this comment just shows how don't understand what you're talking about. Fedor fought a few opponents with records like that when he himeself was 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 3-0. This was at the start of his mma career. You have to be really biased to use this against him. No mma fighter starts to fight elite competition from the start of their career. Fact of the matter is that in his first 10 mma fights, most of Fedors opponents were more experienced than he was with far more fights. Sobral was 19-2 at the time.

Once you get into Pride and when he became a top HW himself, he fought pretty top competition consistenly. Look at his next 25 fights from the start of his Pride carrer to end of SF. Majority ranked opponents and top fighters.

You have a few opponents in there like Nagata, Choi, Zulu which is 3 fights. These were fights that were fought on big NYE events and had nothing to do with him as Pride champ. They were showecase fights that the Japanese promotions put on for show, they were more exhibtions than anything that paid big money. You bring up his fights with Nagata and compare that to todays mma. Whole different time and mma scene. Fedor fought Nagata because he got a massive pay from K1. All these fights were all on NYE and only put on for ratings and the Japanese fan base. You can't use these fights against him as he streamrolled these guys and they only added to his resume. It's like he was fighting them instead of actual top HWs when under conract.

See the thing is that to discusss Fedor you need two things. 1, be completely unbaised one way or the other. 2, have a good understand and actually watch the sport back then. You have neither, do that's why you just dont get it.

I myself regard Fedor very high and skills wise one of the greatest HWs of all time. And note I said one of, becuase I wouldn't say Fedor is better than Stipe, Cormier, Cain. Fedor is the greatest HW based on accomplishments and winning streak. But do I think he beats every HW and is better, no way. I would put him skills wise top 3. I don't even have Fedor in my top 3 fighters of all time. That is Jones, Anderson and GSP
 
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JKS said:
To address you're "pounded when he stepped up" just shows you don't understand this topic and have no clue what you're talking about. Fedor fought a high level of competition from the start of his career and up and until fight Fabrcio Werdum, he beat everyone. Fighting opponents like Sobral early on and then Herring, Shilt, Big Nog, Cro Cop, Coleman, Arlovski, Sylvia is stepping up. These are top fighters and former world champs.

But eventually, eveyrone loses and Fedor lost. And it's nothing do with his competition getting stronger or him being out of his prime, he lost because those guys were better in that fight. When a fighter consistently fights top competition, they're bound to lose eventually. His supporters say he was out of his prime, his critics say the competition got better. Neither are right, he lost cause he lost plain and simple.

Now on to your other point about him fight opponents with 0-1, 0-3 records. Again this comment just shows how don't understand what you're talking about. Fedor fought a few opponents with records like that when he himeself was 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 3-0. This was at the start of his mma career. You have to be really biased to use this against him. No mma fighter starts to fight elite competition from the start of their career. Fact of the matter is that in his first 10 mma fights, most of Fedors opponents were more experienced than he was with far more fights. Sobral was 19-2 at the time.

Once you get into Pride and when he became a top HW himself, he fought pretty top competition consistenly. Look at his next 25 fights from the start of his Pride carrer to end of SF. Majority ranked opponents and top fighters.

You have a few opponents in there like Nagata, Choi, Zulu which is 3 fights. These were fights that were fought on big NYE events and had nothing to do with him as Pride champ. They were showecase fights that the Japanese promotions put on for show, they were more exhibtions than anything that paid big money. You bring up his fights with Nagata and compare that to todays mma. Whole different time and mma scene. Fedor fought Nagata because he got a massive pay from K1. All these fights were all on NYE and only put on for ratings and the Japanese fan base. You can't use these fights against him as he streamrolled these guys and they only added to his resume. It's like he was fighting them instead of actual top HWs when under conract.

See the thing is that to discusss Fedor you need two things. 1, be completely unbaised one way or the other. 2, have a good understand and actually watch the sport back then. You have neither, do that's why you just dont get it.

I myself regard Fedor very high and skills wise one of the greatest HWs of all time. And note I said one of, becuase I wouldn't say Fedor is better than Stipe, Cormier, Cain. Fedor is the greatest HW based on accomplishments and winning streak. But do I think he beats every HW and is better, no way. I would put him skills wise top 3. I don't even have Fedor in my top 3 fighters of all time. That is Jones, Anderson and GSP
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I would argue when your looking at fighters careers as well Japanese MMA vs the modern day can be a bit swings and roundabouts.

In Japan fighters tended to have some gimmie or mid level matches after they'd hit the top BUT they tended to hit the top much faster, a lot of modern MMA fighters they can end up spending 3-4 years in smaller orgs fighting lower level opponents. In Japan fighters were often facing higher level comp much earlier in their careers.

Added to that of course the fighters in Japan tended to stay significantly more active during their peak years and ultimately KOing Nagata is better than sitting on your ass doing nothing.
 
moreorless87 said:
I would argue when your looking at fighters careers as well Japanese MMA vs the modern day can be a bit swings and roundabouts.

In Japan fighters tended to have some gimmie or mid level matches after they'd hit the top BUT they tended to hit the top much faster, a lot of modern MMA fighters they can end up spending 3-4 years in smaller orgs fighting lower level opponents. In Japan fighters were often facing higher level comp much earlier in their careers.

Added to that of course the fighters in Japan tended to stay significantly more active during their peak years and ultimately KOing Nagata is better than sitting on your ass doing nothing.
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No doubt.
 
He had great grappling, power, and timing, which is always a good recipe for success in fighting.

He also wasn't invincible or some masterful tactitician like his fans will try and have you believe.
 
dipstickjimmy said:
"Figures don't Lie but Liars can figure."
Kenny Florian

Fedor fought in a completely different era. Many of his opponents had glaring holes in their game. Schlit and Hunt were pure kickboxers for example. Royce Gracie was amazing when nobody else had BJJ. Title defenses? Defended Pride 3 times but fought 8 times. Defended WAMMA 2x but one was Brett Rogers!!!

Stipe and Fedor fought in completely different Eras and IMO what Fedor did was amazing. What he did Stipe may not have been able to do. Winning 16 in a row, a NC and then 11 in a row is hard to do. Maybe even head to head Fedor would beat Stipe. However Denis Hallman beat Matt Hughes twice. Did he have the better career?

Fedor never did what Stipe did. Fight top competition, fighting top competition CONSISTENTLY. Show me where Stipe is fighting cans? Fedor started judo and sambo as a child so his MMA transition was easy with Sambo being virtually MMA. Stipe was playing baseball at the age Fedor was already in combat sports. Fedor never fought consistenly against top level MMA fighters and when he did he lost. At age 34 Fedor lost to Werdum, Bigfoot and MW Dan Henderson. At the same age Stipe KO's Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum, Overeem & JDS in a row. Then beat Francis in a 5 round domination. Show me a streak in Fedor's resume that compares?
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Rogers was undefeated when Fedor beat him and had just knocked out arlovski. Lol @ acting like that wasn't a good win.
 
Leon Edwards said:
How good was Fedor?

I have a hard time genuinely believing that Fedor is truly elite and up there with goats such as

GSP
Anderson
MM
Jones
DC

Fedors record was too padded he fought in such a different weak era and when Fedor came up against semi modern MMA fighters he got beaten badly and could not hang

Some say that he could not hang because of his age. I do not believe this one bit. The real issue was he came up against modern MMA fighters. Isn't is such a coincidence he only started to lose once he faced true elite HWs and all of a sudden he was "out of his prime."

Anderson wrecked Hendo, Fedor a HW got wrecked by Hendo.

Werdum stopped Fedor

And I believe prime Fedor would lose to

Poatan
Anderson
Cain
DC
Aspinal
Gane
Nganu
Black Beast
Jones
Overseen


Fedor has such a padded record and had huge holes in his game

Fedor had poor Boxing, poor fight IQ, poor bottom game. Jones would take him down and elbow him to oblivion.

Fedor was a good fighter but should not be compared to the true elite.

Fedor's myth is more folk lore and myth. His best wins are Cro cop and Nog. Cro cop and nog are good but have glaring holes in their game.
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All heavyweights have glaring holes in their games
 
Kyojiro Kagenuma said:
You say that as if Dan Henderson isn't one of the best to ever do it.

He was far out of his prime in Bellator my man.
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Hendo is older than Fedor... With the same amount of fights.

So younger Fedor lost to older, smaller hendo. Stop reaching.

Hendo has accomplished more than fedor
 
Leon Edwards said:
Hendo is older than Fedor... With the same amount of fights.

So younger Fedor lost to older, smaller hendo. Stop reaching.

Hendo has accomplished more than fedor
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You're the one reaching, dumbass. You're trying to sit here and tell people Fedor wasn't elite.

You're the dumbass shertard of the week.
 
TadDunbar said:
Yeah and was quickly finished
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As was everyone who fought Overeem at that time.
Incidentally, that Brett Rogers fight is Overeem’s sole defense of the Strikeforce HW title, and yet I don’t recall the last time I heard someone dog on him for it. Rogers was one of 5 total HW title defenses for Fedor, but he gets shit on for it all the time for some reason.
 
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