International Its official! Sweden is as of now the 32nd member of NATO.

[Fox by the Sea]

Benefits of seeing military service as "thing person generally goes through in life"

IDF probably can match relatibe numbers percentage wise

it's a lot higher than the idf. they all have military training but women get out of reserve status relatively quickly if i remember correctly, and men have a lot of limitations for reservist status. certainly not 70% of dudes, that a huge number, damn.

 

[Seano]

Actually most (more than half) are on track for 2024 to spend at or over their share, including Sweden. And increasing going forward.

All it took was a proxy world war in their backyard.

 

[Rational Poster]

All it took was a proxy world war in their backyard.

I mean it was already trending in that direction, US Presidents have been giving them shit about it since the Bush years. Obama secured an agreement for them to increase spending within a ten year period which some of them adhered to.

But obviously an actual military threat is going to incentivize things a bit faster.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Will they actually pay their share or will the US carry water for them like we do the rest of Europe?

No they probably won't. They need to off load some of their "defense" costs in order to cover the new costs of all the illegal migrants.

 

[plataoplombo]

all euro armies are untested in war. we don't have a clue how we'll react to seeing people get blown up next to us. besides some french units, we don't even know what it's like to have somebody shoot in your direction. that's what we are lacking, not toys. hopefully we won't need to find out.

That was my thinking.

 

[Rational Poster]

No they probably won't. They need to off load some of their "defense" costs in order to cover the new costs of all the illegal migrants.

They actually just further increased their budget by $700M putting them over the NATO spending target a bit.

 

[Rational Poster]

all euro armies are untested in war. we don't have a clue how we'll react to seeing people get blown up next to us. besides some french units, we don't even know what it's like to have somebody shoot in your direction. that's what we are lacking, not toys. hopefully we won't need to find out.

France handles Russia in a Napoleonic rematch.

France is the real #2 assuming China is the paper tiger it appears to be.

 

[Cole train]

France handles Russia in a Napoleonic rematch.

France is the real #2 assuming China is the paper tiger it appears to be.

Nah they would have started to run out of ammo in a week at ukrs intensity, info came out back in 22 fall

Troop quality is fine though

 

[Fox by the Sea]

France handles Russia in a Napoleonic rematch.

France is the real #2 assuming China is the paper tiger it appears to be.

nah. france is the best army in the EU, but it' small compared to the russians and toys are worse. but if you include russia and ukraine, it's
1.russia
2.ukraine
3.france

this is continental, not counting america.
ukraine army of autumn of 2023 destroys the army of france.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Actually most (more than half) are on track for 2024 to spend at or over their share, including Sweden. And increasing going forward.

Plus, it's not a protection racket, as Trump seems to think. They "pay" by spending money on their own defense.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Stupid Russians with all their expansion.

Expansion would be them trying to have Ukraine join their local economic union instead of the EU. It's naughty Russians with their invasions that's the problem.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

well you get old ice hockey legend Börje Salmings daugther

 

[Jack V Savage]

Expansion would be them trying to have Ukraine join their local economic union instead of the EU. It's naughty Russians with their invasions that's the problem.

Yeah, "expansion" by people wanting to join you is not quite the same thing as expanding by invading a country that doesn't want to be aligned with you and killing a bunch of people in hopes that you can force them. I think Whippy would understand that if it weren't so important for loyal Republicans to not understand it.

 

[Rational Poster]

nah. france is the best army in the EU, but it' small compared to the russians and toys are worse. but if you include russia and ukraine, it's
1.russia
2.ukraine
3.france

this is continental, not counting america.
ukraine army of autumn of 2023 destroys the army of france.

I mean most of Russia's best vehicles are their best vehicles because they're equipped with old versions of French optics. France has a good air force and navy, something Ukraine and now Russia lack.

France has the best carriers after the US. They don't have the depth of bodies and materials as Russia or Ukraine, but their standing army is over 100k with some combat veterans from Africa and Afghanistan. Obviously they have a lot more manpower than most to tap into if needed.

 

[Hog-train]

Big Brain Putin

TBF, NATO expansion was not the reason Putin invaded. That's just an excuse.

He simply wanted access to Crimea and the sea.

 

[WhiteMousse]

Hopefully this will end the conflict. I don't know who is winning, I get wild tales of either one. I don't know enough about the military strength of NATO vs Russia to know who is truly at strength so if someone can explain to me how and how much this will impact the war I'd appreciate it

 

[Rational Poster]

Hopefully this will end the conflict. I don't know who is winning, I get wild tales of either one. I don't know enough about the military strength of NATO vs Russia to know who is truly at strength so if someone can explain to me how and how much this will impact the war I'd appreciate it

The reason NATO is not more directly involved is because it's been determined the US led coalition would fuck Russia up so bad in a conventional fight Russia would resort to nukes because of how badly they would be beaten.

 

[Rational Poster]

Plus, it's not a protection racket, as Trump seems to think. They "pay" by spending money on their own defense.

The other thing a lot people miss on the topic is that the NATO spending target is just that, a target, it's not a requirement. It's up to the members to decide whether or not the other members can stay despite missing that target.

I don't think anyone is going to lose sleep that Luxembourg isn't hitting their NATO spending target.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I mean most of Russia's best vehicles are their best vehicles because they're equipped with old versions of French optics. France has a good air force and navy, something Ukraine and now Russia lack.

France has the best carriers after the US. They don't have the depth of bodies and materials as Russia or Ukraine, but their standing army is over 100k with some combat veterans from Africa and Afghanistan. Obviously they have a lot more manpower than most to tap into if needed.

what do you need carriers for in a continental clash? napoleon didn't go to moscow by boat.

seriously, not even the french themselves would say they have a better army than the current russian one. this is just not a thing that exists outside of twitter, reddit or internet forums. if we speak of a NATO force, that's different. but an army that doesn't have real world war experience will get rekt when meeting one that does. and the ukr and ru armies are now easily the most experienced in this type of conflict in europe. the ukraine army of autumn 2023 would march to berlin by itself without that much of a problem.

 

[Rational Poster]

what do you need carriers for in a continental clash? napoleon didn't go to moscow by boat.

seriously, not even the french themselves would say they have a better army than the current russian one. this is just not a thing that exists outside of twitter, reddit or internet forums. if we speak of a NATO force, that's different. but an army that doesn't have real world war experience will get rekt when meeting one that does. and the ukr and ru armies are now easily the most experienced in this type of conflict in europe. the ukraine army of autumn 2023 would march to berlin by itself without that much of a problem.

If you put your fleet in the black sea you can just kill either of them with cruise missiles and aerial assaults and neither could do much about it.