Jan. 13th Artur Beterbiev to face Callum Smith

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

i mean you can test me today to see if i have posted on this forum, you would get a positive result, test me again in 3 weeks if i thought it would get me in trouble and you may find a different outcome

its not fucking rocket science is it

It didn't take 3 weeks. They tested him again within 9 days and all of his levels were normal. They then tested him again days after twice more. There are also hundreds of 'atypical' findings per year according to WADA's statistics. Are there other possible explanations that don't involve doping? Several. Here's one.

Further, HGH and testosterone levels can naturally spike after strenuous exercise or abnormal activity. Also, the American Journal of Physiology concluded after conducting a study of 11 healthy men that even sleep deprivation “is invariably associated with a robust increase in GH secretion.”

What exactly does ‘atypical finding’ mean?

 

[WklySportsMemes]

I don't think he even tested elevated, his finding was "atypical",...which seems to mean that it's within the acceptable threshold but slightly higher and a situation where it's flagged just to keep an eye on it. This is a nothing burger tbh.

But according the the top level drug cheats atypical findings are also a red flag for microdosing.

The whole point of microdosing is that it won't or shouldn't be detected or over the thresholds for the follow up tests.....

So giving somebody the same test doesn't make a whole lot of sense if it's a known fact that the test cheat method of microdosing beats their logic & system.

If they can test if it's natural vs an outside source why not just do that??????

That would be:
- a higher level of testing
- a better standard
- catch the known cheat of microdosing
- silence their credentialed expert critiques
- clear the innocent athlete's name indefinitely & leave no doubt.

Sure I understand it can be natural and normal....But it can also be microdosing too. So if the whole point of this shit is to CATCH the drug cheats, what is their logic for not upping their standards to take into account a known widely spread form of cheating???????

That's what doesn't make sense to me. Maybe there is a buisness reason, logic, or another indicator to as why they don't.

If that type of testing exists....I kind of agree with Memo on this.

It would of also help to keep Beterbiev's name clean too.

I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusions. It's just pointing out the obvious flaws in their system. So I wouldn't say it's a nothing burger entirely.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

But according the the top level drug cheats atypical findings are also a red flag for microdosing.

The whole point of microdosing is that it won't or shouldn't be detected or over the thresholds for the follow up tests.....

So giving somebody the same test doesn't make a whole lot of sense if it's a known fact that the test cheat method of microdosing beats their logic & system.

If they can test if it's natural vs an outside source why not just do that??????

That would be:
- a higher level of testing
- a better standard
- catch the known cheat of microdosing
- silence their credentialed expert critiques
- clear the innocent athlete's name indefinitely & leave no doubt.

Sure I understand it can be natural and normal....But it can also be microdosing too. So if the whole point of this shit is to CATCH the drug cheats, what is their logic for not upping their standards to take into account a known widely spread form of cheating???????

That's what doesn't make sense to me. Maybe there is a buisness reason, logic, or another indicator to as why they don't.

If that type of testing exists....I kind of agree with Memo on this.

It would of also help to keep Beterbiev's name clean too.

I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusions. It's just pointing out the obvious flaws in their system. So I wouldn't say it's a nothing burger entirely.

It can indicate microdosing. But there are several other natural explanations for that one test having returned spiked levels of test and HGH (ieg., strenuous exercise and sleep deprivation).

VADA does CIR testing on every sample so they know if the testosterone is endogenous (natural) or exogenous (synthetic/external). I believe they also have the same technology to identify endogenous and exogenously introduced growth hormones (HGH, IGF, etc). VADA administered 3 follow-up tests that didn't flag anything. The first follow-up was within 9 days of the atypical findings. Then they did another pair of follow-up tests days later. WADA approved labs were used in all instances. They find hundreds of atypical tests per year. In 2021 they had over 300. These weren't failed tests but they required further investigation.

 

[MMALOPEZ]

 

[treelo]

i think you either test positive or you dont, get rid of these tests or keep them

so many fighters find ways to wriggle out of failed tests it doesnt really make sense to keep them, if the tests arent accurate, then fuck them off

i wonder whether the accuracy of the tests may be linked to payments or influence...i imagine they are

 

[Thunder-747]

If he didn't proper fail a test -- who cares? Could be, should be, would be, it's all speculation until there is a failed test proper or some kind of evidence.

Looking forward to the fight on Saturday.

 

[moosaev]

But according the the top level drug cheats atypical findings are also a red flag for microdosing.

The whole point of microdosing is that it won't or shouldn't be detected or over the thresholds for the follow up tests.....

So giving somebody the same test doesn't make a whole lot of sense if it's a known fact that the test cheat method of microdosing beats their logic & system.

If they can test if it's natural vs an outside source why not just do that??????

That would be:
- a higher level of testing
- a better standard
- catch the known cheat of microdosing
- silence their credentialed expert critiques
- clear the innocent athlete's name indefinitely & leave no doubt.

Sure I understand it can be natural and normal....But it can also be microdosing too. So if the whole point of this shit is to CATCH the drug cheats, what is their logic for not upping their standards to take into account a known widely spread form of cheating???????

That's what doesn't make sense to me. Maybe there is a buisness reason, logic, or another indicator to as why they don't.

If that type of testing exists....I kind of agree with Memo on this.

It would of also help to keep Beterbiev's name clean too.

I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusions. It's just pointing out the obvious flaws in their system. So I wouldn't say it's a nothing burger entirely.

Sure, but my understanding is that the top fighters have the money and connections to skirt VADA testing methods anyway. Personally I work under the assumption that every top level fighter (including Callum smith) is probably doping.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Sure, but my understanding is that the top fighters have the money and connections to skirt VADA testing methods anyway. Personally I work under the assumption that every top level fighter (including Callum smith) is probably doping.

In theory any org is vulnerable to corruption when money and influence is involved. For example USADA's track record is pretty bad. They've done lots of shady stuff like not even reporting positive test results to the respective commission that sanctioned the fight. This wasn't a one-off, either, they literally went several years without reporting any of their failed tests to the commissions.

VADA, on the other hand, has a much better track record. I can count on one hand the number of times they've been involved in any sort of shady or scandalous behavior. That doesn't mean that they're infallible but I don't suspect corruption is at play here. This isn't a unique case.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

It can indicate microdosing. But there are several other natural explanations for that one test having returned spiked levels of test and HGH (ieg., strenuous exercise and sleep deprivation).

VADA does CIR testing on every sample so they know if the testosterone is endogenous (natural) or exogenous (synthetic/external). I believe they also have the same technology to identify endogenous and exogenously introduced growth hormones (HGH, IGF, etc). VADA administered 3 follow-up tests that didn't flag anything. The first follow-up was within 9 days of the atypical findings. Then they did another pair of follow-up tests days later. WADA approved labs were used in all instances. They find hundreds of atypical tests per year. In 2021 they had over 300. These weren't failed tests but they required further investigation.

Hmmm so I wonder why Memo is saying they didn't test for exogenous vs endogenous on the elevated atypical sample...
???????

By the standards you laid out, it would mean that VADA did test for it.

I hope somebody interviews him or Conte on it. Because Memo's social media post or kind of shitty & hard to follow as a novice.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Sure, but my understanding is that the top fighters have the money and connections to skirt VADA testing methods anyway. Personally I work under the assumption that every top level fighter (including Callum smith) is probably doping.

I hate to do Beterbiev like this .....but it seems extra sus when you are now THE murderous puncher in the sport. A literal human wrecking machine. One that dishes out an other worldly level of damage AND then also absorbs similar damage to outlast everyone. Then you hear people describe his power and touch as a freak of nature 1 of 1.

Unfair speculation but it warrants additional questions & healthy skepticism.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Glad the fights happening, but the whole “it’s only atypical and also naturally occurring” argument is exactly why I suspect all might not be on the up and up, it seems like the exact route to go honestly. Micro dose and pharmaceutically enhance a naturally occurring whatever in one’s body in an attempt to mask it in the “what if they check?” Scenario… seems like a logical way to approach on the sly in the professional ranks

 

[WklySportsMemes]

In theory any org is vulnerable to corruption when money and influence is involved. For example USADA's track record is pretty bad. They've done lots of shady stuff like not even reporting positive test results to the respective commission that sanctioned the fight. This wasn't a one-off, either, they literally went several years without reporting any of their failed tests to the commissions.

VADA, on the other hand, has a much better track record. I can count on one hand the number of times they've been involved in any sort of shady or scandalous behavior. That doesn't mean that they're infallible but I don't suspect corruption is at play here. This isn't a unique case.

Yeah I dont buy the whole $ conspiracy angle.
This is not a big fight. Biev is not a draw. Plenty of bigger fights fall through for much bigger draws than these 2. So I agree no real clear motive there.

Like Conner Bennvs Eubanks JR was a bigger draw and probably a more lucrative fight....yet that still fell through.

 

[koquerelle]

Dude probably thinks 22 year olds still turn on the tube and watch MTV or something lmao.

Wrong. I do and I'm 16. Cowabunga, dude!

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Hmmm so I wonder why Memo is saying they didn't test for exogenous vs endogenous on the elevated atypical sample...
???????

By the standards you laid out, it would mean that VADA did test for it.

I hope somebody interviews him or Conte on it. Because Memo's social media post or kind of shitty & hard to follow as a novice.

I'd like to hear from Conte myself. VADA claims that they test every sample for Carbon Isotope Ratio (CIR). That's all I know. If they actually didn't test that particular sample of Beterbiev's then it'd be highly suspicious. This hasn't been reported anywhere else so maybe either Memo knows something that we don't or he's just speculating.

Goodman: “Yes. Obviously without doing carbon isotope ratio testing [also called IRMS testing] for it, the bottom line is that without doing that — and I think one reason why we adopted that as part of our protocol to do CIR on every specimen that we test for anabolic steroids — is because even with a T/E ratio that’s considered normal by any lab, athletes are slipping by.”
VADA Interview, P2: Testosterone Ratios, Costs, More

 

[koquerelle]

The sad part is that the Beef haters will use this to diminish his accomplishments from here out. That's boxing for you.

In other news, seems like Beterbiev is PISSED at Smith & Hearn, they might've fucked up <45>

Even Mark Ramsay is pissed. He made sure to remind Hearn about the Oscar Rivas-Dillian Whyte fight.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Even Mark Ramsay is pissed. He made sure to remind Hearn about the Oscar Rivas-Dillian Whyte fight.

I like Marc Ramsay. Always have. He's a good guy and I've never seen him pissed off. It's understandable here considering that this info was never supposed to get out. It leaked and Kevin Iole broke the story. If Team Smith is behind this then they broke their confidentiality agreement with Beterbiev. Reportedly they threatened to release the info, Team Beterbiev got wind of it, and the next thing you know it was public.

Yeah, the whole Whyte-Rivas situation was really shady. Talk about a bad look for Hearn and all parties involved.

 

[Mr2urbo]

I hate to do Beterbiev like this .....but it seems extra sus when you are now THE murderous puncher in the sport. A literal human wrecking machine. One that dishes out an other worldly level of damage AND then also absorbs similar damage to outlast everyone. Then you hear people describe his power and touch as a freak of nature 1 of 1.

Unfair speculation but it warrants additional questions & healthy skepticism.

Biev absorbing similar damage to outlast everyone is not exactly what comes to mind when I think of Biev, which fight/s are you referring to?

 

[borntoloseNOT]

I hate to do Beterbiev like this .....but it seems extra sus when you are now THE murderous puncher in the sport. A literal human wrecking machine. One that dishes out an other worldly level of damage AND then also absorbs similar damage to outlast everyone. Then you hear people describe his power and touch as a freak of nature 1 of 1.

Unfair speculation but it warrants additional questions & healthy skepticism.

Exactly this. Nailed it.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Biev absorbing similar damage to outlast everyone is not exactly what comes to mind when I think of Biev, which fight/s are you referring to?

The fights with Yarde, Nail, and even Johnson showed his ability to weather the other guys artillery, but more often then not the guy is hardly challenged. Still there were examples where he looked human for a second, then nope! same old Beterdestruction as usual.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Glad the fights happening, but the whole “it’s only atypical and also naturally occurring” argument is exactly why I suspect all might not be on the up and up, it seems like the exact route to go honestly. Micro dose and pharmaceutically enhance a naturally occurring whatever in one’s body in an attempt to mask it in the “what if they check?” Scenario… seems like a logical way to approach on the sly in the professional ranks

Microdosing has been a problem for years but VADA has methods to detect synthetic testosterone & HGH from natural production even in trace amounts. For instance there are isotopic differences between them. Reportedly they utilize CIR testing on every urine sample to detect synthetic testosterone and established methods like isoform and biomarkers to detect the presence of synthetic HGH. So, assuming that they didn't break WADA protocol, then Beterbiev's blood & urine samples would've been checked against that.

“So, what is an atypical finding? Very simply, it means that an abnormality – as opposed to a substance – was detected at the time of testing and further testing is required. In Beterbiev’s case, there were heightened levels of human growth hormone (HGH) and testosterone metabolite 5D-androstanediol. Such increases can either be natural or artificially induced.”

“For further context, an adverse finding – a test failure – occurs when a substance or the markings of has been detected. Again, that was not the case with Artur Beterbiev.”

What exactly does 'atypical finding' mean? | Boxing News

In light of Artur Beterbiev's atypical finding it's important to understand the meaning of the term

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