How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

[Doomer]

Poatan is literally fighting in UFC at its weakest ever and he is already on some list as among the best? Puffff

 

[JRY82]

He's the goat, so pretty good

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

I'm not being dismissive. Its just that I understand the difference between beating an all time great HW when they're at their best and in their 20s and beating an all time great HW when they're 40 years old and well past their prime.

HWs aren't at their best in their 20s though. A lot of the Pride legends fell off in their early 30s as the sport around them progressed rapidly. This doesn't fit the established MMA aging curve at all.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

HWs aren't at their best in their 20s though. A lot of the Pride legends fell off in their early 30s as the sport around them progressed rapidly. This doesn't fit the established MMA aging curve at all.

Athletes are the best in their 20s. Don't fall for the UFC psyop making fanboys believe HWs are at their best in their 40s to make their washed up division look better.

 

[moreorless87]

HWs aren't at their best in their 20s though. A lot of the Pride legends fell off in their early 30s as the sport around them progressed rapidly. This doesn't fit the established MMA aging curve at all.

Interesting that people only seem to take this view with ex Pride fighters, that people like say GSP, Cain or JDS might have dropped off in their mid 30's or before seems to be accepted by only ex Pride guys either got "out evolved" or "depended on PEDS".

I would argue HW in the mid/late 2010's tended to have a lot of older fighters(maybe of them ex Pride fighters) because it was actually a division in decline and it was possible for decaling big names to remain competitive as the standard dropped.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Interesting that people only seem to take this view with ex Pride fighters, that people like say GSP, Cain or JDS might have dropped off in their mid 30's or before seems to be accepted by only ex Pride guys either got "out evolved" or "depended on PEDS".

I would argue HW in the mid/late 2010's tended to have a lot of older fighters(maybe of them ex Pride fighters) because it was actually a division in decline and it was possible for decaling big names to remain competitive as the standard dropped.

Only a UFC stan fan boy would be dumb enough to get pysopped into thinking that world class athletes aren't at their best in their 20s. Anything to keep the shill campaign going I suppose.

 

[moreorless87]

Only a UFC stan fan boy would be dumb enough to get pysopped into thinking that world class athletes aren't at their best in their 20s. Anything to keep the shill campaign going I suppose.

The ironic thing of course is that Pride fighters who declined at that age have claimes it was down to a "lack of PEDs" yet I would argue argue "well preserved" fighters tend to have a VERY dodgy record when it comes to PEDs.

Fedor never caught on anything were as Randy, Hendo, Vitor, Reem, Werdum, Anderson, etc all either on TRT or failed tests(or both).

Personally I always suspected that PED use was far heavier on the US MMA scene than elsewere, you had some fighters(again mostly americans) who looked very heavy roided in Pride but my guess is actually its the post Pride pre USADA era were PED use was heaviest as more fighters moved to the US.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

The ironic thing of course is that Pride fighters who declined at that age have claimes it was down to a "lack of PEDs" yet I would argue argue "well preserved" fighters tend to have a VERY dodgy record when it comes to PEDs.

Fedor never caught on anything were as Randy, Hendo, Vitor, Reem, Werdum, Anderson, etc all either on TRT or failed tests(or both).

Personally I always suspected that PED use was far heavier on the US MMA scene than elsewere, you had some fighters(again mostly americans) who looked very heavy roided in Pride but my guess is actually its the post Pride pre USADA era were PED use was heaviest as more fighters moved to the US.

Heath Herring had a good take on it in an interview. He said if you were fighting in Japan in a tournament and had to fight multiple times in one night and inured your knee earlier in the night Pride would allow for a doctor to shoot your knee up with cortisone which would allow you to continue fighting in the tournament. Today that would be deemed as a banned substance.

This means that there are levels to PEDs and not everyone who took something is automatically Ubereem. You have guys who will shoot their knee up with cortisone to get through an injury in a tournament but that doesn't mean that they're a Jon Jones/ Ubereem/ TRT Vitor style CHEMIST.

So when it comes to Pride guys like Fedor I'm sure they may have taken the cortisone route or something else to recover from an injury but I don't think Fedor was ever a chemist who abused roids- esp with the limited options and finances he had in those days. He didn't have the resources to get the same science as a prime Ubereem or Vitor.

Fedors body never changed drastically over the years like Ubereems and Vitors and he declined in his early 30s which tells me he wasn't a chemist like them. There is no evidence or eye test that would make you think Fedor was a steroid abuser and chemist. What Herring was describing and what Ubereem/ Jones/ Vitor were at their juicing peak are completely opposite sides of the steroid spectrum.

Too many people think it's black and white but there are levels to this juicing shit.