? on lead hook (Muay Thai)

[Noodles03]

When I was in Bangkok, I was taught to throw the lead hook by pivoting your lead foot. I was surprised because I thought this was considered improper due to getting counter by a low kick. Was this style of throwing a hook consider to be a personal preference or is it more of an advance technique for those who have more awareness?

 

[Woldog]

When I was in Bangkok, I was taught to throw the lead hook by pivoting your lead foot. I was surprised because I thought this was considered improper due to getting counter by a low kick. Was this style of throwing a hook consider to be a personal preference or is it more of an advance technique for those who have more awareness?

I was taught that in boxing. Never in Muay Thai training have they suggested that to me though.

 

[StopDucking]

I was taught that in boxing. Never in Muay Thai training have they suggested that to me though.

Some do teach it, Samart Payakaroon for instance.

@Noodles03 just because you're taught a technique doesn't mean you have to use it all the time.

Boxing coaches will always teach you to pivot on the lead hook but if you watch fights, 90% of the time, boxers don't pivot.

You're being taught a technique correctly so you can choose to do all of it or only half of it, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Woldog]

Some do teach it, Samart Payakaroon for instance.

@Noodles03 just because you're taught a technique doesn't mean you have to use it all the time.

Boxing coaches will always teach you to pivot on the lead hook but if you watch fights, 90% of the time, boxers don't pivot.

You're being taught a technique correctly so you can choose to do all of it or only half of it, depending on the circumstances.

Agreed, I don't claim to have trained at every gym in the world though.
But I also don't pivot with my foot in boxing either. Didn't feel right to me so I chose not to do it.
I'm a big supporter of "Do what works for you, not what people tell you is how you should do it".

 

[DoctorTaco]

The lead foot pivot is to make sure you’re turning your hip over. Once a boxer can turn their hip without turning their foot they tend to abandon the foot twist.

 

[Noodles03]

f I ever go back to Thailand I would ask my trainer/Kru about pivoting when throwing the hook.

 

[Sinister]

Most boxers who dont turn their foot on hooks are either:

1) executing a motion where turning the foot isnt optimal. Like stepping

2) Just not thinking about it, many times full power on a punch isnt even necessary to achieve the goal of the punch

3) are leg-lazy, they dont get full rotation on most punches.

I usually remind my fighters what Joe Louis once said when asked the secret of his punching power: "There ain't no secret, you just touch one knee to the other knee."

 

[StopDucking]

Most boxers who dont turn their foot on hooks are either:

1) executing a motion where turning the foot isnt optimal. Like stepping

2) Just not thinking about it, many times full power on a punch isnt even necessary to achieve the goal of the punch

3) are leg-lazy, they dont get full rotation on most punches.

I usually remind my fighters what Joe Louis once said when asked the secret of his punching power: "There ain't no secret, you just touch one knee to the other knee."

4) Not rotating makes it easier to follow up with a cross if needed?

 

[Sinister]

4) Not rotating makes it easier to follow up with a cross if needed?

It shouldn't make it easier. Winding the left hip to rotate the cross following a hook should make the hook way harder than an arm hook, or one with minimal rotational force

BTW- my fighters do this sh*t all the time. Throw punches without rotating their legs properly. I dont harp on it as much as I used to, but they just have to understand that when they throw like this it will only be as hard as they are strong. If they want a punch with MAXIMUM force, they must bend their knees and turn their hips.

 

[StopDucking]

It shouldn't make it easier. Winding the left hip to rotate the cross following a hook should make the hook way harder than an arm hook, or one with minimal rotational force

BTW- my fighters do this sh*t all the time. Throw punches without rotating their legs properly. I dont harp on it as much as I used to, but they just have to understand that when they throw like this it will only be as hard as they are strong. If they want a punch with MAXIMUM force, they must bend their knees and turn their hips.

Can't you still retain 99% of the efficiency of the hook by lifting your heel and rotating your hips without pivoting your foot?

 

[Sinister]

Efficiency is relative. Dependent on what you're trying to do. If by "efficiency" we mean maximum rotational power, no.

 

[shincheckin]

When I was in Bangkok, I was taught to throw the lead hook by pivoting your lead foot. I was surprised because I thought this was considered improper due to getting counter by a low kick. Was this style of throwing a hook consider to be a personal preference or is it more of an advance technique for those who have more awareness?

Rotating is proper technique. Learn to do it correctly, efficiently and strongly before playing with it. My guess is if they were teaching you this, they may have been trying to correct something.

That being said, over rotating on the hook will open you up to leg kicks in Muay Thai, yes it will. There's a video liam Harrison made touching on this. It's been posted before. The same concept goes for the uppercut.

 

[Sinister]

Rotating is proper technique. Learn to do it correctly, efficiently and strongly before playing with it. My guess is if they were teaching you this, they may have been trying to correct something.

That being said, over rotating on the hook will open you up to leg kicks in Muay Thai, yes it will. There's a video liam Harrison made touching on this. It's been posted before. The same concept goes for the uppercut.

Properly rotated hooks also create a blind spot in boxing. For a split-second it's difficult to see, and you have a delayed recovery. They're a higher risk punch than straight punches. A lot of people get knocked out throwing their hooks. I would say as a footnote to earlier, it's not smart to throw a fully-rotated hook unless you're either very sure you're going to land it, or you're setting a trap

 

[shincheckin]

Properly rotated hooks also create a blind spot in boxing. For a split-second it's difficult to see, and you have a delayed recovery. They're a higher risk punch than straight punches. A lot of people get knocked out throwing their hooks. I would say as a footnote to earlier, it's not smart to throw a fully-rotated hook unless you're either very sure you're going to land it, or you're setting a trap

I noticed playing with the palm down hook, seems to pop that shoulder up a bit more to protect the chin.

 

[Sinister]

I noticed playing with the palm down hook, seems to pop that shoulder up a bit more to protect the chin.

That shouldnt be necessary. Torso position should keep your chin below the line of either shoulder when needed. This is one of the areas I divert from the Soviet system as they tend to encourage rolling the shoulders inward. I have a very clicky right shoulder from years of doing that, and Mike (McCallum) had a huge scar on his left shoulder from rotator cuff surgery from stressing that joint too much.

Remember the shoulders are terrible for load-bearing or absorbing force. They are solely intended for rotation. Too much stress and you blow something important. This is why I tend to stress elbow-torso connection.

 

[shincheckin]

That shouldnt be necessary. Torso position should keep your chin below the line of either shoulder when needed. This is one of the areas I divert from the Soviet system as they tend to encourage rolling the shoulders inward. I have a very clicky right shoulder from years of doing that, and Mike (McCallum) had a huge scar on his left shoulder from rotator cuff surgery from stressing that joint too much.

Remember the shoulders are terrible for load-bearing or absorbing force. They are solely intended for rotation. Too much stress and you blow something important. This is why I tend to stress elbow-torso connection.

I tore my labrum on my shoulder and had to get shoulder surgery. It's a very similar injury to a torn rotator cuff. I tore it doing dips. I agree correct position should keep that chin tucked.

I trained with a guy who was having me throw the hooks palm down. It felt like there was quite a bit more pop to it, where as palm up was more looping. I noticed a lot of thais seem to throw palm down as well. But big punchers go palm up. I liked palm up cause there's no need to change the way it's thrown whether I'm going body or head but body punching and just punching in general wasn't my specialty. So although boxing and Muay Thai overlap, I'm not going to pretend like I have a deep understanding of it. Always good to have your input on things. I can recall a fight I had, my boxing coach says to me in-between rounds, hes trying to box you! My immediate thought was f that I'm not trying to get ko lol. So I kicked alot.

 

[Noodles03]

Hi @shincheckin, how are you? Are you still competing?

 

[shincheckin]

Hi @shincheckin, how are you? Are you still competing?

Hey dude! No sir, finally got old lol. Doing good my friend. What's new with you?

 

[Noodles03]

Hey dude! No sir, finally got old lol. Doing good my friend. What's new with you?

Age is just a number you know
That’s good you’re doing well. I was recently in Bangkok doing a bit Muay Thai. Now I need to find a Thai wife that can cook.