How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

[Ludwig von Mises]

Now do Pereira.

Pereira lost to Jan Blachowicz.

 

[moreorless87]

Now do Pereira.

He obviously doesnt have that career path in MMA although you could argue his kickboxing career followed it somewhat.

Izzys kickboxing and then his MMA career I think both followed it, the more modern path of years of lesser fights then mostly big fights.

 

[Dr Guildo]

Imagine sitting for days trying to discredit Fedor and his legacy on a forum.

Sure you can have your opinion on if he was the best or not but to question if he was elite is just shameful.

Few fighters, if anyone, have given as much to this sport as Fedor and he did it for a looong time while also doing combat sambo. Never trying to win on points, always fearless, being an absolute gentleman outside of fighting. He continued long after his prime, dont giving a f*** if he might lose or trying to protect a legacy.

Shame on you.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

there is no fighter to live that came close to what he accomplished...not one. maybe gsp.

 

[JKS]

The current HW champion is Jon Jones and the interim champion is Tom Aspinall.

So that's about the most asinine statement of all time.

Jon Jones being HW champ if anything shows exactly that HW has not evolved lol. Jon is not some new evolved fighter that sprung out in recent years. He started in the UFC 16 years ago and became champ 13 years ago. Jon has certain improved as a fighter over the years, but Jon is a fighter from an earlier era of mma and he was able to come in at HW and win the belt in 2 mins over a supposed next level HW lol.

Aspinal is a phenomenal talent and well rounded, but he's not anything that we haven't seen in HWs 10-15 years ago. And he's really the only impressive one in recent years.

HW has not evolved by any means. If you take the best HWs from the UFC and Pride from 2004 to 2010 and compare then to now it would be laughable skills wise. It's not even comparable. It's the only division in mma where this has happened.

 

[markg171]

Jon Jones being HW champ if anything shows exactly that HW has not evolved lol. Jon is not some new evolved fighter that sprung out in recent years. He started in the UFC 16 years ago and became champ 13 years ago. Jon has certain improved as a fighter over the years, but Jon is a fighter from an earlier era of mma and he was able to come in at HW and win the belt in 2 mins over a supposed next level HW lol.

Aspinal is a phenomenal talent and well rounded, but he's not anything that we haven't seen in HWs 10-15 years ago. And he's really the only impressive one in recent years.

HW has not evolved by any means. If you take the best HWs from the UFC and Pride from 2004 to 2010 and compare then to now it would be laughable skills wise. It's not even comparable. It's the only division in mma where this has happened.

Jon and Tom are two of the least conventional fighters imaginable.

To pretend like we're still living in the standard wrestler boxer days or whatever norm is pure fiction by nostalgics. It's exactly why they're champs and dispatched conventional guys like Gane and Pav so easily.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Fedor's career started earlier than Stipe's. This isn't hard dude. You have to evaluate fighter age within the context of when they started and how long they were in it. You can't just say "look at who these guys fought at X age". If you want to compare who they fought at 33 then you all need to look at who they fought at 23. At 23 years old Stipe was 4 years away from his first pro fight. At 23 years old Fedor was fighting Takada, Arona, Kohsakha and others. It's so unbelievably brain dead to say "look at who both these guys fought at 33" and then completely failing to mention when their careers started.

You skipped the lengthy back and forth I have posted. Its stupid for you to jump in and in the middle or rather the end want me to rehash it all.

Fedor was great. IMO What Stipe had done is something Fedor could never have done. We will never know. What we do know is you claimed Rogers was "A good win" when he in fact was a CAN.

As I said Stipe fought an escalating level competition and then fought top competition CONSISTENTLY once he was at the top. Fedor did not. Not saying he ducked or anything as his early career was similar to Royce Gracie in that he was levels ahead of his competition. Many of his opponents had GLARING holes in their game. Pure kickboxers, pure wrestlers etc. Gracie fought guys who didn't have a clue what BJJ was so of course he looked amazing. Fedor was well rounded before anyone else. Stipe was fighting competition that were far more well rounded and he fought opponents who were at the top level. No Brett Rogers', no MWs like Linland or Henderson, no Japanese "Cans", no Freakshow Giants like HMC.

 

[JKS]

Jon and Tom are two of the least conventional fighters imaginable.

To pretend like we're still living in the standard wrestler boxer days or whatever norm is pure fiction by nostalgics. It's exactly why they're champs and dispatched conventional guys like Gane and Pav so easily.

The whole point is about the HW division of now compared to 10-15 years ago. And that current HWs of today aren't as skilled or evolved as the ones from the prior eras. You're bringing up Jon and Tom to prove your point, but then you contradict yourself by mentioning Gane and Pav who also new HWs of this era and one dimensional. You can't just pick and choose what suits your argument. Look at the crop of top HWs the last 5-7years to enter the UFC. Tom, Pav, Gane, Blaydes, Almeida, Rozenstruik, Romanov. You're really gonna argue these guys are more evolved and skilled than the HWs from 2004 to 2010/2012?

And the point stand with Jon. He's not some evolved HW of this generation. He's a fighter that gained his success in the early 2010s. He is not any indiciton of the HW division being more evolved than the decades prior.

Like I said, HW is the only division that has gone backwards. Every other division has evolved and some drastically.

 

[Superior]

The current HW champion is Jon Jones and the interim champion is Tom Aspinall.

So that's about the most asinine statement of all time.

Prime Fedor > both

It’s ok, you never saw him his prime.

 

[markg171]

And the point stand with Jon. He's not some evolved HW of this generation. He's a fighter that gained his success in the early 2010s. He is not any indiciton of the HW division being more evolved than the decades prior.

You're saying things haven't evolved because the current champion is a guy who was an enormous evolution at the time that's literally still successful to today.

This is just so sad and beyond ridiculous.

 

[Superior]

Jon and Tom are two of the least conventional fighters imaginable.

To pretend like we're still living in the standard wrestler boxer days or whatever norm is pure fiction by nostalgics. It's exactly why they're champs and dispatched conventional guys like Gane and Pav so easily.

This is self-ownage at its finest.

Thank you.

 

[markg171]

This is self-ownage at its finest.

Thank you.

The sport hasn't evolved because the current champion is the guy who last evolved the sport onwards from when you're saying it hasn't evolved from.

Y'all are sad.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

The sport hasn't evolved because the current champion is the guy who last evolved the sport onwards from when you're saying it hasn't evolved from.

Y'all are sad.

The HW division hasn't evolved enough dismiss the elites from 2004-2014.

Aspinal and Jones aren't more well rounded than Fedor or Cain.

Gane isn't more evolved than Mirko. In fact he's lower level as a kick boxer.

Pavlovich isn't more evolved than Sergei or Aleks. Just another big Russian puncher.

Almeida isn't more evolved than Werdum or Nog.

Blaydes nearly lost to 46 year old Mark Hunt lol


Evolution is a term thrown around by UFC geeks just to rationalize the dismissal of the previous eras.

 

[markg171]

Aspinal and Jones aren't more well rounded than Fedor or Cain.

Holy smokes that's delusional

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

You skipped the lengthy back and forth I have posted. Its stupid for you to jump in and in the middle or rather the end want me to rehash it all.

Fedor was great. IMO What Stipe had done is something Fedor could never have done. We will never know. What we do know is you claimed Rogers was "A good win" when he in fact was a CAN.

As I said Stipe fought an escalating level competition and then fought top competition CONSISTENTLY once he was at the top. Fedor did not. Not saying he ducked or anything as his early career was similar to Royce Gracie in that he was levels ahead of his completion. Many of his opponents had GLARING holes in their game. Pure kickboxers, pure wrestlers etc. Gracie fought guys who didn't have a clue what BJJ was so of course he looked amazing. Fedor was well rounded before anyone else. Stipe was fighting competition that were far more well rounded and he fought opponents who were at the top level. No Brett Rogers', no MWs like Linland or Henderson, no Japanese "Cans", no Freakshow Giants like HMC.

You're probably not someone who has ever trained or experienced the intensity if combat and thus you think a 40 year old with 16 losses by KO is better competition than an all time great HW in their 20s/ early 30s and at their physical peak. That's why you list Stipes wins over old ass AA as a great win but describe Rogers win over AA in his 20s as a win over a guy with a "glass jaw"

Just admit you're a biased UFC fanboy with limited or non existent real life experience.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Holy smokes that's delusional

Nah you're just a UFC fanboy with ridiculous bias.

 

[Leon Edwards]

Fedor probably has the fastest hands at HW, maybe outside of his brother. Even against Rampage he was fast as fuck. Problem is that today's HWs are much bigger than they was back then. With a proper diet, Fedor could be a MW. Same with DC. Shows how great both really were to dominate at HW like they did, to a lesser extent with DC. I think if Fedor came up in today's game, he would still be elite, though like I said, would be a MW or LHW with a proper diet. That speed translates across dimensions and galaxies.

DC would beat fedor easily.

 

[markg171]

Nah you're just a UFC fanboy with ridiculous bias.

Yes it's totally "UFC fanboy bias" to say that Jon Jones and Tom Aspinall are more well rounded than Cain. Who was a UFC fighter himself.

Like I said, holy smokes you're delusional.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

DC would beat fedor easily.

DC couldn't beat a 41 year Anderon Silva easily but he'd beat 27 year old Fedor "easily"

You're just a little kid.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Yes it's totally "UFC fanboy bias" to say that Jon Jones and Tom Aspinall are more well rounded than Cain. Who was a UFC fighter himself.

Like I said, holy smokes you're delusional.

Fedor beat elite K1 strikers on the feet, was on the Russian National judo team and threw up armlocks from his back like nothing and had incredible GnP and insane endurance.

Cain beat prime JDS standing, was a D1 wrestler and BJJ black belt with brutal GnP and 5 rounds of endurance.

Acting like today's version of Jones who arguably lost to Reyes or Aspinal are vastly superior and more evolved than peak Fedor and peak Cain is laughable and ridiculous.

I'd say they're all pretty equally well rounded in their own unique way. You just can't handle it. Cope.