How strong is "strong enough" for you???
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Sorry, meant to reply to this and forgot about it. The other guys hit the nail on the head. A lot of his form cues are pretty odd too, and he tries to branch into things he probably shouldn't (oly lifting, diet, etc.). I'm also not sure if he's changed his tune a lot either in regards to assistance/bro work.
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I actually can't remember all the details, but he certainly pissed off a lot/all of the US Oly community by saying stuff about Oly lifting. E.g. I think he says that Oly lifters should all squat low bar, and he also says that the correct bar path is dead straight. IIRC he basically says in the latest version of his book that it doesn't really matter that the bar path of all the top lifters is slightly curved or "S" shaped. I think he said other stuff too that pisses them off.
I think he has some weird cues, like in the later versions of his book he teaches that the overhead press you should push your hips forward so the torso tilts back so that the bar can go straight, then pull your hips back once the bar is clear so that your torso straightens again. A lot of people say his explanations of squatting are a bit weird too, but I don't know anything about the fine points of squatting so I can't evaluate that.
He also has some other provocative/crazy views. Like he had an article on T-Nation a while back saying that people shouldn't do conditioning or cardio. I can't even remember why he said that. He wasn't specifically he talking about strength athletes either.
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I was never a fan. We've had a half dozen guys on this very forum that I'd rather train with than him. And a bunch of trainers I'd rather work with. We should have a Top 10 Trainers Thread. The Naudi memorial or something.
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That is certainly very odd and unconventional. I don't think even his mentor, Bill Starr, would agree with this.
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Not an absurb question. As you get stronger you need to invest more effort and more importantly time into training to get stronger. Everybody has to decide where that limit of time is. Are you willing to spend almost all of your leisure time focused on getting stronger? Are you willing to cut back time spent with family, friends or a significant other? Are you willing to increase the risk of injury which inevitably does rise with adding weight to the bar?
There is a limit. Even obsessive assholes like @JimRussel who try to look down at other because they can lift more. (I'm assuming because they have a 3inch Ding Dong or some other insecurity) will have a limit. Truth is most people understand that lifting is ment to supplement life. It is not life.
With that said, its hard to know that limit intill you get there. You can speculate and have a reasonable goal. Then reassess once you get there. Hope that helps TS.
There is a limit. Even obsessive assholes like @JimRussel who try to look down at other because they can lift more. (I'm assuming because they have a 3inch Ding Dong or some other insecurity) will have a limit. Truth is most people understand that lifting is ment to supplement life. It is not life.
With that said, its hard to know that limit intill you get there. You can speculate and have a reasonable goal. Then reassess once you get there. Hope that helps TS.
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Truth is most people never even get close to that limit. Most people are like Kyle and they use this limit as an excuse as to why they never get stronger. Year after year they lift with subpar training methods, use terrible technique, and limit themselves by building up imaginary walls in their mind.
There surely is a bell curve with strength training, and you will see diminishing returns. If you get to a 500+ deadlift, you may find that increasing your deadlift by 10 lbs over the next six months is going to have a negligible effect on your sport. At this point if you quit lifting completely, you will get weaker though, which will have an effect on your sports performance. As you get stronger, you have to get smarter. Newb gains dry up, and you can't just do GPP anymore. Now you start working on power development, and sport specific exercises which allow you to convert that raw strength to motor patterns beneficial to your sport.
There surely is a bell curve with strength training, and you will see diminishing returns. If you get to a 500+ deadlift, you may find that increasing your deadlift by 10 lbs over the next six months is going to have a negligible effect on your sport. At this point if you quit lifting completely, you will get weaker though, which will have an effect on your sports performance. As you get stronger, you have to get smarter. Newb gains dry up, and you can't just do GPP anymore. Now you start working on power development, and sport specific exercises which allow you to convert that raw strength to motor patterns beneficial to your sport.
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To be fair to @JimRussel, if you have a log and you are truly dedicated to improving then he's got your back. If don't at least acknowledge the advice someone gives you; especially when you're asking for it, then count yourself one of the one being smacked by his 3" ding dong.
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@KylePulley Why write that second paragraph? Parts of your first paragraph actually made sense, then you ruined it by the second one. He tried to give you advice and you didn't like it so you started to bitch and have a pissing match. He is a tough love coach that knows his shit and has consistently improved his strength and technique year after year. Cut the crap and worry about improving your fitness and fighting goals.
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What no africa you racist?!
Im 33 5'9 220 and conservatively at 365 bench, 455 squat, and 585 deadlift. So 1405 total. Id like to get to 405 bench, 495 squat, and 635 deadlift in a few years. Probably will be about as strong as ill get in my late 30s, so they say.
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Rippetoe never said do not do conditioning ever. He said to do conditioning when it is appropriate. During a standard novice LP he recommends not doing conditioning as he believes the main objective of the program(strength) will not be optimal.
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Rips comments on olympic lifting is a different viewpoint aimed at American olympic lifters and he might just be right. The USA has produced nill lifters as objectively observed via the results of the lifters. He is saying a low bar squat allows one to lift more weight and thus stronger. He is saying that when the gene pool selection of high motor unit people is going to the other higher paying sports that we have no alternative but to get a strong as possible with the movements that make you strongest.
As far as the overhead press goes there are a few ways to do it and could be more optimal given a certain body type. He keeps changing his default press in his books because he has noticed a certain technique working better for a wide range of lifters. All of the coaches on his "staff" do not coach the press the same way though.
As far as the overhead press goes there are a few ways to do it and could be more optimal given a certain body type. He keeps changing his default press in his books because he has noticed a certain technique working better for a wide range of lifters. All of the coaches on his "staff" do not coach the press the same way though.
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I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say with the bold. I mean, I understand the first two sentences, but how does the last one tie together? Squatting low bar is not going to make the USA all of the sudden produce a lot of top oly lifters.
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Im not saying you are wrong or right im saying why not try a different way than continuing down this path. I understand many coaches like high bar squats for olympic lifters but you dont get as strong as you would lifting with low bar mechanics because you obviously lift more weight by moving the bar a few inches down your back. He also says American lifters rarely even do a deadlift or a bench press or even a strict press. Again maybe he is wrong but the other coaches are no better. Both are equally producing Olympic lifters who arent worth a shit objectively. It makes sense to me that being stronger in the most efficient ways possible is going to allow you to have more power to express when you practice and work power lifts.
The same thing is seen in other sports so why not O-lifting? You train with the basic lifts and develope power with jumps,throws, sprints etc but the base of strength is the backbone for all of your power quality.
The same thing is seen in other sports so why not O-lifting? You train with the basic lifts and develope power with jumps,throws, sprints etc but the base of strength is the backbone for all of your power quality.
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Sure, I might have a limit, but it's a long way off.
Lifting is my sport. I'll continue to improve and get stronger until I've exhausted all the options and can't anymore.
We're just cut from a different cloth, brah. You're soft.
Pretty much lol.
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The reason America is so far behind is due to lack of interest and lack of funding more than anything else. Other countries a large pool of oly lifters who have been training for many years.
It's not as though most oly lifters in other countries are squatting low bar. I just don't see any basis for assuming low bar is going to be more efficient at producing a better oly lifter. I believe I read or heard somewhere that a lot of oly lifters like high bar going very deep as you want to be strong from the catch position which is very low. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think that is why pause squats are important for a lot of oly lifters.
I'm not really an oly lifter and pretty bad at the oly lifts, but I can give you my experience. I can front squat 405 lbs, yet when I catch a 275 lbs clean, coming out of the hole seems hard as fuck. A 275 lbs front squat is a breeze, but when I front squat, I'm just going to below parallel. I'm not used to coming out of the hole way below parallel and pretty weak from that position. I'd assume if I wanted to improve there, I'd need to practice something like front squats from a deep position. I have done this by the way, and it's humbling at how much weaker I am on paused front squats from that deep.
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Front squats are including in the newest edition of PPST3for that purpose as well as low bar squats, deadlifts and even bench. I dont think he means to exclusively do low bar squats. A few olympic programs are in the book and it does include stuff like that.
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a few coaches over there even do bulgarian style lifting which wouldnt be in the books but they arent married to specific programming at any rate his point is they produce better lifters because as you say they have a bigger pool of lifters and thus talent....his point is the only way to keep up with these lifters in other countries is to get stronger than they are since they are simply more explosive than our Olympic lifters
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Although that's clearly part of that, if that were the whole story, we'd expect our women's team to be kicking ass and taking names, since there's no women's professional or collegiate sport that is hogging all the high-propensity women. It's not someone's handing out stacks of cash to get ladies into track and field.
Also, more and more meta-analysis that i'm reading are concluding that while weights moved are different, that at equivelent percentage of 1RM, high bar back squat and low bar back squat are producing essentially identical torque demands. I'm super skeptical of a very large difference in training effect other than specificty if one of them is a contested lift.
