International Its official! Sweden is as of now the 32nd member of NATO.

EU plans to boost defense industry and move away from US dependency in the face of Russian threats​

The European Union has outlined ambitious plans to boost its defense industry as the bloc responds to the threat posed by Russia’s war on Ukraine
ByRAF CASERT Associated Press
March 5, 2024, 8:25 AM



BRUSSELS -- The European Union on Tuesday outlined ambitious plans to boost its defense industry as it responds to the threat posed by Russia’s war on Ukraine and seeks to wean member nations off an over-dependence on the U.S. defense industry.

The plans by the EU Commission center on streamlining the procurement of arms by the 27 EU states and to increasingly produce them within the bloc in a multi-billion-dollar pivot away from the United States.

In the first 16 months since the February 2022 start of the Ukraine war, “member states spent more than €100 billion on defense acquisitions,” said EU Commission Vice President Margrethe Vestager. “Almost 80% of that was spent outside of the European Union and the U.S. alone accounted for more than 60% of this spending.”

"This is no longer sustainable — if it ever was,” Vestager said.

The need for some strategic independence from the EU’s pre-eminent ally in NATO underscores a sense of political estrangement from Washington, which has been reinforced by the strong showing of former President Donald Trump in the U.S. presidential campaign and his barbed comments on the level of European defense spending.


For decades, EU nations have slumbered under the protective nuclear cover of the United States through the NATO alliance while their defense spending and crisis preparedness withered.

EU Commissioner Thierry Breton, who is a driving force behind a stronger EU defense industry, said it was essential for the bloc to fall back on its own industrial base.

“Will it be bad news for the U.S. defense industry, the Korean defense industry? I don’t know. What we know is that we need to increase our capacity to produce what is needed. And by the way, today we have to be honest, the U.S. cannot provide what is necessary, especially for ammunitions.” Breton said.

Now, with an increasingly assertive Moscow, the need to beef up defense is becoming ever clearer.

“After decades of underspending, we must invest more on defense, but we need to do it better and together," EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said. "A strong, resilient, and competitive European defense industry is a strategic imperative.”

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has exposed glaring weaknesses in Europe’s arms manufacturing capacities that were neglected in the wake of the 1989 fall of the Berlin Wall and the promise of a peace dividend in Europe.

So when Kyiv was badly in need of the most elementary ammunition to stave off Russian forces, European nations were caught out, unable to deliver what was asked and even promised.

The realization that Trump might return to the White House and undermine support for Ukraine has also focused minds in Europe. EU heavyweights France and Germany have warned that the bloc must do more to protect itself.

And after years of go-it-alone defense strategies that left Europe divided despite high spending, the plan seeks to impose common strategies. The plans now have to be assessed by member states, and will need to be endorsed unanimously.

“Our defense spending goes to too many different weapon systems, primarily bought from outside the EU," said Vestager. With defense budgets in EU member states rising, "we should invest better, which largely means investing together, and investing European.”

Under the proposals, the 27 member states will be invited to buy at least 40% of defense equipment together and make sure that 35% of the defense value represents internal trade by 2030.

The plans now go to the member states where they will be further negotiated.

The war in Ukraine spurred European nations to hike defense spending, and a lot of money is destined for the U.S. defense industry. Germany, for example, announced a 100 billion-euro ($108 billion) upgrade of its armed forces, with a big chunk of the funds dedicated to U.S. F-35 fighter jets and transport helicopters.

While production is improving, the EU had aimed to be making 1 million artillery shells annually by now but is only making around half that figure. Officials now say that production could reach 1.4 million shells per year by the end of December.

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...s-propose-plans-boost-blocs-defense-107801117
 
Did the cuban missile crisis happen? What was our response.

The United States will respect the inviolability of Cuba's borders and its sovereignty, will pledge not to interfere in its internal affairs, not to invade Cuba itself or make its territory available as a bridgehead for such an invasion, and will also restrain those who might contemplate committing aggression against Cuba, either from the territory of the United States or from the territory of Cuba's other neighboring states.
 
There will be talks when Russian acknowledges Ukraine's right to exist as an independent country.

I think Putin was good with that if Donbass is made autonomous. That is what I got from his statements. The Euro side should accept peace talks and try to pin him down, or expose him.
 
The United States will respect the inviolability of Cuba's borders and its sovereignty, will pledge not to interfere in its internal affairs, not to invade Cuba itself or make its territory available as a bridgehead for such an invasion, and will also restrain those who might contemplate committing aggression against Cuba, either from the territory of the United States or from the territory of Cuba's other neighboring states.

America removed their missiles in Turkey and Italy and the USSR removed their missiles in Cuba. It's called diplomacy.

What diplomatic concessions have the US offered Russia in the Russia/Ukraine conflict?
 
America removed their missiles in Turkey and Italy and the USSR removed their missiles in Cuba. It's called diplomacy.
Ok, the US will remove its missiles from Ukraine and Russia will respect Ukraine's territorial borders and not interfere in its domestic politics.

What diplomatic concessions have the US offered Russia in the Russia/Ukraine conflict?
The US isn't at war with Russia.
 
That is a totally fair point. But, for us to act like we don't share some of the fault here is silly with how we rigged the Ukraine Elections and replaced their puppet with ours. Our explansion has gone way beyond what we promised, but as you pointed out Russia is asshole.

Map_of_NATO_chronological.gif
Look up the Orange Revolution in Ukraine.
 
Nothing to day about the clip I posted, eh?

You're not as smart as you think you are dude.
I went back and watched it. He seems to have summed it up pretty well. Just to clarify though Robin isn't Batman's gimp nor does Ukraine belong to Russia, but what he was expressing was pretty spot on as Putin is acting like a jilted lover, that demands power over a former lover even though they're married now.

The USSR is no more and the power they exerted over their former vassals has ceased. This invasion, as well as into Georgia and Moldova, are illegal according to international law. Russia has had a lot of leeway being a nuclear power run by an autocrat but at some point the rest of the world has to stand up to the bully.
 
We can agree to disagree. I see the NATO expansion as purposeful, targeted, and against the agreements made. However, Russia line stepped in a huge way allowing an argument that NATO's expansion was warranted. I think everyone could have been far less aggressive and we'd be in a better world.

We had that little tyrant Putin threaten Nuclear War and mentioned Armageddon last week if we had NATO troops in Ukraine. Turns out.... we have NATO troops in Ukraine. We've made huge gains with NATO. We should consolidate those gains and make a deal with Russia on Donbass being autonomous from both Ukraine and Russia (for now). That's what Putin wanted and it's not a big ask at this time.
What you're basically saying is to let Putin stick just the head in, just for a little bit, just to see how it feels...

 
Exactly. Both sides are 'at fault' if you actually believe either side wants peace.

This is all just a game of chess played by the powerful on either side. The people who actually live there are just collateral damage that neither side genuinely gives a shit about.
Mexicans want to live in Texas. Let's just cut them off a slice along the border... <YeahOKJen>
 
I think Putin was good with that if Donbass is made autonomous. That is what I got from his statements. The Euro side should accept peace talks and try to pin him down, or expose him.
That's a lie. That's what they said 10 years ago and now they claim the territory. They're so autonomous they all got Russian passports... {<diva}
 
What you're basically saying is to let Putin stick just the head in, just for a little bit, just to see how it feels...



Are you kidding? NATO took all the way to Finland and virtually everything but Ukraine. We didn't just put the tip in, went bent that bitch over.
 
Are you kidding? NATO took all the way to Finland and virtually everything but Ukraine. We didn't just put the tip in, went bent that bitch over.
More like she saw how we were living and asked to move in.

Just to be clear NATO doesn't take countries they are petitioned by States that want to join. Putin could have just accepted Ukraine preferred, and was better off, in the EU's economic union rather than theirs. Without their invasions, going back to '14 to prevent EU ties, NATO would not have made this recent expansion.
 
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