MMA vs. Hockey: Which is the more popular sport?

[Madmick]

Has UFC Surpassed NHL As The 4th Most Popular Sport In US?​

MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL are commonly referred to as the "Big Four" major sports leagues in the United States. Yet Endeavor president Mark Shapiro says the UFC now holds one of those four positions in the hierarchy.

"I’ve spent a lot of time in sports in my career. I’m getting old now. You used to hear it more often than you do now, but it used to be the four majors. The four majors. And frankly, what are you talking about," Shapiro said during an appearance at Morgan Stanley’s Technology, Media & Telecom Conference on Wednesday.

"The UFC is now not only mainstream, it’s one of the four majors."

Per Shapiro, the UFC eclipsed the NHL – bumping professional hockey out of the "Big Four."

"The ratings on ESPN and ESPN 2, apples to apples against the NHL, even including the playoffs, we dwarf them," Shapiro said. "You put a Fight Night — not a pay-per-view, not a preliminary bout in front of the pay-per-view — a regular weekly Fight Night on ESPN does double-digit ratings… and the demos are anywhere between 20-40 percent up."

Shapiro is compromised on said topic. Obviously. Endeavor is the parent company of TKO, which owns the UFC and WWE. However, the former president of ESPN's argument is intriguing. We don't scoff at it.

Let's review the "Big Four" U.S. sports:

The NFL is No. 1. It's not close. The NFL is already the largest sports league in the country and is growing, setting several postseason and Super Bowl viewership records last season.

The NFL is on a tier of its own...

The NBA and MLB account for the second and third most popular sports leagues in the U.S. But the order is up for interpretation...

That brings us to the fourth spot, rounding out the "Big Four."

As Shapiro says, the UFC is a hotter television product and drives more subscriptions to ESPN+ than the NHL. That said, contrasting weekly fights versus a barrage of regular-season hockey is nonpareil.

In terms of annual revenue, the NHL holds a substantial $5.93 billion to $1.3 billion advantage over the UFC. Mark Shapiro would say that is about to change.

In fact, he made that case this week:

"Yes, [the UFC] is under-monetized. There’s more money to be made in all the different places we’re making it. But guess what? It’s a growth story. We’re gonna make that money. We’re already making that money. We’ve gone three times on our sponsorship sales. And we’re going to go further in time."

I tend to agree.

The expectation around the sports media industry is that Amazon, Peacock, and Apple will try to wrest the UFC product from ESPN with several substantial offers. ESPN's exclusive partnership to air UFC content expires in 2025.

Plus, the UFC is more culturally relevant than the NHL. UFC fights are frequently among the most searched topics on Google Trends and social media during fight nights.

The UFC speaks to Red America as the only professional sports league that caters to conservatives, embracing president Dana White’s friendship with Donald Trump:

Corporate sponsors understand the UFC’s influence, as well.

Late last year, Bud Light paid the UFC over $100 million to become the official beer of the promotion, trying to make amends with the former Bud Light drinkers who boycotted the company following its partnership with Dylan Mulvaney.

Brands don’t overpay for association with the NHL.

Bud Light sold out to the UFC. Not the inverse.

In the end, Mark Shapiro is not blowing smoke. The UFC's case over the NHL is strong, despite the current disparity in revenue. If you were buying stock, you’d choose the UFC over the NHL. So would most television and streaming platforms.

Thus, if we must choose, and a "Big Five" is not a plausible concession – we’d anoint the UFC to "Big Four" status.

I don't know what it's like on the ground in cold weather states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and upper New England, for example, but I'm kind of astonished the NHL even does more revenue, still. UFC is far, far more popular where I live.

You could always tell this with ESPN tabs. The more obscure sports aren't on the main page. The NFL has always had the prime real estate: first tab, furthest left. Well, now the UFC is right next to it. Not the NBA, not the MLB. Frankly, I think there's an argument to be made the UFC is overtaking basketball and baseball even if I wouldn't argue that right this moment. Those sports are stagnant at best. The UFC just gets bigger and bigger every year.

 

[Sweater of AV]

You could always tell this with ESPN tabs. The more obscure sports aren't on the main page. The NFL has always had the prime real estate: first tab, furthest left. Well, now the UFC is right next to it. Not the NBA, not the MLB. Frankly, I think there's an argument to be made the UFC is overtaking basketball and baseball even if I wouldn't argue that right this moment. Those sports are stagnant at best. The UFC just gets bigger and bigger every year.

Never been the case for me on the ESPN website. It's currently NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, Golf.

The "Top Events" tab has UFC listed just below the PGA Tour and NBA which seems to indicate that UFC 300 still isn't as popular as the end of the NBA season or the Masters. The NHL is just below the UFC. The order may change tomorrow on event day but also keep in mind that UFC 300 is being touted as the greatest event ever put forth by the UFC. Once the NHL playoffs start the order will shuffle the UFC back down.

The UFC could be gaining ground but it's not in the top 4 yet imho.

 

[Madmick]

Never been the case for me on the ESPN website. It's currently NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer, Golf.

Sounds like you're not an ESPN+ member or ESPN Insider. Even with no preferences altered an ESPN+ should show UFC next to the NFL. Also, country of origin can affect this should you test different VPN logins.

But, then, if you use anonymous clean desktop login on any desktop browser showing the website US access, NCAAF isn't in the top listed sports, when it is the #2 most popular sport in the US, and there is no UFC tab at all-- it's just "MMA".

 

[Sweater of AV]

Sounds like you're not an ESPN+ member or ESPN Insider. Even with no preferences altered an ESPN+ should show UFC next to the NFL. Also, country of origin can affect this should you test different VPN logins.

But, then, if you use anonymous clean desktop login on any desktop browser showing the website US access, NCAAF isn't in the top listed sports, when it is the #2 most popular sport in the US, and there is no UFC tab at all-- it's just "MMA".

First of all, you said "ESPN tabs." If you need a subscription to see something that you're seeing then you should be beginning to understand why it's probably not the best representation of actual popularity.

Considering that one needs an ESPN+ account to order a UFC PPV, it's not exactly shocking that the UFC is pushed harder on there, especially right now. Ultimately though, if the UFC were as popular as you claim, it would have its own tab on the ESPN website ahead of soccer and golf. I'm sure the tabs do depend somewhat on the season. Considering NCAAF ended quite a while back it's not surprising it's not on there.

If ESPN actually thought it was worthwhile to have a UFC tab then it would be there.

 

[Madmick]

First of all, you said "ESPN tabs." If you need a subscription to see something that you're seeing then you should be beginning to understand why it's probably not the best representation of actual popularity.

Considering that one needs an ESPN+ account to order a UFC PPV, it's not exactly shocking that the UFC is pushed harder on there, especially right now. Ultimately though, if the UFC were as popular as you claim, it would have its own tab on the ESPN website ahead of soccer and golf. I'm sure the tabs do depend somewhat on the season. Considering NCAAF ended quite a while back it's not surprising it's not on there.

If ESPN actually thought it was worthwhile to have a UFC tab then it would be there.

You sound poor.

 

[560ti]

Nah I think Shapiro is full of it. If the NHL had been struggling the last 10 years then you could maybe say oh yeah now's the Time for another sport to pass it but NHL revenue has doubled in the last 10 years.

Half the teams now are valued at at least a billion dollars and the two lowest market teams are rumored to be relocating. Number of season ticket holders are at an all-time high. For a lot of teams this is going to be the last year they're on balley sports and then the rumor is Amazon and Hulu are putting in a pitch to snag these teams so TV revenue is going to skyrocket. The main TV deal is being renegotiated in 2 years and once again it will skyrocket.

Reality is by the time the UFC is a consistent 2 billion a year in revenue NHL at that point will probably be 7 or 7.5.

Shapiro's point would make more sense if they had been around 6 billion but the last five six years dropped to four but that's not what happened. He even tried to use the most recent Stanley cup finals ratings against the NHL in one of his recent podcasts but those were like two of the smallest market teams. Most NHL fans were like "man the NHL is going to be pissed viewer wise" when those 2 teams won the conference finals. Even the previous Stanley cup which had Tampa Bay (which is a franchise that has historically low Cup viewership numbers) still did almost double the viewers.

Anything's possible but I'd be shocked if the UFC even came to half.

 

[Revolver]

Both are F level sports so who cares. They are both probably on par with MLS in popularity.

 

[HereticBD]

In the US...maybe. Hard to gauge, though. Not really playing on the same board.

 

[Madmick]

Nah I think Shapiro is full of it. If the NHL had been struggling the last 10 years then you could maybe say oh yeah now's the Time for another sport to pass it but NHL revenue has doubled in the last 10 years.

Half the teams now are valued at at least a billion dollars and the two lowest market teams are rumored to be relocating. Number of season ticket holders are at an all-time high. For a lot of teams this is going to be the last year they're on balley sports and then the rumor is Amazon and Hulu are putting in a pitch to snag these teams so TV revenue is going to skyrocket. The main TV deal is being renegotiated in 2 years and once again it will skyrocket.

Reality is by the time the UFC is a consistent 2 billion a year in revenue NHL at that point will probably be 7 or 7.5.

Shapiro's point would make more sense if they had been around 6 billion but the last five six years dropped to four but that's not what happened. He even tried to use the most recent Stanley cup finals ratings against the NHL in one of his recent podcasts but those were like two of the smallest market teams. Most NHL fans were like "man the NHL is going to be pissed viewer wise" when those 2 teams won the conference finals. Even the previous Stanley cup which had Tampa Bay (which is a franchise that has historically low Cup viewership numbers) still did almost double the viewers.

Anything's possible but I'd be shocked if the UFC even came to half.

I don't think there's any case to be made for the UFC/MMA on revenue. The article and Shapiro both sort of openly conceded that. But, as we've already touched on, that really has to do with a model of regional cable TV networks that is frankly geriatric even if it is still so highly profitable. I think the major sports leagues realize that, but they are adapting to it in all the wrong ways due to their greed. The most glaring example is how even playoff coverage is increasingly disappearing behind cable or premium streaming paywalls. I don't think they realize this is going to kill the future of their sports as so many young boys across this nation suddenly can't take part. Over-the-air network coverage always served two purposes. It made them money, but it was also a perpetual recruitment tool. Now they seem to only care about the money. Hubris.

As the article also mentioned, it also has to do with the volume of games. That's why the MLB makes more than the NBA. Volume. Both of these points were touched on in a paragraph I omitted:

The NBA and MLB account for the second and third most popular sports leagues in the U.S. But the order is up for interpretation.

The NBA is the more valuable national product. Nationally-televised NBA games average higher ratings than nationally-televised MLB matchups.

However, MLB is more successful at the local level via several regional sports networks. Ryan Glasspiegel contextualized the MLB vs. NBA race in 2019, providing the following details:

"For the full 2019 season, MLB RSN games averaged a 2.86 rating and NBA games averaged a 2.3 rating per game for the 2018-19 season. This means that MLB games rated 24 percent higher than NBA games, before accounting for the fact that a) There are twice as many games in MLB, and b) MLB games last on average about 50 minutes longer, meaning more advertising inventory."

MLB also averages $11.5 billion in annual revenue, compared to the NBA’s average of $10 billion. (The NFL averages $18 billion, the highest mark worldwide.)

As you can see, the NBA averages more viewers per game, but it doesn't matter because of volume. Virtually every other survey or metric I've perused over the past few decades has indicated basketball is the more popular sport. More people play it, more people name it their favorite sport, more people are familiar with its biggest stars, etc. Yet baseball makes more money.

Combat sports were always focused on the PPV model, and a tiny number of events. Only the UFC has begun to change that, and the ESPN+ deal was a big part of that. This model isn't the cash cow the geriatric local cable sports network one is, not right now, but it seems to me to be the one that is far superior in terms of winning devoted fans who closely follow the sport.
And yeah, while it's always been behind a set of paywalls, it has addressed that by putting out old fights on YouTube for free. Streaming sites and social media have filled that void with full fights and highlights. Guess what the #1 YouTube sports category channel is in the USA?

It's the UFC.

Top Sports YouTube Channels in the United States | HypeAuditor

Find the top Sports YouTube Channels in the United States ranked by the number of subscribers. These top influencers can help you take your business to the next level.

hypeauditor.com

That's why I wanted to poll guys on here about what the situation is in their actual lives. I don't want statistics on a screen. What is your social circle like? IRL friends? Friends online? Sports fandom around your local area? Is hockey actually big there? Are guys at bar asking for the bartender to put the hockey game on? Is that what they talk about? Is that what they share when they talk about sports on their Facebook? Is it hockey highlights they send you via Tiktok or whatever?

Because hockey sure as hell has no presence where I live, but then, it never has. Warm weather states. But the UFC...fuck, it's huge.

 

[Corona]

Ice skating is much more difficult than having big muscles and groping a guy for 15 minutes imo.

@fica can confirm

 

[Sweater of AV]

That's why I wanted to poll guys on here about what the situation is in their actual lives. I don't want statistics on a screen. What is your social circle like? IRL friends? Friends online? Sports fandom around your local area? Is hockey actually big there? Are guys at bar asking for the bartender to put the hockey game on? Is that what they talk about?

Popularity of the UFC seems to basically trend with big stars. In recent times, when Conor and Ronda were around it was a big deal, especially at the gym and office. The peak was probably around Mayweather-McGregor. I don't think I've heard anyone at work mention anything MMA related in a while. In recent years, I'm the only person who followed it somewhat regularly but I haven't watched an event in a couple of years.

On the flip side, hockey has a dedicated fanbase that is largely independent of stars. The teams just always exist and the fanbase is pretty consistent. I know people who still have season tickets and go into the city regularly. We used to go somewhat often but don't bother as much anymore.

I suspect a college-aged kid or someone more aligned with the UFC's target demographic likely has a different perspective.

Is that what they share when they talk about sports on their Facebook? Is it hockey highlights they send you via Tiktok or whatever?

I have no social media but I strongly suspect the UFC outshines the NHL on there.

Because hockey sure as hell has no presence where I live, but then, it never has. Warm weather states. But the UFC...fuck, it's huge.

Gretzky being traded to LA was probably the biggest thing to ever happen in the Southern US hockey-wise. It still has a presence though. I've recently been to games in places like Dallas and was pleasantly surprised by their fanbase.

 

[Yorick]

Weird premise/question tbh.

Which is more popular? Wouldn’t stats bear that out if one were to look at them?

Personally I like them both having watched hockey for 40 years and having been at Pride One at the Tokyo Dome.

 

[560ti]

That's why I wanted to poll guys on here about what the situation is in their actual lives. I don't want statistics on a screen. What is your social circle like? IRL friends? Friends online? Sports fandom around your local area? Is hockey actually big there? Are guys at bar asking for the bartender to put the hockey game on? Is that what they talk about? Is that what they share when they talk about sports on their Facebook? Is it hockey highlights they send you via Tiktok or whatever?

Because hockey sure as hell has no presence where I live, but then, it never has. Warm weather states. But the UFC...fuck, it's huge.

I'm in DFW (hot state) and fanbase wise for males 18-50 it's probably #2 behind the cowboys in terms of actual number of fans that legitimately follow the sport and #3 in media exposure only above baseball. Fanbase wise Baseball (Rangers) is mostly kids and old people, and the Basketball (Mavericks) is mostly downtown yuppies who spend half the game taking selfies. In the 3 states I've lived in Hockey fans kind of keep to themselves, they don't openly brag or talk a bunch about it but at the end of day a lot of people watch it and/or have season tickets. Silent majority (kind of like Trump Voters in 2016).

On the flip side, hockey has a dedicated fanbase that is largely independent of stars. The teams just always exist and the fanbase is pretty consistent. I know people who still have season tickets and go into the city regularly. It still has a presence though. I've recently been to games in places like Dallas and was pleasantly surprised by their fanbase.

A lot of non-original 8 teams surprise people, Hockey isn't flashy brand wise so you'd think it would be way less popular.

Average person would go "Carolina Hurricanes in Raleigh North Carolina ? Sounds like some college Division 2 team".

Reality though? They have 14,000 season ticket holders and are on pace to sell 750,000 tickets this season.

 

[ferrisjso]

I don't think there's any case to be made for the UFC/MMA on revenue. The article and Shapiro both sort of openly conceded that. But, as we've already touched on, that really has to do with a model of regional cable TV networks that is frankly geriatric even if it is still so highly profitable. I think the major sports leagues realize that, but they are adapting to it in all the wrong ways due to their greed. The most glaring example is how even playoff coverage is increasingly disappearing behind cable or premium streaming paywalls. I don't think they realize this is going to kill the future of their sports as so many young boys across this nation suddenly can't take part. Over-the-air network coverage always served two purposes. It made them money, but it was also a perpetual recruitment tool. Now they seem to only care about the money. Hubris.

As the article also mentioned, it also has to do with the volume of games. That's why the MLB makes more than the NBA. Volume. Both of these points were touched on in a paragraph I omitted:

As you can see, the NBA averages more viewers per game, but it doesn't matter because of volume. Virtually every other survey or metric I've perused over the past few decades has indicated basketball is the more popular sport. More people play it, more people name it their favorite sport, more people are familiar with its biggest stars, etc. Yet baseball makes more money.

Combat sports were always focused on the PPV model, and a tiny number of events. Only the UFC has begun to change that, and the ESPN+ deal was a big part of that. This model isn't the cash cow the geriatric local cable sports network one is, not right now, but it seems to me to be the one that is far superior in terms of winning devoted fans who closely follow the sport.
And yeah, while it's always been behind a set of paywalls, it has addressed that by putting out old fights on YouTube for free. Streaming sites and social media have filled that void with full fights and highlights. Guess what the #1 YouTube sports category channel is in the USA?

It's the UFC.

Top Sports YouTube Channels in the United States | HypeAuditor

Find the top Sports YouTube Channels in the United States ranked by the number of subscribers. These top influencers can help you take your business to the next level.

hypeauditor.com

That's why I wanted to poll guys on here about what the situation is in their actual lives. I don't want statistics on a screen. What is your social circle like? IRL friends? Friends online? Sports fandom around your local area? Is hockey actually big there? Are guys at bar asking for the bartender to put the hockey game on? Is that what they talk about? Is that what they share when they talk about sports on their Facebook? Is it hockey highlights they send you via Tiktok or whatever?

Because hockey sure as hell has no presence where I live, but then, it never has. Warm weather states. But the UFC...fuck, it's huge.

Hockey is the number 1 sport in the northern north of the United States(draw a line in New England and drag it across the country). This is just based on my anecdotal experience but in those places it is truly huge. In the rest of the country it might not even be a major sport its basically "all or nothing". Either the community loves it or its just a few lone "hockey people".

I did a college hockey thread at the beginning of the year. Like 2 people replied to it. Whether its more popular or less popular UFC/MMA is more consistant. There isn't "MMA country"outside of which no one cares.

 

[fica]

Mma will never be as popular as team sport for one reason they do not have weekly games/fight cards like other sports do.even tennis have bi weekly tournaments

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Has UFC Surpassed NHL As The 4th Most Popular Sport In US?​

I don't know what it's like on the ground in cold weather states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and upper New England, for example, but I'm kind of astonished the NHL even does more revenue, still. UFC is far, far more popular.

You could always tell this with ESPN tabs. The more obscure sports aren't on the main page. The NFL has always had the prime real estate: first tab, furthest left. Well, now the UFC is right next to it. Not the NBA, not the MLB. Frankly, I think there's an argument to be made the UFC is overtaking basketball and baseball even if I wouldn't argue that right this moment. Those sports are stagnant at best. The UFC just gets bigger and bigger every year.

I can’t speak for the US, but the popularity of MMA in Canada crashed hard in the post-GSP era. When I was in law school 16 years ago everyone was into UFC. Like 30 classmates of mine all got together to watch UFC 94 for GSP/Penn 2. The last time there was a get together of 10+ buddies to watch MMA was GSP/Bisping in 2017. These days I don’t know a single person that watches MMA anymore. Even me, I was huge fan for a number of years and watched every single PPV from UFC 62 to 140 live, and caught every season of TUF from season 3 to about 14 or 15 as they were broadcast. Now? I haven’t watched a single MMA fight since Cormier/Stipe 3 in August 2020.


And it’s not just my social circle either that’s turned away from MMA gradually over the last decade. Just going around the various sports bars and pubs, from 2007 to about 2016 almost every sports bar in Edmonton or Calgary showed the UFC PPVs, among other MMA cards (I caught both Affliction cards at a sports bar my wife’s grandpa goes to every weekend to watch horse races that he bets on). Now? Basically none. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a UFC PPV poster on the window or walls of a sports bar in Alberta.

 

[Sweater of AV]

You sound poor.

My apologies, I thought I responded to this.

Concession accepted

 

[GSP_37]

In middle school PE, in the cafeteria with tables moved aside, we played hockey. It was fun. This was probably at least a few years before UFC 1.

I suspect modern day PE doesn't have MMA.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Apples to oranges in most ways obviously, but you are going to find way more people that follow the UFC spread across a wider range of countries and demographics than hockey, and MMA has more stars.

 

[Madmick]

I can’t speak for the US, but the popularity of MMA in Canada crashed hard in the post-GSP era. When I was in law school 16 years ago everyone was into UFC. Like 30 classmates of mine all got together to watch UFC 94 for GSP/Penn 2. The last time there was a get together of 10+ buddies to watch MMA was GSP/Bisping in 2017. These days I don’t know a single person that watches MMA anymore. Even me, I was huge fan for a number of years and watched every single PPV from UFC 62 to 140 live, and caught every season of TUF from season 3 to about 14 or 15 as they were broadcast. Now? I haven’t watched a single MMA fight since Cormier/Stipe 3 in August 2020.


And it’s not just my social circle either that’s turned away from MMA gradually over the last decade. Just going around the various sports bars and pubs, from 2007 to about 2016 almost every sports bar in Edmonton or Calgary showed the UFC PPVs, among other MMA cards (I caught both Affliction cards at a sports bar my wife’s grandpa goes to every weekend to watch horse races that he bets on). Now? Basically none. I can’t even remember the last time I saw a UFC PPV poster on the window or walls of a sports bar in Alberta.

Yeah, superstars affect this stuff, that's why Zhang has been so good for MMA in China, and while Canada looked like a rising sun in MMA there for a hot minute with Tri-Star tidal wave, like they might gain a strangehold on being the #3 nation despite their small population, they really haven't produced shit in the last 5-6 years, have they? Sticking to the Standard ELO with the Fight Matrix:

Not a single Canadian on the P4P list.
HW: None in the Top #100 (37-year-old Arjan Singh Bhullar is the highest ranked at #107...the baddest man in Canada? Yikes)
LHW: #64 Tanner Boser
MW: #38 Marc Andre-Barriault
WW: #80 Mike Malott
LW: #85 Claudio Puelles
FW: #12 Jesus Pinedo
BW: #34 Daniel Marcos
FLY: #90 Oscar Miguel


Well, goddamn, no wonder MMA might be sagging in Canada. Canada fucking sucks. If this thread brings nothing else to my attention, I will have learned this. I was oblivious. I thought you Canucks were still kicking ass. Obviously not.