Movies Marvel Studios in Crisis - A Variety Article

Kids and adults being able to enjoy the smae flick isn’t something I’m arguing against. Like me hating comic flicks, that’s an argument you made up yourself. I have no idea what you’re on about here. I said comic book flicks are geared to be kid friendly story telling since that’s half the audience and that means they aren’t going to make the storylines connected to the dozens of other projects spanning a decade+ they are spitting out. They’ll make a majority of them able to stand alone because mandatory viewing of past flicks over years doesn’t align with telling stories kids grasp easily.

Lion king didn’t have a decade of interconnected flicks and tv series that tied into its script. It was a simple story. So using it as an example doesn’t do anything in this debate for you.
No, you're deflecting from what the actual argument was about. Your argument was that Marvel makes too much content, which is why it is on the decline because people can't keep up. I said they make the same amount of movies a year as they have been for years, and the way in which they make movies has changed. The TV shows have nothing to do with how well or poorly received the movies are.

Mandatory viewing of past flicks over years doesn't align with telling stories for ANYBODY, so I don't know why you keep talking about kids. It's just a way to belittle the genre, and has nothing to do with what the original point was anyways.
 
I'm sorry but no one cares about the Eternals, Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau or Ms. Marvel. It's not because they are women or people of color but because they just aren't that interesting of characters with deep lore and history like others.

That's probably true about the Eternals (I like Kirby and JRJ but didn't ever read any of the books), but Carol Danvers has *massive* comics history with major storylines. Ms. Marvel is a much newer hero but her comics were well received by both fans and critics; she's probably the most popular new character in the last decade. I've never personally read a Monica Rambeau book, so you might be right there, but she also isn't being asked to support a movie on her own so...

Edit: to be clear, I'm not predicting success for The Marvels, and plan on skipping it myself. But wanted to pop in and say Danvers does have pretty deep lore in the books so I don't think that is the main factor.
 
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No, you're deflecting from what the actual argument was about. Your argument was that Marvel makes too much content, which is why it is on the decline because people can't keep up. I said they make the same amount of movies a year as they have been for years, and the way in which they make movies has changed. The TV shows have nothing to do with how well or poorly received the movies are.

Mandatory viewing of past flicks over years doesn't align with telling stories for ANYBODY, so I don't know why you keep talking about kids. It's just a way to belittle the genre, and has nothing to do with what the original point was anyways.

I didn’t say they can’t keep it. You keep making shit up lol.

I implied it gets stale and people don’t care to keep up. Making the same amount of movies every year gets old if you do it for a decade in the same genre. You think people forget the movies they saw last year? That’s terrible logic. And yes when you add multiple tv series in the same genre of the movies you’re dropping in the mix at the same time that adds to the burnout.

there are multiple adult movie series from action to horror that have their storylines rely on the fans seeing prior flicks.
 
Nah bro, watching a scientist torture a bunch of rats in guardoans of the galaxy 3 was the peak of scinemuh. Nothing tops "rat based movies". I'm so glad the largest movie studio in the world made THREE "rat movies".


If I asked 100 people if they wanted to see a movie with good writing about a man with claw hands fighting a metal man, vs a movie about the insanely long backstory of a tortured rat? Do you know what they'll say?

Rat wins 100 out of 100
 
He took that Magneto role and killed it every step of the way. He had great charisma but at the same time you could see the hate in his eyes when it was time to kill.

Fassbender brought the heat even in the crappy X films like Apocalypse. The scene where his wife and daughter are(accidently)killed by Polish cops is superbly done. After slaughtering the cops, Eric cradles his daughter's body and rages at God Himself,

"Is this what you want from me?! Is this what I am?!"
 
Captain Marvel was clever in that they took a well known actress (Brie Larson) but also made sure that all the trailers prominently showed Sam Jackson (both a well known actor AND a character that all the MCU fans were familiar with). The messaging was really on point - "this actress that you know and like is going to play a kick ass character and there is also this other character who you already know really well and he is going to be the co-lead".

For me, the movie was pretty average but the results don't lie. Critics liked it and fans liked it and it made over $1B.

Meanwhile, The Marvels looks like it will be Disney's first outright flop. For normal people the issue is that the trailers have been horrible (IMO), the timing is bad, the stars are not available to promote the film, and it apparently cost $275M (!!!) . I can't speak to its actually quality until I see it but based on the trailers and the delays, I suspect it is going to be Quantumania level quality.

For those who are interested, below is a summary of actual audience scores for the MCU movies. Ant Man 3 is not on the list. It got a B.

every-mcu-movie-grouped-by-cinemascore-rating-v0-ywnju3ittoa81.jpg
just goes to show how bad this rating system is when Iron Man 2 and 3 have better scores than Eternals
 
Update: November 1, 2023

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, The Marvels Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

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Cliff Notes:

- Due to Jonathan Majors' legal troubles, Marvel is considering changing their big bad from Kang the Conqueror to another villain, like Doctor Doom. Recasting Majors is also an option being considered.

- The Marvels director Nia DaCosta moved to London to begin prepping for her new movie while The Marvels was still in postproduction.

- In June, Marvel, which traditionally only solicits feedback from Disney employees and their friends and families, took the uncharacteristic step of holding a public test screening in Texas. The audience gave The Marvels middling reviews.

- Victoria Alonso, who oversaw the studio’s physical production, postproduction, VFX and animation, was fired because Disney was incensed the quality of the Marvel production plummeted.

- A single episode of She-Hulk cost around $25 million.

- The Blade reboot script was scrapped because the story at one point morphed into a narrative led by women and filled with life lessons. Blade was relegated to the fourth lead.

- Marvel is considering bringing back the original team in an Avengers movie, including reviving RDJ's Tony Stark and Scarlett's Black Widow.

Below is the Variety article:

This past September, a group of Marvel creatives, including studio chief Kevin Feige, assembled in Palm Springs for the studio’s annual retreat. Most years, the vibe would have been confident — even cocky — given how the premier superhero brand, owned by Disney since 2009, has remade the entertainment business in its image.

But this occasion was angst-ridden — everyone at Marvel was reeling from a series of disappointments on-screen, a legal scandal involving one of its biggest stars and questions about the viability of the studio’s ambitious strategy to extend the brand beyond movies into streaming. The most pressing issue to be discussed at the retreat was what to do about Jonathan Majors, the actor who had been poised to carry the next phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe but instead is headed to a high-profile trial in New York later this month on domestic violence charges. The actor insists he is the victim, but the damage to his reputation and the chance he could lose the case has forced Marvel to reconsider its plans to center the next phase of its interlocking slate of sequels, spinoffs and series around Majors’ villainous character, Kang the Conqueror.

At the gathering in Palm Springs, executives discussed backup plans, including pivoting to another comic book adversary, like Dr. Doom. But making any shift would carry its own headaches: Majors was already a big presence in the MCU, including as the scene-stealing antagonist in February’s “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.” And he has been positioned as the franchise’s next big thing in this season of “Loki” — particularly in the finale, which airs on Nov. 9 and sets up Kang as the titular star of a fifth “Avengers” film in 2026.

“Marvel is truly fucked with the whole Kang angle,” says one top dealmaker who has seen the final “Loki” episode. “And they haven’t had an opportunity to rewrite until very recently [because of the WGA strike]. But I don’t see a path to how they move forward with him.”

Beyond the bad press for Majors, the brain trust at Marvel is also grappling with the November release of “The Marvels,” a sequel to 2019’s blockbuster “Captain Marvel” that has been plagued with lengthy reshoots and now appears likely to underwhelm at the box office.

This is all an unprecedented turn of fortune for a company that has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.” That wildly profitable run culminated in the $2.8 billion success of 2019’s “Avengers: Endgame,” a high-water mark for the studio that has earned nearly $30 billion over 32 films.

Replicating that kind of phenomenon is never easy. However, the source of Marvel’s current troubles can be traced back to 2020. That’s when the COVID pandemic ushered in a mandate to help boost Disney’s stock price with an endless torrent of interconnected Marvel content for the studio’s fledgling streaming platform, Disney+. According to the plan, there would never be a lapse in superhero fare, with either a film in theaters or a new television series streaming at any given moment.

But the ensuing tsunami of spandex proved to be too much of a good thing, and the demands of churning out so much programming taxed the Marvel apparatus. Moreover, the need to tease out an interwoven storyline over so many disparate shows, movies and platforms created a muddled narrative that baffled viewers.

“The Marvel machine was pumping out a lot of content. Did it get to the point where there was just too much, and they were burning people out on superheroes? It’s possible,” says Wall Street analyst Eric Handler, who covers Disney. “The more you do, the tougher it is to maintain quality. They tried experimenting with breaking in some new characters, like Shang-Chi and Eternals, with mixed results. With budgets as big as these, you need home runs.”

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“The Marvels,” which opens in theaters on Nov. 10, will struggle to get the ball past the infield, at least by Marvel’s outsized standards. The movie, which cost $250 million and sees Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel, is tracking to open to $75 million-$80 million — far below the $185 million “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” took in domestically in its debut weekend last year.

Directed by Nia DaCosta, “The Marvels” unites Larson’s heroine with two superpowered allies, Teyonah Parris’ Monica Rambeau (introduced in the 2021 Disney+ series “WandaVision”) and Iman Vellani’s Kamala Khan (first seen in the 2022 series “Ms. Marvel”). But instead of seamlessly building on the success of “Captain Marvel,” this move resulted in four weeks of reshoots to bring coherence to a tangled storyline.

Then eyebrows were raised again when DaCosta began working on another film while “The Marvels” was still in postproduction — the filmmaker moved to London earlier this year to begin prepping for her Tessa Thompson drama “Hedda.” (A representative for DaCosta declined to comment.)

“If you’re directing a $250 million movie, it’s kind of weird for the director to leave with a few months to go,” says a source familiar with the production.

“The Marvels” has seen its release date moved back twice, too, once to swap places with “Quantumania,” which was deemed further along, and again when its debut shifted from July to November to give the filmmakers more time to tinker. But that extra time didn’t necessarily help. In June, Marvel, which traditionally only solicits feedback from Disney employees and their friends and families, took the uncharacteristic step of holding a public test screening in Texas. The audience gave the film middling reviews.

But Marvel has never been in the business of being average. “Kevin’s real superpower, his genius, has always been in postproduction and getting his hands on movies and making sure that they finished strongly,” the source adds. “These days, he’s spread thin.” (Feige declined to comment for this story.)

Feige isn’t the only person showing signs of strain. Marvel’s entire VFX battalion, including staffers and vendors, is struggling to keep pace with a never-ending stream of productions. This past February, when the credits rolled at the world premiere of “Quantumania,” shock rippled through the Regency Village Theatre in Westwood over some shoddy CGI. “There were at least 10 scenes where the visual effects had been added at the last minute and were out of focus,” says one veteran power broker who was there. “It was insane. I’ve never seen something like that in my entire career. Everyone was talking about it. Even the kids of executives were talking about it.”

The schedule swap with “The Marvels” had left the “Ant-Man” sequel in a squeeze, pushing up its postproduction schedule by four-and-a-half months. Marvel films are known for coming down to the wire, given Feige’s ability “to foam the runway and land a plane that way,” says one executive familiar with how the company operates. But this level of unfinished was unprecedented and would be noted in scathing reviews when the tentpole with the $200 million budget opened 11 days after the premiere. Critics weren’t the only ones dismayed. Fed up with 14-hour days and no overtime, Marvel VFX workers voted unanimously to unionize in September, sparking an industrywide trend.

“The year 2023 was the straw that broke the camel’s back,” says former Marvel Studios VFX assistant coordinator Anna George, who appeared before the Congressional Labor Caucus on Oct. 19 to testify about the studio’s untenable deadlines and working conditions. “The pay and long hours at Marvel were the reason we had to start our unionization process there. The conditions were completely unsustainable.”

Didn't majors skank get arrested?
 
More on The Eternals. They don't fit in the MCU, even in the comics they're not a strong franchise. It was a bad team to green light for a movie.
BUT, its probably one of the best stand alone comic book movies in terms of quality all around. If every MCU had that level of quality dedicated to it would be amzing.
 
You replied to me like 8 times typing out paragraph after paragraph whining it would be a waste of time for you to type something out. All because you can’t form an opinion on a flick without googling someone else’s.

This is like watching a clown kick itself in the forehead.

Oh I absolutely could have done in the first post or I could have copy and pasted someone else's but I already told you I wasn't going to be writing it out and your idiotic elementary school goading isn't going to change that.

If you're too lazy to bother to read, even though you know exactly where to get the information you are after, that's on you dude.
 
Oh I absolutely could have done in the first post or I could have copy and pasted someone else's but I already told you I wasn't going to be writing it out and your idiotic elementary school goading isn't going to change that.

If you're too lazy to bother to read, even though you know exactly where to get the information you are after, that's on you dude.

You couldn’t form your opinion and had to google one. So no, you couldn’t.
 
Lol they tried to turn Blade into a Little Women remake
 
Fassbender brought the heat even in the crappy X films like Apocalypse. The scene where his wife and daughter are(accidently)killed by Polish cops is superbly done. After slaughtering the cops, Eric cradles his daughter's body and rages at God Himself,

"Is this what you want from me?! Is this what I am?!"

Yep. Kind of insane no one realized the man should have his own movie. Would be a bit difficult because Magneto is pretty OP but it can be done.
 
I love me some Marvel movies and I still watch the new ones. In my opinion they oversaturated the market. I cant keep up with all the Marvel movies and now they have shows where I have to watch an entire season. Also, they've started going down the list from most popular like Captain America and Ironman to less favored Characters likes Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel. To most nerds who like this stuff the Ms. Marvel, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel arent even in the top ten characters people give a shit about. Also, a lot of people have issues with Disney so Marvel movies are going to get some back lash for it. The Marvel Movies arent that woke but they do sprinkle it in at times where I have to roll my eyes.
 
just goes to show how bad this rating system is when Iron Man 2 and 3 have better scores than Eternals

The next Variety headline:

For the past 45 years Hollywood executives have eagerly consulted opening day CinemaScores, but in this obscure karate forum 4CHAN4EVA isn't so sure that they make a lot of sense.
 
I already told you I wasn't going to be writing it out
And yet you write out all these posts saying over and over again that you're not going to write out your opinion when it would be so much quicker to just write out your opinion.

Back to the elementary school goading. Try again.
When someone HAS a genuine opinion of their OWN, they EXPRESS it THEMSELVES.
 
Probably no coincidence that Yann Demange is in Deadline today talking about Blade being an R rated movie and expressing his enthusiasm for working with Ali. Disney getting the message out that Demanage is on the case and, despite what you may have read in Variety, the Blade movie is going to be gritty and put a spotlight on Ali.

https://screenrant.com/marvel-mcu-blade-movie-r-rated-confirmed-director/
 
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