How the Humiliation of Iowa Style Explains why People Liked Kung Fu Movies

[updowniri]

Only a decade ago the way to wrestle was Iowa style, push forward, wrestle hard, use the basics, loosing is like a death in the family, etc. The way to train was Iowa too, train like a mad man, try to throw up every practice, wrestle hard, glorifying a fifth year senior crying because he didn't "earn" his spot on the team, you get the picture. Well then comes along Penn State lead by Cael Sanderson. His philosophy was a little different. Practice was not about conditioning or drilling, but live wrestling at about 20%. Play wrestling he called it, same thing as flow rolling in BJJ. The mood was light and fun in both practice, and matches. Lots of dodge ball too.

Well at first people mocked them, called them "Fun State." But then something happened, they started winning, and winning, and then dominating, and then blowing their opponents out of the water. Now Iowa can barely scrape by a champion, while Fun State is setting record after record.

Now something is happening in wrestling that we never saw before. High schools kids are beating the number one ranked college wrestlers. High school kids are winning college tournaments. Highschool kids are competing for spots on the Olympic team. High school girls are becoming back to back state champions in the boys division, high school freshman girls are winning matches in state tournaments in the boys division, seventh grade girls who have only been wrestling for two years are beating high school juniors and seniors, in the boys division.

None of these would even be imaginable when I was wrestling. We had talented wrestlers growing up, no one had ever seen anything like this.

I looked into these what these young outliers are doing to try to figure out how they are jumping levels so fast. I discovered one commonality.

They all attended Jrob’s intensive camp.

Just kidding.

They all attend wrestling clubs. These clubs are running themselves more like Penn State and less like Iowa. Everything you thought you new about how long it takes to get good, how much effort it takes to get good, what type of training you need to get good, throw it out the window. Easy as pie practices for a few years can take you to NCAA champion level with just slightly above average talent.

Bottom line to training is this.

If you are live wrestling half assed, letting people get take downs on you that you could defend, swiping at legs with low effort, and never pushing you self so that you get tired. You will rule.

If you are going hard every go, have your heart pounding every go, giving nothing to you opponent every go. You will suck.

If you do sloppy moves, put your self out of position, do what ever feels most comfortable at the moment. You will rule.

If you follow the basics and build good habits. You will suck.

If you learn high percentage moves from Russia, Iran, Kazakhstan, and Japan. You will rule.

If you learn what ever your coach learned when he was in middle school. You will suck.

If you learn moves in terms of systems, forced errors, and drawing out your opponent. You will rule.

If you learn a variety of moves and are expected to figure out which ones work best for you. You will suck.

If your coach makes technical commentary on both the visible and invisible technique. Saying something like, “your tension should be in the back foot when you feel him readying up his base here.” You will rule.

If you coach makes technical commentary on the visible only, “head up, back straight, hips in.” You will suck.

If your coach paces the room of the training wrestlers, stopping to make commentary on what he sees from each individual to each individual and assigning drills as such. You will rule.

If your coach calls the team in to assign some drills or make some point. You will suck.

Now how does this relate to Kung Fu movies? Kung Fu movies exploded in popularity, and one of the reasons less talked about is the training scenes. Now Kung Fu training has not lived up to its promise, but in a world obsessed with griding, hard work, an talented individuals just figuring things out, the themes of mastery expressed in martial arts cinema stroked at an instinctual chord deep within the souls of viewers.

On screen.

Kung Fu masters relied on secret techniques to win, not just doing the stuff everybody knows better than everybody else.

Martial arts instructors paced back and forth across the line of practicing students giving individual corrections. You never see a Kung Fu instructor giving out move of the day in movies.

Kung Fu training used weird exercises and drills to develop a feel for motions and tensions in combat. They showed a strong focus on the invisible technique.

In other words, at the height of the Kung Fu boom, athletic training methods were horrible and hindering instinctual progress. When people saw on screen the real way it should be done (even if it was fake) they instinctually gravitated towards it.

 

[shunyata]

Outside of the forced kungfu connection, I was with you.

Technical instruction and very real technical coaching can beat bad coaching that only relies on conditioning without depth of technique.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Not going to pretend I fully understood that long fucking post.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Not going to pretend I fully understood that long fucking post.

It's still real to him dammit

 

[Smato_rules]

I’ve never been able to make this style of training work for me for bjj. I wish I could, but I lose some sort of mental aspect of finishing a move or holding a position when intensity is high, but when I train hard it’s not an issue. On the other hand I’ve used this technique for lifting weights via Dan John’s easy strength and smashed all of my previous personal records. I want to find a way to make this work for my grappling so badly

 

[maximus__]

Only a decade ago the way to wrestle was Iowa style, push forward, wrestle hard, use the basics, loosing is like a death in the family, etc. The way to train was Iowa too, train like a mad man, try to throw up every practice, wrestle hard, glorifying a fifth year senior crying because he didn't "earn" his spot on the team, you get the picture. Well then comes along Penn State lead by Cael Sanderson. His philosophy was a little different. Practice was not about conditioning or drilling, but live wrestling at about 20%. Play wrestling he called it, same thing as flow rolling in BJJ. The mood was light and fun in both practice, and matches. Lots of dodge ball too.

Well at first people mocked them, called them "Fun State." But then something happened, they started winning, and winning, and then dominating, and then blowing their opponents out of the water. Now Iowa can barely scrape by a champion, while Fun State is setting record after record.

Now something is happening in wrestling that we never saw before. High schools kids are beating the number one ranked college wrestlers. High school kids are winning college tournaments. Highschool kids are competing for spots on the Olympic team. High school girls are becoming back to back state champions in the boys division, high school freshman girls are winning matches in state tournaments in the boys division, seventh grade girls who have only been wrestling for two years are beating high school juniors and seniors, in the boys division.

None of these would even be imaginable when I was wrestling. We had talented wrestlers growing up, no one had ever seen anything like this.

I looked into these what these young outliers are doing to try to figure out how they are doing to jump levels so fast. I discovered one commonality.

They all attended Jrob’s intensive camp.

Just kidding.

They all attend wrestling clubs. These clubs are running themselves more like Penn State and less like Iowa. Everything you thought you new about how long it takes to get good, how much effort it takes to get good, what type of training you need to get good, throw it out the window. Easy as pie practices for a few years can take you to NCAA champion level with just slightly above average talent.

Bottom line to training is this.

If you are live wrestling half assed, letting people get take downs on you that you could defend, swiping at legs with low effort, and never push you self so that you get tired. You will rule.

If you are going hard every go, have your heart pounding every go, giving nothing to you opponent every go. You will suck.

If you do sloppy moves, put you self out of position, do what every feels most comfortable at the moment. You will rule.

If you follow the basics and build good habits. You will suck.

If you learn high percentage moves from Russia, Iran, Kazakhstan, and Japan. You will rule.

If you learn what ever your coach learned when he was in middle school. You will suck.

If you learn moves in terms of systems, forced errors, and drawing out your opponent. You will rule.

If you learn a variety of moves and are expected to figuring out which ones work best for you. You will suck.

If your coach makes technical commentary on both the visible and invisible technique. Saying something like, “your tension should be in the back foot when you feel him readying up his base here.” You will rule.

If you coach makes technical commentary on the visible only, “head up, back straight, hips in.” You will suck.

If your coach paces the room of the training wrestlers, stopping to make commentary on what he sees from each individual to each individual and assigning drills as such. You will rule.

If your coach calls the team in to assign some drills or make some point. You will suck.

Now how does this relate to Kung Fu movies? Kung Fu movies exploded in popularity, and one of the reasons less talked about is the training scenes. Now Kung Fu training has not lived up to its promise, but in a world obsessed with griding, hard work, an talented individuals just figuring things out, the themes of mastery expressed in martial arts cinema stroked at an instinctual chord deep within the souls of viewers.

On screen.

Kung Fu masters relied on secret techniques to win, not just doing the stuff everybody knows better than everybody else.

Martial arts instructors paced back and forth across the line of practicing students giving individual corrections. You never see a Kung Fu instructor giving out move of the day in movies.

Kung Fu training used weird exercises and drills to develop a feel for motions and tensions in combat. They showed a strong focus on the invisible technique.

In other words, at the height of the Kung Fu boom, athletic training methods were horrible and hindering instinctual progress. When people saw on screen the real way it should be done (even if it was fake) they instinctually gravitated towards it.

So learning technique first and foremost before layering over the conditioning vs conditioning and learning technique whilst physically exhausted?
They still work hard, they just pick the time to do it.

 

[maximus__]

I’ve never been able to make this style of training work for me for bjj. I wish I could, but I lose some sort of mental aspect of finishing a move or holding a position when intensity is high, but when I train hard it’s not an issue. On the other hand I’ve used this technique for lifting weights via Dan John’s easy strength and smashed all of my previous personal records. I want to find a way to make this work for my grappling so badly

Just approach grappling as a chance to improve and set goals in your training. Who cares if you beat your training partner with your A game moves. Put yourself into areas that you aren't good in and need to work in. Think of it like reps in the gym and technique practice. Sure I could go into the gym and hit a daily 1RM, but that means I only get a few reps and I have to work hard for them. Or I could drop the intensity, hit a few more sets and get enough volume to actually improve. When this really works great in grappling is when you both do it. You both get so many more reps in both offensively and defensively, compared to spending a whole round fighting from a guard pass. Think of the new white belt who gets closed guard and clamps on vs the experienced guy who gets closed guard, opens their guard, hits a sweep, transitons to mount and then lets themselves get swept and does it all again. Who is developing in that scenario?

 

[shunyata]

So learning technique first and foremost before layering over the conditioning vs conditioning and learning technique whilst physically exhausted?
They still work hard, they just pick the time to do it.

I think he was going for technique above all, heavy emphasis on light / flow live training and positional training, drop the old school style of pushing conditioning as king, more flow wrestling less hill runs until the team is dead kind of thing.

 

[maximus__]

I think he was going for technique above all, heavy emphasis on light / flow live training and positional training, drop the old school style of pushing conditioning as king, more flow wrestling less hill runs until the team is dead kind of thing.

They still do a heap of conditioning, it's just not during wrestling practice. Separating technical skills and conditioning drills. It's my biggest pet peeve with some martial arts training.

 

[Bry]

I have been working with a partner once a week for the last 2 months, he was a complete newb to Jujitsu, while I have been doing it off and on for too many years. He is a big 230 crossfitter, lots of muscle and explosive strength, by doing the play fighting, he is now using more technique and figuring out how to chain moves, only after a couple of months training with a subpar teacher. I wished I had learned this way, would have less injuries and a better jujitsu game then I have now. Great defense, very little offense.

Thanks for sharing

Bry

 

[shunyata]

They still do a heap of conditioning, it's just not during wrestling practice. Separating technical skills and conditioning drills. It's my biggest pet peeve with some martial arts training.

Yeah I get you, I just meant spending more time on technique and flow while still being conditioned. As opposed to the old style coaches who were trying to make 50% of the team puke by overdoing conditioning, while losing out on technical mat time in the process.

 

[updowniri]

So learning technique first and foremost before layering over the conditioning vs conditioning and learning technique whilst physically exhausted?
They still work hard, they just pick the time to do it.

Ya but the key is separating physical and technical training. Combining them only a few times to give them a taste of what it will be like.

 

[Smato_rules]

Just approach grappling as a chance to improve and set goals in your training. Who cares if you beat your training partner with your A game moves. Put yourself into areas that you aren't good in and need to work in. Think of it like reps in the gym and technique practice. Sure I could go into the gym and hit a daily 1RM, but that means I only get a few reps and I have to work hard for them. Or I could drop the intensity, hit a few more sets and get enough volume to actually improve. When this really works great in grappling is when you both do it. You both get so many more reps in both offensively and defensively, compared to spending a whole round fighting from a guard pass. Think of the new white belt who gets closed guard and clamps on vs the experienced guy who gets closed guard, opens their guard, hits a sweep, transitons to mount and then lets themselves get swept and does it all again. Who is developing in that scenario?

I do this a lot, my gym is mostly white and early blue belts. But when I compete I find myself making mistakes and giving positions up.

 

[updowniri]

I do this a lot, my gym is mostly white and early blue belts. But when I compete I find myself making mistakes and giving positions up.

Flow rolling is only part of the puzzle. Your coach also needs to be pacing the room giving advice on what he sees during the flow roles. He also needs to stop you mid flow role in order to assign a specific drill. If your coach is teaching move of the day, then you will have major problems.

Additionally, your coach should be studying all the latest Gordon Ryan instructionals and teaching you those systems in class. If he is just teaching a few moves here and there that's gunu hurt.

Also your coach has to be giving advice on the invisible technique, not just the visible technique.

Finally, training should be done outside, or in a badass looking setting like you would see in a martial arts film. Training in a room that does not look badass will make it harder to act like a killer when it comes time to compete.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Outside of the forced kungfu connection, I was with you.

Technical instruction and very real technical coaching can beat bad coaching that only relies on conditioning without depth of technique.

There was an essay I came across years ago that stated that the "Iowa Style" was why the US national team was not living up to it's potential overseas. In the Olympics, everyone is tough, everyone is conditioned. Technique beats toughness at high profile tournaments.

 

[Fluffernutter]

So learning technique first and foremost before layering over the conditioning vs conditioning and learning technique whilst physically exhausted?
They still work hard, they just pick the time to do it.

Yes. But, there is a little more to it:

- They recruit the top wrestlers every year.
- They have their own regional training center on site. Therefore, Penn State wrestlers have access to world-level guys within their practice room. There's a chance a freshman in college will have matt time with David Taylor.

Even as a young coach back in the 90s, I realized that the state champ may not be the best wrestler in the bracket, but the healthiest. So, trying to copy the "Iowa Style" from the 80s/90s will simply lead to injuries.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I run a sparrings only day, once a week.

The rest of the time, Id have the class use something like this:

1/3 of the time is warmup drills, including various partner carries, pummeling/uchikomi, arching exercises, and etc.
1/3 is technical drills.

1/3 is positional sparrings.

Guys/girls, Ive trained that way, got medals, are free of chronic injuries, and are still practicing.

 

[TheMaster]

High school girls are becoming back to back state champions in the boys division, high school freshman girls are winning matches in state tournaments in the boys division, seventh grade girls who have only been wrestling for two years are beating high school juniors and seniors, in the boys division.

This is not generally true apart from perhaps the occasional extreme outliers.

Now how does this relate to Kung Fu movies? Kung Fu movies exploded in popularity, and one of the reasons less talked about is the training scenes. Now Kung Fu training has not lived up to its promise, but in a world obsessed with griding, hard work, an talented individuals just figuring things out, the themes of mastery expressed in martial arts cinema stroked at an instinctual chord deep within the souls of viewers.

Real Kung Fu training is very very hard, as much a grind as any 'Iowa' wresting. If you are talking about the common mcdojo type we see here then yes, the training is a joke.

On screen.

Kung Fu masters relied on secret techniques to win, not just doing the stuff everybody knows better than everybody else.

Martial arts instructors paced back and forth across the line of practicing students giving individual corrections. You never see a Kung Fu instructor giving out move of the day in movies.

Kung Fu training used weird exercises and drills to develop a feel for motions and tensions in combat. They showed a strong focus on the invisible technique.

In other words, at the height of the Kung Fu boom, athletic training methods were horrible and hindering instinctual progress. When people saw on screen the real way it should be done (even if it was fake) they instinctually gravitated towards it.

I kind of get the points you are trying ro make about emphasis on the principles not just external techniques but the caveat is that:
- real Kung Fu is very hard athletic physical training and conditioning that few in the West want to do so it has been watered down for them
- if its also trained with a live component in the exact manner you described with more exploration, not necessarily going all out which isnt even possible with some styles, it works

 

[yetanother]

Real Kung Fu training is very very hard, as much a grind as any 'Iowa' wresting. If you are talking about the common mcdojo type we see here then yes, the training is a joke.

He is talking about the kung fu in the movies. Old school kung fu being both super retarded and super hardcore proves his theory that you can kick a rock for all your life in a monstery while in a fight your will get executed by some dude who boxed for a few years under a good coach.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

When someone says "I'm a jazz musician", most likely he doesn't make living by just playing music. The mythical word 'jazz' is like a justification for unemployment or less productive status. I don't know about real kungfu but the kungfu associated with Golden Harvest and Raymond Chow is about the people whose real life wouldn't revolve around regular 9-5 labor routines.

Training wrestling and Judo will lead to some kind of career while kungfu and others in the same ball park cultivate miscellaneous aspect of life and therefore had appeals to the dreaming youth.