Paul Hughes signs with PFL

[careto]

The most baffling thing is that you guys are still havent figured that the UFC doesnt need any of these regional fighters. If they arent willing to play ball then fuck them, they need the UFC more then the other way around.

This has been the UFC playbook for the past 10-15 years and you still act surprised when it happens.

 

[TorontoTO]

The most baffling thing is that you guys are still havent figured that the UFC doesnt need any of these regional fighters. If they arent willing to play ball then fuck them, they need the UFC more then the other way around.

This has been the UFC playbook for the past 10-15 years and you still act surprised when it happens.

UFC could go on to sign just random guys from US regionals and they will still draw numbers. This isn't UFC in 2010 anymore, they don't try to sign all the top prospects, they rely on their name value to get prospects who are chasing that glory instead of actual money.

I think people are just more disappointed then anything

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

It is very obvious over the years the UFC has a formula behind the scenes on how they value any fighter and it pretty scary accurate. No too many times in the last two decades have the UFC really looked stupid for letting a fighter go or not signing a prospect they really wanted. We can all bitch how they pay or what ever but in the end the business formula they have when it comes to fighter pay is one of the key things that helped the UFC not meet the fate of so many other orgs over the decades.

It depends on how you look at it. The UFC really doesn't regret not signing anybody because they're making money hand over fist and it really doesn't matter who they sign. The way that they've monopolized the industry whoever they sign will get the glory and attention by virtue of the fact they're in the UFC compared to any fighter who's not in the UFC.

For an organization with their place in the landscape actually do a pretty terrible job of retaining as much of the best talent in the world as possible. It's very apparent that they only want "The Best of the Best" if they'll play ball. Sometimes even if they will play ball they pass for reasons that aren't especially clear.

 

[Thesnake101]

It depends on how you look at it. The UFC really doesn't regret not signing anybody because they're making money hand over fist and it really doesn't matter who they sign. The way that they've monopolized the industry whoever they sign will get the glory and attention by virtue of the fact they're in the UFC compared to any fighter who's not in the UFC.

For an organization with their place in the landscape actually do a pretty terrible job of retaining as much of the best talent in the world as possible. It's very apparent that they only want "The Best of the Best" if they'll play ball. Sometimes even if they will play ball they pass for reasons that aren't especially clear.

I think wanting to avoid the monopoly accusation also plays a role in how things play out nowadays when it comes to signing new talent/poaching guys from other orgs.

I mean, back in the day they got Lombard and fought for Eddie, I can't see them doing that nowadays. Same thing with them not buying Bellator out - they 100% would've done that a decade ago for bragging rights, influx of talent and the fight library.

It's better for fighters (if PFL continues to truck along), but worse for hardcore fans.

 

[STAY GOLD]

Hard to say without knowing the facts behind it all.

We have no ideal how much interest the UFC had and if they did what kind of offer they laid out or what Hughes people where asking. It seems like orgs like the PFL, Strikeforce, KSW, Bellator, etc over the years have no problem guaranteeing a better bottom line than the UFC and the UFC likes to dangle the carrot of start low with a smaller guarantee bottom line but a larger pay in the end if this, that, or whatever happens over the course of the contract. Many times a guy like Hughes who isn't set in the money department taking the better guarantee over "x" amount of fights is a much safer bet right now. Plus all these fighters believe next time around I can get a better offer from the UFC after I show them on this stage, all while building their nest egg, especially when your mid 20's.

It is very obvious over the years the UFC has a formula behind the scenes on how they value any fighter and it pretty scary accurate. No too many times in the last two decades have the UFC really looked stupid for letting a fighter go or not signing a prospect they really wanted. We can all bitch how they pay or what ever but in the end the business formula they have when it comes to fighter pay is one of the key things that helped the UFC not meet the fate of so many other orgs over the decades.

 

[GSP_37]

Who's his daddy?

 

[MMALOPEZ]

Not only for regional guys, but for UFC fighters as well.

The grand majority of the fighters in the UFC won't make that in 3-4 fights.

I’ll say in their careers

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

I think wanting to avoid the monopoly accusation also plays a role in how things play out nowadays when it comes to signing new talent/poaching guys from other orgs.

I mean, back in the day they got Lombard and fought for Eddie, I can't see them doing that nowadays. Same thing with them not buying Bellator out - they 100% would've done that a decade ago for bragging rights, influx of talent and the fight library.

It's better for fighters (if PFL continues to truck along), but worse for hardcore fans.

I don't think it's worse for hardcore fans. It's worse for UFC marks, they just don't realize/care. Whenever a fighter signs for not the UFC everyone always says how disappointing it is. Why is the prospect of Paul Hughes vs Shabily, Usman, McKee, Wilson, Baranoui, Paranasse, Primus, Collard etc disappointing? To hardcore fans I mean. The ones who know who the people I just named are. Plus with the smaller roster PFL has the chances of these fights actually happening is much greater. The UFC's roster is so big that fighters never fight all of the top contenders in a weight class. Especially 155. Guys get lost in the shuffle, there's so many options that getting ahead requires politicking and the UFC is infamous for playing favorites. If you don't believe me just look at the last 5 years of title fights/scheduled ones. At least a guy like Paul Hughes knows that if he strings together some wins he'll get a chance to fight for the title. There's tons of compelling match ups at 155 that haven't happened yet in PFLlator.

 

[Thesnake101]

I don't think it's worse for hardcore fans. It's worse for UFC marks, they just don't realize/care. Whenever a fighter signs for not the UFC everyone always says how disappointing it is. Why is the prospect of Paul Hughes vs Shabily, Usman, McKee, Wilson, Baranoui, Paranasse, Primus, Collard etc disappointing? To hardcore fans I mean. The ones who know who the people I just named are. Plus with the smaller roster PFL has the chances of these fights actually happening is much greater. The UFC's roster is so big that fighters never fight all of the top contenders in a weight class. Especially 155. Guys get lost in the shuffle, there's so many options that getting ahead requires politicking and the UFC is infamous for playing favorites. If you don't believe me just look at the last 5 years of title fights/scheduled ones. At least a guy like Paul Hughes knows that if he strings together some wins he'll get a chance to fight for the title. There's tons of compelling match ups at 155 that haven't happened yet in PFLlator.

There's no telling if those matchups will come to be though, Shabliy is open about his issues with PFL and the Usman fight just fell through, again.

For me, Barnaoui isn't the most compelling matchup since we've seen that he's a very flawed prospect and not the elite talent I hoped he'd be. Primus is getting older, AJ's probably sticking to the Bellator side of things for the time being, etc.

But the biggest issue getting in between those fights is the format - it's very obvious that PFL will engage in favorable matchmaking if it means pushing someone they've invested in forward, and even if it backfires from time to time, that's still a slot taking up the place of a more promising fight. If the org and the fighters stick around for a few years, then sure, we could see those fights happen, but if they don't, what then?

Them putting the bare minimum amount of shows for Bellator also gets in the way of making compelling matchups.

 

[TorontoTO]

I don't think it's worse for hardcore fans. It's worse for UFC marks, they just don't realize/care. Whenever a fighter signs for not the UFC everyone always says how disappointing it is. Why is the prospect of Paul Hughes vs Shabily, Usman, McKee, Wilson, Baranoui, Paranasse, Primus, Collard etc disappointing? To hardcore fans I mean. The ones who know who the people I just named are. Plus with the smaller roster PFL has the chances of these fights actually happening is much greater. The UFC's roster is so big that fighters never fight all of the top contenders in a weight class. Especially 155. Guys get lost in the shuffle, there's so many options that getting ahead requires politicking and the UFC is infamous for playing favorites. If you don't believe me just look at the last 5 years of title fights/scheduled ones. At least a guy like Paul Hughes knows that if he strings together some wins he'll get a chance to fight for the title. There's tons of compelling match ups at 155 that haven't happened yet in PFLlator.

I'm only disappointed when someone signs with ONE honestly

 

[skylolow]

Pretty much what I expected.

Low UFC offer that if he got into details probably would've taking x, x, and x to happen to get to where the PFL was starting out at. Basically shows the UFC had little interest for whatever reason.

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

There's no telling if those matchups will come to be though, Shabliy is open about his issues with PFL and the Usman fight just fell through, again.

For me, Barnaoui isn't the most compelling matchup since we've seen that he's a very flawed prospect and not the elite talent I hoped he'd be. Primus is getting older, AJ's probably sticking to the Bellator side of things for the time being, etc.

But the biggest issue getting in between those fights is the format - it's very obvious that PFL will engage in favorable matchmaking if it means pushing someone they've invested in forward, and even if it backfires from time to time, that's still a slot taking up the place of a more promising fight. If the org and the fighters stick around for a few years, then sure, we could see those fights happen, but if they don't, what then?

Them putting the bare minimum amount of shows for Bellator also gets in the way of making compelling matchups.

But there's also no telling if matchup X is going to happen in the UFC either. With less total match-ups available the chances of the fights I listed are still more likely to happen then your 8 favorite Paul Hughes in the UFC fights. That's my point.

Baranoui's problem is that he's the same basic fighter he was a decade ago. That fighter is still dangerous though. He's going to tear through Yache in a few weeks. He's very good, even his losses to Primus and Wilson don't change that for me considering he still did all the cool Baranoui stuff he's always done. That said yeah, when he got signed he was being heralded as a real challenge for Usman and I think that idea is dead. I'd love to see him fight Paul Hughes though tbh. Think that'd be a great first fight for Paul, actually.

I agree about the format bits for the most part. I really don't like that they've decided to keep the Bellator name alive. Just name them PFL Champion Series or something. I think they need to make the season a core part of their identity but be more flexible with guys outside of the tournament. Think of it as a thing to supplant the main roster rather than the main roster supplanting the season. There's favorable matchmaking in all promotions, UFC included. This is just a reality. At least now in PFL, particularly the season unless it's WFLW and you're Dakota Ditcheva there's not that many places to hide.

 

[CC27]

It just didn't seem like the UFC wanted Hughes for god knows what reason. They've had loads of chances to sign him at any point over the last 2-3 years and just never did.

Didnt he say they did offer him two fights but he had to turn them now? Could be he really wanted to go to PFL so he didnt take those fights when offered and fought out his CW contract.

And from UFC POV I know every fighter is different but look at alot of the CW champs recently. Hardwick and Cartwright couldnt even make it through contender series. Modestas, Jones, Mckee, aint exactly great, Garry is doing well though. and again I know every fighters is different but UFC is gonna look at that like we're gonna pay him 6 figures like he's already a top guy when he's fighting in regional CW org. Thats just not what they do.

They'll pay him what they'll pay any other CW champs coming over, maybe a little more but look at someone like Garry. 7 fights and he's making 55/55 so he didnt come in making alot of money and he's still not making alot. Put him in CW right now as a free agent he'd get that or more from PFL straight out of the regionals. Difference is he took what UFC offered, Hughes didnt.

 

[TorontoTO]

Didnt he say they did offer him two fights but he had to turn them now? Could be he really wanted to go to PFL so he didnt take those fights when offered and fought out his CW contract.

And from UFC POV I know every fighter is different but look at alot of the CW champs recently. Hardwick and Cartwright couldnt even make it through contender series. Modestas, Jones, Mckee, aint exactly great, Garry is doing well though. and again I know every fighters is different but UFC is gonna look at that like we're gonna pay him 6 figures like he's already a top guy when he's fighting in regional CW org. Thats just not what they do.

They'll pay him what they'll pay any other CW champs coming over, maybe a little more but look at someone like Garry. 7 fights and he's making 55/55 so he didnt come in making alot of money and he's still not making alot. Put him in CW right now as a free agent he'd get that or more from PFL straight out of the regionals. Difference is he took what UFC offered, Hughes didnt.

TBH Hughes has faced way better competition then the other CW champs you listed, Jan Quaeyhaegens, James Hendin, Morgan Charriere, Vucenic

 

[CC27]

TBH Hughes has faced way better competition then the other CW champs you listed, Jan Quaeyhaegens, James Hendin, Morgan Charriere, Vucenic

I know but he's still a regional guy and UFC aint gonna pay for that, we know this. Now if he became a big deal in Bellator or PFL they'd maybe pay as we've seen with MVP and Chandler but they aint doing that for regional talent. Esp when they will have 45 new signings in the summer with the contender series all willing to take 12/12.

 

[Dn10]

They offered him 2x last year but once he was injured and once he has visa trouble given it was a short notice fight. Also offered him a spot on TUF with Conor.

 

[careto]

PFL is obviously overpaying for a guy that outside of hardcores nobody knows who the fuck he is. They are treating this as some Earth-shattering, game-changer signing. However, your regular fan wont give two shits about him. Good for Hughes but another step in the direction of financial ruin.

 

[TITS]

Is this Matt Hughes' brother?

 

[spinup]

It is very obvious over the years the UFC has a formula behind the scenes on how they value any fighter and it pretty scary accurate. No too many times in the last two decades have the UFC really looked stupid for letting a fighter go or not signing a prospect they really wanted. We can all bitch how they pay or what ever but in the end the business formula they have when it comes to fighter pay is one of the key things that helped the UFC not meet the fate of so many other orgs over the decades.

They offered 20K/20K to Doumbe who singlehandedly sold out a 20000 seats arena in minutes in PFL, on a thursday night card. PFL pay him 6 figures and make a substantial return on investment.
And on the opposite side of bad business decisions, they were paying Greg fucking Hardy over 150K per fight.

They overpay for old glories and underpay for prospects with big potential. It's a sign of a company who struggles with long term vision, IMHO.

 

[careto]

They offered 20K/20K to Doumbe who singlehandedly sold out a 20000 seats arena in minutes in PFL, on a thursday night card. PFL pay him 6 figures and make a substantial return on investment.
And on the opposite side of bad business decisions, they were paying Greg fucking Hardy over 150K per fight.

They overpay for old glories and underpay for prospects with big potential. It's a sign of a company who struggles with long term vision, IMHO.

Where do you get his idea that PFL makes a "substantial return of investment" on Doumbe? Sure, he fills out arenas but those tickets go for around $50 so, IDK that PFL was making a "substancial return of investment". Add to the fact that they pay UFC washouts 6-figures to embarass themselves and you have a recipe for disaster.