Media Ken shamrock discusses how he used what he learned from wrestling to negotiate with ufc in the first Tito fight.

I normally can’t stand rampage, at all, lol.
But I’ll have to check it out sometime, if you think it’s the best
It’s pretty good. His host needs to up his history a tad. He misses such great stories to ask. I think the long time sherdogers need to get in his discord and start asking the questions. That’s where he gets a good bit of questions to ask.

He missed so many with Chris leben
 
I’ll never forget the time he was coaching TUF and decided to bring a nutrition coach instead of BJJ coach, because he’s “more of a leg lock guy.” Lol
 
lol yea that’s him. You know what he does by any chance? He was hilarious in the last Tito fight. Ken wanted to end it and Tito flipped him off, and this guy just runs right up to Tito yelling at him.

Dude had balls that’s for sure

Erik Paulson

Not sure if that was the perfect pairing and who Ken needed in his corner. But at the time Paulson was the one pressing on him in those training camps.
 
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Lions Den Alpha is what he is

lol yea that’s him. You know what he does by any chance? He was hilarious in the last Tito fight. Ken wanted to end it and Tito flipped him off, and this guy just runs right up to Tito yelling at him.

Dude had balls that’s for sure

Erik Paulson

Not sure if that was the perfect match and who Ken needed in his corner. But at the time Paulson was the one pressing on him in those training camps.

Just to clarify, the nerd with glasses isn't Erik Paulson. I don't remember who he is - Master, do you remember who that guy was? - but Paulson is the grizzled guy behind Ken in that photo who you can't fully see.

Erik-Paulson-PNG-666x1024.png
 
good for him. based on his tuf coaching where he brought in a bodybuilder and building nutritionist as a coach i felt ken was one of those guys that doen'st learn.
I’ll never forget the time he was coaching TUF and decided to bring a nutrition coach instead of BJJ coach, because he’s “more of a leg lock guy.” Lol

I've said this many times on here, but since this is the latest Ken thread, I'll post it again in here to go with the trip-down-memory-lane thing:

First, Ken really didn't want to do that show. Literally the only reason that he did it was to fight Tito. Part of what the original Lion's Den tryouts were for - and for anyone who doesn't know the history of those grueling tryouts, definitely look that up to see what those guys had to do, all of which Ken himself had to do when he was coming up - was to weed people out. Ken was never interested in seeking out people to train. People sought him out, and he'd make sure that they really wanted to be there, otherwise he wouldn't waste his time with them. He only trained guys who had a tremendous level of dedication. To then have to show up and train a bunch of strangers really didn't appeal to him. And when he found that they were a bunch of whiny wimps who he couldn't send packing, he was all the more irritated.

Second, Ken was always a loyal guy and that nutritionist had been with him from the very beginning, he actually did help Ken and the Lion's Den guys for years and you can see him in the Octagon after Ken's early Superfight title victories in the mid-90s, he'd been with him that long, so Ken probably brought him along just to have a friend around for him during the experience, and if the guys learned some things, so much the better.

Third, about the fighters, they didn't want to learn from Ken as much as Ken didn't want to coach them. That's a shitty situation that's obviously not conducive to learning. But it was their loss for being stupid enough to not want to learn from someone who'd been around as long as Ken and knew as much as Ken knows.

If you doubt Ken's knowledge and abilities to teach, check out this 2010 seminar with Mikey Burnett, which is full of great stuff:

 
First, Ken really didn't want to do that show. Literally the only reason that he did it was to fight Tito.
Kens weakness was always his emotionality and his desire for TV time.
After the end of the first Tito fight- the epic which should have been the one we remember- Ken said "we've settled our differences, its over and done with".
Ken however couldn't keep his word and was way too easily provoked and emotionally triggered by Tito who outmatched him by then, which included getting Ken to cut unnecessarily down to 205 for both rematches when they could of been at a catch weight to help Ken who had never cut weight before the first Tito fight.

Part of what the original Lion's Den tryouts were for - and for anyone who doesn't know the history of those grueling tryouts, definitely look that up to see what those guys had to do, all of which Ken himself had to do when he was coming up - was to weed people out. Ken was never interested in seeking out people to train. People sought him out, and he'd make sure that they really wanted to be there, otherwise he wouldn't waste his time with them. He only trained guys who had a tremendous level of dedication. To then have to show up and train a bunch of strangers really didn't appeal to him. And when he found that they were a bunch of whiny wimps who he couldn't send packing, he was all the more irritated.
The entire show was filmed and edited to make Ken look like a chump, and unfortunately it succeeded. Ken was duped hook, line and sinker by that show when he didnt need to be on it and had no control over the team or setup. It brought out the worst unscripted wwe in Ken sadly which is not how he should have been portrayed.


If you doubt Ken's knowledge and abilities to teach, check out this 2010 seminar with Mikey Burnett, which is full of great stuff:


I dont think anyone doubts Kens knowledge. It irrittates me no end that the BJJ community has been able to on the sly change their entire system by bringing in catch wrestling leglocks which were alien to the Gracies, without then claiming descent and lineage from catch. As we know, Ken and Eric Paulson were instrumental in getting the BJJ community, via Eddie Bravo and the Gracies and much later Danaher, to recognize the value of leg locks which they are so proud of now.
 
That was a great podcast. Ken's been doing the podcast thing for a little while now and I'm loving hearing more from him on the ins and outs of his career. It's also a cool part in that vid when Rampage tells Ken that it meant everything to him when Ken told him that he could be a champ, as Ken was the first big MMA figure to tell him that he had potential.

Rampage's podcast quickly and definitively became the best MMA podcast. The episode with Bas is another great one with an old school figure, and Bas really pulls Rampage out of his shy guy shell since they go back such a long way as legit close friends.
I would be really interested to hear Ken talk about the training in Japan, the UWF and then Pancrase, thats an era were exact details have always been scant, the role of people like Billy Robinson for example potentially teaching catch wrestling.

I do think theres a good deal of truth to what he's saying in terms of cross training really having its roots in the Japanese scene not in the early UFC. I think the Gracies definitely had the advantage that they were coming off of decades of very real MA competision, they knew what worked and what didnt but for the most part they were not really interested in moving beyond BJJ.

I do think injury played a significant part in the first Tito fight myself(the 2nd and 3rd were obviously long past kens prime), granted Ken lost to Fujita just by wearing himself out but he was able to counter Fujita's wrestling sucessfully. I do personally think that very early comeback by Ken might actually be his peak in MMA, his striking looked significantly sharper to me.
 
Erik Paulson

Not sure if that was the perfect pairing and who Ken needed in his corner. But at the time Paulson was the one pressing on him in those training camps.
That’s Paulson? Of course we always knew that name. Just never seen what he looked like. I can’t even remember what that guy name who was famous for reviving bj penns career
 
I would be really interested to hear Ken talk about the training in Japan, the UWF and then Pancrase, thats an era were exact details have always been scant, the role of people like Billy Robinson for example potentially teaching catch wrestling.

I do think theres a good deal of truth to what he's saying in terms of cross training really having its roots in the Japanese scene not in the early UFC. I think the Gracies definitely had the advantage that they were coming off of decades of very real MA competision, they knew what worked and what didnt but for the most part they were not really interested in moving beyond BJJ.

I do think injury played a significant part in the first Tito fight myself(the 2nd and 3rd were obviously long past kens prime), granted Ken lost to Fujita just by wearing himself out but he was able to counter Fujita's wrestling sucessfully. I do personally think that very early comeback by Ken might actually be his peak in MMA, his striking looked significantly sharper to me.

The only problem at this point - aside from the still pervasive culture of silence surrounding Japanese MMA and the early era works - is Ken's memory. It's so long ago that he doesn't remember things that well. I noticed in this podcast that he repeated a story that he's told before about him winning the Pancrase title and defending it by knocking out Takaku Fuke. First, he didn't knock Fuke out - he choked him out - and second, they hadn't created a Pancrase title yet. He doesn't remember his own timeline well because of how much he did and how long ago he did it.

And then yes to the second two points. Pancrase was literally called "hybrid wrestling," it was all about combining styles and techniques. And obviously injury played a significant part in the first Tito fight. Ken was literally fighting on one leg, and it even buckles on him at a couple of points during the fight. He could barely move, hence his barely moving when Tito was beating him up and throwing him around. Even in his prior fight against Don Frye, Ken's knee was so bad he couldn't shoot TDs, hence that drop down leg lock in the first round. Ken's body was completely shot when he came back from pro wrestling, which made his comeback bittersweet: He was in his technical prime but not his physical prime, so he looked good with everything that he'd put together but he couldn't actually execute. The Fujita fight's also an anomaly: He was going through a divorce and his wife dumped the kids with him when he was supposed to be in training camp so he just didn't train for Fujita. He tried to put him away but they didn't call Fujita "Ironhead" for no reason, and then he gassed.

That’s Paulson? Of course we always knew that name. Just never seen what he looked like. I can’t even remember what that guy name who was famous for reviving bj penns career

No, the skinny nerd with glasses is not Paulson. See my earlier post.
 
The only problem at this point - aside from the still pervasive culture of silence surrounding Japanese MMA and the early era works - is Ken's memory. It's so long ago that he doesn't remember things that well. I noticed in this podcast that he repeated a story that he's told before about him winning the Pancrase title and defending it by knocking out Takaku Fuke. First, he didn't knock Fuke out - he choked him out - and second, they hadn't created a Pancrase title yet. He doesn't remember his own timeline well because of how much he did and how long ago he did it.

And then yes to the second two points. Pancrase was literally called "hybrid wrestling," it was all about combining styles and techniques. And obviously injury played a significant part in the first Tito fight. Ken was literally fighting on one leg, and it even buckles on him at a couple of points during the fight. He could barely move, hence his barely moving when Tito was beating him up and throwing him around. Even in his prior fight against Don Frye, Ken's knee was so bad he couldn't shoot TDs, hence that drop down leg lock in the first round. Ken's body was completely shot when he came back from pro wrestling, which made his comeback bittersweet: He was in his technical prime but not his physical prime, so he looked good with everything that he'd put together but he couldn't actually execute. The Fujita fight's also an anomaly: He was going through a divorce and his wife dumped the kids with him when he was supposed to be in training camp so he just didn't train for Fujita. He tried to put him away but they didn't call Fujita "Ironhead" for no reason, and then he gassed.



No, the skinny nerd with glasses is not Paulson. See my earlier post.
We need this info now. I thought I was also just maybe blowing it out or proportion, but this nerd really did get into Tito’s face heated. He gave no fucks
@ 5:59


Come on you investigators. Find out who this guy is
 
This is not a career, it's an opportunity was a Vince McMahon line in the 80's he'd shovel to the various pro 'rasslers he didn't pay. Dana White has aped VKM in so many ways over the years it's actually a touch disturbing; everyone's gotta have a mentor though, right?

Who didn't Vince McMahon pay?
There's a reason why almost every wrestler in the business was begging to get to the WWF in the 80's and it's because they were all making mountains of money in that promotion
You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're just flat out lying, either way you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading such terrible misinformation
 
Who didn't Vince McMahon pay?
There's a reason why almost every wrestler in the business was begging to get to the WWF in the 80's and it's because they were all making mountains of money in that promotion
You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're just flat out lying, either way you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading such terrible misinformation

Yea Vince paid everyone. What Vince didn’t do at that time was give the guaranteed contracts. Really some of the guys were still making more in wwf than in wcw. The difference was it was close to the same, and way less dates.

With wwf, you were having to be on the road 300 days out of the year
 
Who didn't Vince McMahon pay?
There's a reason why almost every wrestler in the business was begging to get to the WWF in the 80's and it's because they were all making mountains of money in that promotion
You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're just flat out lying, either way you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading such terrible misinformation

Very true, WWE was the place to go for money during the territory days. Vince introduced merchandising and royalties which really got wrestlers nice checks.

But their schedule was really insane for most of WWE's history. They weren't really making that much money for most of the 90s when you factor in travel time and it was non-guarenteed so it must have been very hard to financially plan things. It took until the Attitude Era to where those guys probably felt really secure again.

Either way, Vince didn't really screw people out of money like Dana does. He does screw his fighters out of benefits, that's about the only thing they have in common. McMahon isn't cheap when it comes to paying guys, not even close to it.
 
The only problem at this point - aside from the still pervasive culture of silence surrounding Japanese MMA and the early era works - is Ken's memory. It's so long ago that he doesn't remember things that well. I noticed in this podcast that he repeated a story that he's told before about him winning the Pancrase title and defending it by knocking out Takaku Fuke. First, he didn't knock Fuke out - he choked him out - and second, they hadn't created a Pancrase title yet. He doesn't remember his own timeline well because of how much he did and how long ago he did it.

And then yes to the second two points. Pancrase was literally called "hybrid wrestling," it was all about combining styles and techniques. And obviously injury played a significant part in the first Tito fight. Ken was literally fighting on one leg, and it even buckles on him at a couple of points during the fight. He could barely move, hence his barely moving when Tito was beating him up and throwing him around. Even in his prior fight against Don Frye, Ken's knee was so bad he couldn't shoot TDs, hence that drop down leg lock in the first round. Ken's body was completely shot when he came back from pro wrestling, which made his comeback bittersweet: He was in his technical prime but not his physical prime, so he looked good with everything that he'd put together but he couldn't actually execute. The Fujita fight's also an anomaly: He was going through a divorce and his wife dumped the kids with him when he was supposed to be in training camp so he just didn't train for Fujita. He tried to put him away but they didn't call Fujita "Ironhead" for no reason, and then he gassed.

No, the skinny nerd with glasses is not Paulson. See my earlier post.
Those very early comeback fights I felt Ken looked very sharp but I'm guessing the ware of the years pro wrestling quickly caught up with him and post Frye really I don't think either man ever looked that good again.
 
Those very early comeback fights I felt Ken looked very sharp but I'm guessing the ware of the years pro wrestling quickly caught up with him and post Frye really I don't think either man ever looked that good again.

Yes, technically he looked great, but physically he was in shambles. In the Frye fight, his shoulder and his neck were bad and his knees were so shot that he literally couldn't shoot. That's why he clinched the whole time: He knew that he couldn't box on the outside with him but he also couldn't wrestle him like Coleman. And then against Tito he was literally a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest. Ironically, and Ken has even said as much, he was at his physical best post-WWF in the Franklin fight, but sadly his chin was gone at that point so it didn't matter. He'd gotten the knee surgery pre-Kimo II and then got a shoulder surgery pre-Franklin, and he looked so sharp in that fight, his striking was so crisp that he actually rocked Franklin with a punch. But then Franklin breathed on him and Ken was flash KO'd and got pounded out 😒
 
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