is Khamzat the most "goalpost-moved" fighter ever?

[RockyLockridge]

That doesn't change the fact that we were both on Sherdog and this factually happened on these forums.

It was never the majority of opinions. It was a few derranged haters.

Even If I don't like a fighter I can be honest about their skill level.

 

[azerty]

there's a lot of hate toward him for sure but come on, "BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Kamaru is so much better. Khamzat has no way to win." you're just making shit up now

 

[Bluntforce420]

It's like people see one post saying someone is going to beat khamzat and that turns into all of sherdog

theres people in here saying according to many he was going to lose to Holland. Hardly anyone thought he was going to lose that fight. That's why khamzat was -580 and Holland was +400. Very few were giving Holland a chance

 

[Pequeño Corey]

I've honestly never seen anything like this.

BEFORE: "He will be exposed the second he fights someone towards the top of the division. So much hype"
THEN: *steamrolls Li without taking one hit*
AFTER: "lol Li sucks"

Kham was the comfortable favorite. No one should have been shocked that he steamrolled Li.

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Finally he is fighting a real WW!"
THEN: *beats top 3 Burns who is a stylistic nightmare in a FOTY*
AFTER: "lol Burns is a LW and should have won"

We were saying that he looked gassed and got dropped by a LW. Both of these things are true. This is arguably his best win. Burns is a savage.

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Kevin is the true fighter of 2020 not Khamzat."
THEN: *steamrolls Kevin without taking one hit*
AFTER: "lol Kevin sucks"

Who said this? Everyone knows that Kevin is limited.

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Kamaru is so much better. Khamzat has no way to win."
THEN: *one fight removed from an extremely close WW title fight, long-time dominant WW champ with the best TDD in the whole UFC gets soundly outgrappled for the first time in his life / loses decision*
AFTER: "lol Kamaru sucks / is a WW / lol he has no knees / he is 80 years old"

We all thought that Kamaru was an unknown at MW. His knees are shot, but he looked really good after he survived the 1st round. Khamzat gassed (again).

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Finally he is fighting a real MW!"
THEN: *Costa pulls out*
AFTER: "lol Khamzat doesn't fight!"

Chimaev pulled out 2x vs Leon, ducked Strickland, retired during COVID, and likely won't fight in the US anytime soon due to visa issues. Guy has the weakest strength of schedule of any ranked WW atm. I doubt he even makes the walk vs. Whitaker.

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Finally he is fighting a real MW!"
MY GUESS "THEN": Khamzat wins vs the former MW champ / top 5 MW figher / stylistic nightmare
MY GUESS "AFTER": "lol Rob sucks / he was a WW / he is 80 years old

I'm seeing a lot of people picking Kham by superior wrestling.


Most of the Khamzat hate centers around his ideaology. He's basically a terrorist rat lip, but that says nothing of his fighting ability. Our biggest criticisms of Kham are his shit gas tank and weak strength of schedule, both of which are objectively true.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

He also wasn't supposed to injure his hand in the fight and he subsequently wasn't supposed to get it operated on quickly after the fight, but shit happens. But there seems to be a collective denial on here to just ignore that fact and either act like it's all due to his cardio, which is retarded and people really can't tell what fatigue looks like, or they just ignore it all together but still talk about how much he underperformed.

People are so strongly affected by their confirmation bias it would be funny if it weren't that sad.

Using an injury caused by an opponent as an excuse for underperforming is always lame.

Khamzat would have done better if Usman didn't do a front flip and break his hand isn't an argument I would ever use.

 

[Iroh]

Using an injury caused by an opponent as an excuse for underperforming is always lame.

How did Usman cause it then?

Khamzat would have done better if Usman didn't do a front flip and break his hand isn't an argument I would ever use.

Good for you.

You make some very strange arguments, bud.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

How did Usman cause it then?



Good for you.

You make some very strange arguments, bud.

I literally told you in the post you replied to. Khamzat was on his back and Usman did a front flip to hurt him and succeeded.

Cuz you don't understand what I said doesn't make it a strange argument maybe now that I've explained it to you three times you'll get it.

When someone is on someone's back and they flip like that they're trying to knock the other person out or rock them and he might have succeeded in that if Khamzat didn’t brace himself with his arm that got injured because of it.

He wasn't flipping for the aesthetics of it, he did it to try and slam Khamzat's face into the mat, make him give up the position or risk an injury.

 

[Iroh]

---

I literally told you in the post you replied to. Khamzat was on his back and Usman did a front flip to hurt him and succeeded.

Sorry, I misread that. I thought that you were saying Khamzat was doing a front flip. Lol.

I'll have to rewatch it to be sure that is what caused it. Though he didn't break his hand. He tore a ligament.

Either way, it doesn't sound like Usman did that with the intend to hurt Khamzat's hand, but more to escape. Making it accidental even if he caused it. That does make it somewhat flukey and unlikely to happen in another fight, kinda like O'Malley Chito 1.

And it still does not in anyway excuse that people are almost unanimously blaning It all on his cardio, instead of the hand. But hey why would you care about that, right? You're only here to make arguments against Khamzat, not to have an honest and fair discussion.

 

[HHJ]

Who gives a fuck. Undefeated Khamzat is my fav Khamzat.

 

[HHJ]

The Emperor Lord Chad God will be unleashed soon enough, ladies

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

---

Sorry, I misread that. I thought that you were saying Khamzat was doing a front flip. Lol.

I'll have to rewatch it to be sure that is what caused it. Though he didn't break his hand. He tore a ligament.

Either way, it doesn't sound like Usman did that with the intend to hurt Khamzat's hand, but more to escape. Making it accidental even if he caused it. That does make it somewhat flukey and unlikely to happen in another fight, kinda like O'Malley Chito 1.

And it still does not in anyway excuse that people are almost unanimously blaning It all on his cardio, instead of the hand. But hey why would you care about that, right? You're only here to make arguments against Khamzat, not to have an honest and fair discussion.

It was you can see his hand get fucked up when he was about to be slammed with all the force on his face. It's not something people do in training because the likelihood of injuring someone is very high. Usman basically put him in a situation where he has to get off his back or be at risk of being KOed, having a neck injury or injuring himself from bracing.

I don't think it was just his hand that was the problem, he doesn't seem to have good cardio but he also has a huge pacing issue and I'm not sure how much he can change that cause his whole style seems to be to fight at a sprint to get the finish.

I don't think it's all that similar to the Vera vs O'malley thing cause those strikes can land all the time and not cause the drop foot but when someone's getting slammed on their face like that the likelihood of injury seems much higher, especially with how high up Khamzat was on his back. If his head weren't much higher than Usman's he might have been able to tuck his head and roll with it.

 

[Iroh]

It was you can see his arm get fucked up when he was about to be slammed with all the force on his face. It's not something people do in training because the likelihood of injuring someone is very high.

Yes, the risk of getting hurt if you don't disengage with a slam is intended. But that particular injury wasn't intended, and I am sure you think that doesn't matter. But it would matter in a fight because if Usman intended to target that area, he would likely have made much more use of Khamzat having been injured, but the dude did very little in the last two rounds considering he was fighting an injured opponent. Seemed to me he wasn't even aware he injured Khamzat and if he had targeted that area he would have figured his attack to the hand had been successful and as a consequence would probably have shown more offense. It impacts the dynamic of the fight, whether something is specifically intended/targeted or not.

And yes, it is the logical reason why Khamzat didn't perform better. You can think that is lame. I don't care about what you think is lame. This is not a coolness contest. It has a significant impact on the fight and people are ignoring it and/or blaming the wrong thing.

Usman basically put him in a situation where he has to get off his back or be at risk of being KOed, having a neck injury or injuring himself from bracing.

So basically you are conceding you are not going to have a fair discussion and just want to be a naysayer who will only look at the negatives of Khamzat, because you are again ignoring my actual main point of people blaming the cardio for something largely caused by an injury.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Yes, the risk of getting hurt if you don't disengage with a slam is intended. But that particular injury wasn't intended, and I am sure you think that doesn't matter. But it would matter in a fight because if Usman intended to target that area, he would likely have made much more use of Khamzat having been injured, but the dude did very little in the last two rounds considering he was fighting an injured opponent. Seemed to me he wasn't even aware he injured Khamzat and if he had targeted that area he would have figured his attack to the hand had been successful and as a consequence would probably have shown more offense. It impacts the dynamic of the fight, whether something is specifically intended/targeted or not.

And yes, it is the logical reason why Khamzat didn't perform better. You can think that is lame. I don't care about what you think is lame. This is not a coolness contest. It has a significant impact on the fight and people are ignoring it and/or blaming the wrong thing.



So basically you are conceding you are not going to have a fair discussion and just want to be a naysayer who will only look at the negatives of Khamzat, because you are again ignoring my actual main point of people blaming the cardio for something largely caused by an injury.

No, I am having a fair discussion, just cause you don't like what I say or don't agree with it doesn't make it unfair. Usman was trying to injure Khamzat, it was up to Khamzat to prevent it by disengaging he didn't so Usman caused an injury to him.

 

[Iroh]

No, I am having a fair discussion, just cause you don't like what I say or don't agree with it doesn't make it unfair. Usman was trying to injure Khamzat, it was up to Khamzat to prevent it by disengaging.

If you don't want to look at all the arguments and points being made and just straight up ignore addressing the main point, you are not coming from an openminded and unbiased (ironically given your username) perspective. You ignore the context I am trying to put my arguments in and are hell bend on focussing on the aspect that serves your goal of conbatting my (in your eyes) pro Khamzat argument.

Though true that my argument is pro Khamzat to an extent. It isn't actually an excuse. He won the fight. Barely, but he won. I am well aware of that. It's his own fault. But there is more nuance to it that you will miss if you are too polarized. And to me, you seem very polarized on the way you are not willing to conceide any ground, but instead deflect and ignore when confronted with my argument.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

If you don't want to look at all the arguments and points being made and just straight up ignore addressing the main point, you are not coming from an openminded and unbiased (ironically given your username) perspective. You ignore the context I am trying to put my arguments in and are hell bend on focussing on the aspect that serves your goal of conbatting my (in your eyes) pro Khamzat argument.

Though true that my argument is pro Khamzat to an extent. It isn't actually an excuse. He won the fight. Barely, but he won. I am well aware of that. It's his own fault. But there is more nuance to it that you will miss if you are too polarized. And to me, you seem very polarized on the way you are not willing to conceide any ground, but instead deflect and ignore when confronted with my argument.

It has nothing to do with a pro or anti Khamzat argument. I find it lame to use an injury caused by a fighter's opponent as an excuse for why they underperformed(I never said lost, I chose my words carefully to try to prevent misunderstanding). I don't care who the fighters being discussed are. You're focusing on things irrelevant to my arguement.

 

[Yep]

The only goal is him fighting consistently before he’s 35

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Usman, CCc, Gaethje and Khabib also seem to be pals with him with no consequences.

Theres dozens of pictures of Khabib with Kadyrov, he even came to his fights.

Those fighters weren't making a point out of how friendly they were with Kadyrov, to the point the murderous Islamic fundamentalist dictator was buying them custom cars like with Khamzat worth a quarter million dollars with BORZ written down the side of them.
Chumaev made an enemy of the state department, good luck with that one.

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

I've honestly never seen anything like this.

BEFORE: "He will be exposed the second he fights someone towards the top of the division. So much hype"
THEN: *steamrolls Li without taking one hit*
AFTER: "lol Li sucks"

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Finally he is fighting a real WW!"
THEN: *beats top 3 Burns who is a stylistic nightmare in a FOTY*
AFTER: "lol Burns is a LW and should have won"

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Kevin is the true fighter of 2020 not Khamzat."
THEN: *steamrolls Kevin without taking one hit*
AFTER: "lol Kevin sucks"

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Kamaru is so much better. Khamzat has no way to win."
THEN: *one fight removed from an extremely close WW title fight, long-time dominant WW champ with the best TDD in the whole UFC gets soundly outgrappled for the first time in his life / loses decision*
AFTER: "lol Kamaru sucks / is a WW / lol he has no knees / he is 80 years old"

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Finally he is fighting a real MW!"
THEN: *Costa pulls out*
AFTER: "lol Khamzat doesn't fight!"

BEFORE: "He will be exposed. Finally he is fighting a real MW!"
MY GUESS "THEN": Khamzat wins vs the former MW champ / top 5 MW figher / stylistic nightmare
MY GUESS "AFTER": "lol Rob sucks / he was a WW / he is 80 years old"

I know haters have existed since the sport began but I've never seen so much goal-post-moving for a single fighter in the sport's history. Can you think of anything in MMA history that rivals this level of psychosis or shameless goalpost moving?

Hes basically chasing the money bag. Nobody actually cares if he contends for a title anymore.

 

[Iroh]

It has nothing to do with a pro or anti Khamzat argument. I find it lame to use an injury caused by a fighter's opponent as an excuse for why they underperformed full stop. I don't care who the fighters being discussed are. You're not focusing on things irrelevant to my arguement.

Like I said, it's not an excuse. That is what you are making of it. It's a data point that people use to predict how he will perform in future fights. I don't give a shit about the whole emotional hang up people have about fighters making excuses or not. I'm interested in what happened in reality and how it will affect the fiuture.

Like I said I don't care what you think is lame.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Like I said, it's not an excuse. That is what you are making of it. It's a data point that people use to predict how he will perform in future fights. I don't give a shit about the whole emotional hang up people have about fighters making excuses or not. I'm interested in what happened in reality and how it will affecfs the fiuture.

Like I said I don't care what you think is lame.

You seem to think him slowing down was all about his hand being injured, I don't agree. He fights at a sprinters pace to try and end the fight everytime in round 1 and both times he met significant resistance he slowed down a lot after round 1 He got a second wind against Burns in round 3 but the fact that he had to do that is an indicator of below average cardio to me.

Some people can do that but it looks like Khamzat is going to have to greatly alter his pace to have the cardio for 5 round fights.