Why is everyone saying Karelin "destroys" Royce? Isn't that what they said about everybody who walked into the early UFC's? These big, hulking figures would all "destroy" this skinny Brazilian kid. Dan Severn was no slouch of a wrestler and he actually was able to accomplish what wrestlers do...he pinned Royce. But he didn't destroy him? Royce survived long enough to submit Severn. What would happen between a fight between Severn and Karelin? NOT a Greco match. NOT a wrestling match. But a fight? Does Karelin "destroy" a 2 time All-American wrestler about the same size as him? Do you people honestly believe that Severn, or Royce, or anyone in the UFC would sprawl on all fours and wait for the "Karelin lift" or something? Karelin was the best of the best at a very specific skill set. He was very good at basically throwing people to the ground. So? Royce was very skilled AFTER it hit the ground. How would it play out? Karelin closes for a bear hug...Royce pulls guard? Sounds like the Severn fight? Or did Karelin have some tremendous stand up that I'm missing? Or was he just going to gut wrench him to death?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Karelin couldn't "beat" Royce. But to say he'd "destroy" him? I think that down plays the reason everyone was so enthralled with that skinny Brazilian kid in the first place.
Oddly enough, as a former wrestler and currently BJJ guy, I agree. Everyone knows I favor wrestling as the base art for MMA, but the reality is, people didn’t know about fighting period, in 1993, except some Brazilians. Royce Gracie is always trashed when compared to Rickson or Renzo, but where I disagree, is that Royce was arguably better matched against early MMA fighters than Rickson. Rickson would cream Royce in two minutes, but Rickson against Ken Shamrock, Kimo, Severn? I don’t know.
Rickson’s takedowns were worse than Royce. He would simply run in like a mummy. Royce was smoother in that regard.
I also think Rickson seemed to leave his neck exposed to standing guillotines and even ate a horrible knee by Takada, who sucks. Takada even bucked Rickson from the mount momentarily. Royce was passive and never chased anything, his passivity is what caused people to fall into his traps. Being conservative is why Royce did so well, not to mention he was tall enough to not get manhandled due to framing or leverage while standing. His guard worked well because of his long limbs, which help closed guard.
Back to the original question, I think Royce might of beaten the Russian. Royce would be taken down and succeed at getting full guard, from there, I can easily see a triangle, armbar happening , it’s not impossible by any means.
Saying Rickson would crush Karelin is irresponsible, Rickson was held in a cradle by Schultz and only was let go because Schultz got bored after 20 minutes, which I 100% believe is true. I just don’t see Schultz cradling Royce as easy as Rickson, as Royce just pulls guard or is tall enough not to be folded so easily into a head and arm while standing.
Hell, Ron Trip tossed Rickson easily, again, I don’t see Royce even trying to tie up with any wrestler which is why I give Royce a chance against Karelin, an even better chance than Rickson IMHO.
I know 90% would disagree simply because Rickson is a much better bjj athlete than Royce, which is an understatement.