Odd Question: How do you feel about couple's with Downs Syndrome having children?

[Fedorgasm]

If we're going to gatekeep people from having kids then let's really create an exclusion list...

I've always wished we invented an infertility microchip that gets implanted into every baby when it's born, and when that baby grows up it can never have kids until the chip deactivated.

And in order to get the chip deactivated, that person has to take a few parenting classes and prove they have financial means to provide for a child, and pass a psych test too.

People scream "Hitler" and all that bullshit, but to me, parents rights mean nothing compared to the kid's well-being. Stop letting shitty people have kids just so they can abuse them.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

We should breed top quality minds such as myself to make the world a better place.

 

[Fedorgasm]

We should breed top quality minds such as myself to make the world a better place.

It sounds like most people in this thread think you shouldn't be allowed to have a kid.

 

[Natural Order]

It’s very irresponsible for anybody to advocate or encourage this behaviour. Imagine people with serious decision making problems being in the care of a screaming infant. Get a grip.

 

[Spounman]

If they have the means to take care of it and have help then I guess I don't see a problem with it. Some of them are high functioning. I used to coach Special Olympics and there was one couple on the basketball team I coached. They lived together in an apartment and would take the bus to our practices.

 

[ObsoleteSoul]

Some are just fine, and able to take care of themselves and others. Just depends on the individual. Seems the same rules should apply to them as they are to everyone else.

 

[ChickenBrother]

This dude doesn't need your permission to father 15 kids. Even being born with shit zygos and cuck eyes, he found a way to make it happen. Green Power Ranger chad FTW.

Family of sperm donor who fathered 15 kids say he is 'kind hearted'

The family of a Nottingham Facebook sperm donor who fathered fifteen children to lesbian women without telling them of his genetic condition have claimed that he is 'kind-hearted'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Michaelangelo]

This dude doesn't need your permission to father 15 kids. Even being born with shit zygos and cuck eyes, he found a way to make it happen. Green Power Ranger chad FTW.

View attachment 1041062

Family of sperm donor who fathered 15 kids say he is 'kind hearted'

The family of a Nottingham Facebook sperm donor who fathered fifteen children to lesbian women without telling them of his genetic condition have claimed that he is 'kind-hearted'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

his parents are retarded in thinking this is okay, but those dykes who took some random dude’s spooge are even more retarded

 

[Osculater]

This dude doesn't need your permission to father 15 kids. Even being born with shit zygos and cuck eyes, he found a way to make it happen. Green Power Ranger chad FTW.

View attachment 1041062

Family of sperm donor who fathered 15 kids say he is 'kind hearted'

The family of a Nottingham Facebook sperm donor who fathered fifteen children to lesbian women without telling them of his genetic condition have claimed that he is 'kind-hearted'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Dang, a retard was able to hack the system

 

[Michaelangelo]

I think this is scaling quite a bit to quickly

First let’s start with a goldfish and take it from there imo

 

[squeezewax]

We've moved into the era of Transhumanism[Eugenics] so these type of questions will soon be answered for everyone.

 

[Cyrano200]

It’s a complex question. On the one hand parenting is a fucking huge responsibility. On the other, I cannot think of a more fundamental human right than to have a family. From a purely biological perspective the purpose of life is to procreate.


At the end of the day we don’t stop addicts and the mentally ill from having children, and if the state needs to step in and remove the children from a dangerous situation then so be it. Apply the same standards to the mentally disabled. If they objectively can’t take care of the children then the children need to be removed.

Seems like a terrible idea to have people who can’t live independently being responsible for taking care of someone else.

Shit, they can't be worse parents than some of the absolute trash parents that are out there sir.

Any couple who do not have the means (physically, emotionally, and financially, etc) to take responsibility for a child should not be reproducing. Particularly, if the couple cannot financially support a child, the taxpayers end up paying for the child's care, education, healthcare, etc. In the US, there are a lot of people on public assistance having kids they can't afford. Is this Down's couple self-sufficient? Do they have jobs or other means to be able to afford a child?

Does the state foot the bill for said family?

While I don't think it is a good idea, we don't place any kind of limit on any of the other groups that could end up being horrible parents. Nor do we (or any society that I'm aware of) require a license, training, references, or any qualifications for people who procreate.
I used to be firmly in the "spare them the low quality of life" camp, but I've seen plenty of smiling, happy, special-needs people. I've also seen happy parents of DS children. BUT (notice it is a big but) I wonder about the sustainability of that family model. I have neighbors at the end of my street who have an adult DS son. They all seem happy enough, but he's in his thirties (I'm guessing) and his parents aren't getting younger. I don't know how capable he is, other than that he obviously still lives with them, but it seems they will never be free of the responsibility of his care. I'm sure such a decision is easy to make initially but must wear on you as decades pass.
As to the potential burden they pose to society, I'm much more forgiving of supporting people of this sort then those that are capable of caring for themselves but choose not to. That said, I'm also against those that rely on public support taking advantage of it to raise a family. There's a reason these issues are difficult to solve; slippery slopes are real.

 

[StonedLemur]

While I don't think it is a good idea, we don't place any kind of limit on any of the other groups that could end up being horrible parents. Nor do we (or any society that I'm aware of) require a license, training, references, or any qualifications for people who procreate.
I used to be firmly in the "spare them the low quality of life" camp, but I've seen plenty of smiling, happy, special-needs people. I've also seen happy parents of DS children. BUT (notice it is a big but) I wonder about the sustainability of that family model. I have neighbors at the end of my street who have an adult DS son. They all seem happy enough, but he's in his thirties (I'm guessing) and his parents aren't getting younger. I don't know how capable he is, other than that he obviously still lives with them, but it seems they will never be free of the responsibility of his care. I'm sure such a decision is easy to make initially but must wear on you as decades pass.
As to the potential burden they pose to society, I'm much more forgiving of supporting people of this sort then those that are capable of caring for themselves but choose not to. That said, I'm also against those that rely on public support taking advantage of it to raise a family. There's a reason these issues are difficult to solve; slippery slopes are real.

Even though mine was kind of a smartass answer, I fully appreciate that you thought this through sir.
Well written, and I can't really dispute anything you said here.

All good points, and probably the best post in here.
(Bows in respect)

 

[evergreenrider]

While I don't think it is a good idea, we don't place any kind of limit on any of the other groups that could end up being horrible parents. Nor do we (or any society that I'm aware of) require a license, training, references, or any qualifications for people who procreate.
I used to be firmly in the "spare them the low quality of life" camp, but I've seen plenty of smiling, happy, special-needs people. I've also seen happy parents of DS children. BUT (notice it is a big but) I wonder about the sustainability of that family model. I have neighbors at the end of my street who have an adult DS son. They all seem happy enough, but he's in his thirties (I'm guessing) and his parents aren't getting younger. I don't know how capable he is, other than that he obviously still lives with them, but it seems they will never be free of the responsibility of his care. I'm sure such a decision is easy to make initially but must wear on you as decades pass.
As to the potential burden they pose to society, I'm much more forgiving of supporting people of this sort then those that are capable of caring for themselves but choose not to. That said, I'm also against those that rely on public support taking advantage of it to raise a family. There's a reason these issues are difficult to solve; slippery slopes are real.

Well said

 

[abject]

Yikes. How much money do you think the average person pays to subsidize people with Down syndrome?

If we pushed a button and all government funding for people with down syndrom vanished overnight, how much extra cash do you think we'd have?

so again. you demand everyone pay up for your feel good personality. Disabled people require a lot of care. Its very expensive. Tens of millions over their lifespan. My suggestion is, that you and others who support disabled people procreating pay to support them. I believe you should be able to support children if you have them. You clearly believe society should fund raising your children.

 

[Stump]

so again. you demand everyone pay up for your feel good personality. Disabled people require a lot of care. Its very expensive. Tens of millions over their lifespan. My suggestion is, that you and others who support disabled people procreating pay to support them. I believe you should be able to support children if you have them. You clearly believe society should fund raising your children.

so, again - how much money do you think you are being put out? this tens of millions - how much does that boil down to for you, per year, say?

Do you think it's more than 5 dollars? more than a thousand? how much are we talking here?

Humans are social animals, mate. This idea that to care about people who can't easily contribute to the economy you're espousing here, is pretty extreme. It's deep within the human condition to care about and make efforts to support others who can't otherwise support themselves. Where does your idea draw the line? Does anybody who isn't likely to get a job or "contribute" count?

There are plenty of people who are considered "contributing members" of society who are invesment bankers specializing in market domination or environmental destruction or currency devaluation. These people knowingly inflict more harm on the common good than a million people with down syndrome ever could.

 

[Stump]

While I don't think it is a good idea, we don't place any kind of limit on any of the other groups that could end up being horrible parents. Nor do we (or any society that I'm aware of) require a license, training, references, or any qualifications for people who procreate.
I used to be firmly in the "spare them the low quality of life" camp, but I've seen plenty of smiling, happy, special-needs people. I've also seen happy parents of DS children. BUT (notice it is a big but) I wonder about the sustainability of that family model. I have neighbors at the end of my street who have an adult DS son. They all seem happy enough, but he's in his thirties (I'm guessing) and his parents aren't getting younger. I don't know how capable he is, other than that he obviously still lives with them, but it seems they will never be free of the responsibility of his care. I'm sure such a decision is easy to make initially but must wear on you as decades pass.
As to the potential burden they pose to society, I'm much more forgiving of supporting people of this sort then those that are capable of caring for themselves but choose not to. That said, I'm also against those that rely on public support taking advantage of it to raise a family. There's a reason these issues are difficult to solve; slippery slopes are real.

Good post - I'd take issue, for the sake of a productive conversation, with what I would characterize as an oversimplification of the concept of "choice." Given what we know about intergenerational trauma and addiction, it becomes difficult to make such a clean bifurcation between people who choose to be in a shitty situation and those who don't. The question for many just gets moved back one degree - they might have made some terrible, destructive choices, but did they choose the circumstances including their biology, family history, culture, or their environment?

Another slippery slope, and I'm not providing a solution, but it's a complicated issue.

 

[Cyrano200]

Good post - I'd take issue, for the sake of a productive conversation, with what I would characterize as an oversimplification of the concept of "choice." Given what we know about intergenerational trauma and addiction, it becomes difficult to make such a clean bifurcation between people who choose to be in a shitty situation and those who don't. The question for many just gets moved back one degree - they might have made some terrible, destructive choices, but did they choose the circumstances including their biology, family history, culture, or their environment?

Another slippery slope, and I'm not providing a solution, but it's a complicated issue.

I'm not dismissing the trials and tribulations that SOME people who chose not to contribute to society, or at least be responsible for themselves, but I absolutely believe in self-determination. Everyone choses how they interact with the world, you can treat others with a modicum of respect and try to make your own way in the world, or select the other option. Everyone makes mistakes, but if you don't learn from them or even try to move on from them, then that's where my sympathy ends.
You are right that no gets to choose how and to whom they are born, but I will celebrate those that endevour to overcome and disdain those that embrace their victimhood.

 

[UberHere]

Hyper political Progressives having children concern me a lot more.

 

[Stump]

I'm not dismissing the trials and tribulations that SOME people who chose not to contribute to society, or at least be responsible for themselves, but I absolutely believe in self-determination. Everyone choses how they interact with the world, you can treat others with a modicum of respect and try to make your own way in the world, or select the other option. Everyone makes mistakes, but if you don't learn from them or even try to move on from them, then that's where my sympathy ends.
You are right that no gets to choose how and to whom they are born, but I will celebrate those that endevour to overcome and disdain those that embrace their victimhood.

Sure, but you're speaking about extremes here. Not everybody who is in a shitty spot is embracing their victimhood. And even those that are, you can look at that very factor itself as just another thing beyond their control.

I dont believe in free will, I tbink we are all the confluence of factors beyond our control.

I've also worked directly with kids with extreme behavioral challenges, related to neurological and circumstances. We're talking extreme brain damage, a traumatic abusive and/or neglectful upbringing, neurological issues including tourette, OCD, ODD. These kids are dealt the shittiest fucking hand of cards imaginable. Any one of the 5 or 6 challenges they have to deal with, would be enough to seriously challenge anybodys life, and they've got half a dozen, compounding on each other.

Seeing these kids try and negotiate the world and the way the public interacted with them, judging them as shitty kids, I think changed me. These kids represent the extreme end, but the more I've thought about it, everybody is operating with characteristics they didn't choose and one of these characteristics is something like "the ability to make good choices."

I'm not advocating that there should be no such thing as the judicial system or that people shouldn't be held accountable, but it's far, far more complicated than the sort of traditional conservative "you are the rightful recipient of the consequences of your actions" perspective. That would be a much easier world to live in if that waa the case, but it just isn't.