Poatan's BJJ level

[yetanother]

Ok but why would someone in the latter group get promoted to brown belt level for instance.

Overwhelming the criteria for belt promotion in my experience is: Can you routinely tap out someone your own size and belt level. However you get there, whether you use the coaches favourite techniques or some shit you saw on youtube is secondary.

I've seen a few questionable promotions or guys getting promoted for tenure but they are generally the exception rather than the standard.

Promotions for tenure are the stndard. People get better with tenure kind of. There are tons of people who aren't any good at BJJ but when they get their black belts they can kind of do decent in rolls just buy countering mistakes and forcing some things. The propably won't go shit again Potan just because they are not technical enough to do shit against way stronger people.

 

[Forceof1]

Soon to be UFC champion Ben Henderson gets tapped by hobbyist purple in local tournament;

Wow.. today I learned that the guy who finished second place in a tournament designed to have the best brown belts in the world (only lost to keenan) is a hobbyist.

Reeeeallllly bad take here.

 

[EndlessCritic]

I wouldn't hire Poatan to be your BJJ coach or to teach you submissions, but he knows enough to survive and defend against elite grapplers.

 

[Stuart0502]

Wow.. today I learned that the guy who finished second place in a tournament designed to have the best brown belts in the world (only lost to keenan) is a hobbyist.

Reeeeallllly bad take here.

Well I didn't know who that guy was specifically tbh.

The point was that being a pro MMA fighter with an S & C coach doesn't automatically mean you can beat a sport BJJ guy in sport BJJ even if that guy has to train around a full time job and likely can't afford a S & C coach.

There are other examples of Bendo losing in sport BJJ;



Of course he would beat those guys easily in MMA. I doubt any of these grapplers earned enough money from their matches to be considered professional athletes.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

This could get into a semantic argument as to what exactly is a hobbyist.

What he probably was, was an 18 year old BJJ purple belt living with his parent/parents whilst having no financial responsibilities and doing 10-20 BJJ classes a week.

I don't know his background in detail but I'd be very surprised to hear he was earning a professional grappler income at that point, to fund a nutritionist, S & C coach, sport psychologist etc.

It has nothing to do with semantics, He was never was and isn't a hobbyist. Period.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Well I didn't know who that guy was specifically tbh.

They why run your mouth like you were the be all end all.

 

[randomg1t]

Soon to be UFC champion Ben Henderson gets tapped by hobbyist purple in local tournament;



At the time UFC champion Robert Whittaker gets tapped by hobbyist brown belt who looks 10-15kg lighter;



I imagine you could find a fair few examples of guys in the UFC getting tapped by guys sport BJJ guys with full time jobs if you really looked into it. Not to mention the best BJJ for MMA guys always lose to elite sport BJJ guys in sport BJJ.

Well I didn't know who that guy was specifically tbh.

The point was that being a pro MMA fighter with an S & C coach doesn't automatically mean you can beat a sport BJJ guy in sport BJJ even if that guy has to train around a full time job and likely can't afford a S & C coach.

There are other examples of Bendo losing in sport BJJ;



Of course he would beat those guys easily in MMA. I doubt any of these grapplers earned enough money from their matches to be considered professional athletes.

why are you trying to portray bendo as an example of someone who isn't a good competitor in BJJ? you realize he got a bronze medal at the fucking mundials at brown belt, right?

i mean yeah, he didn't win every match he ever had and he probably has losses to people who aren't professional athletes, but if you're trying to find an example of someone who isn't a legit brown belt competitor, you should maybe find someone who's never medaled at worlds.

 

[Kforcer]

I doubt that very much. UFC fighters are top tier in terms of strength and athleticism and pretty much all know how to grapple. If you say a "UFC purple" it means a UFC fighter who follows some kind of BJJ curriculum so were are not talking about the few UFC fighters that can only strike and are getting favourable matchups.
A UFC purple will ruin a hobbyist purple. Too worlds. I am surprised some people don't know this.

I don't know that I agree with this. I think if you're talking the top 10 in the UFC or even top 20 maybe, that's one thing and you might be right. But people who compete or have competed in the UFC...? There are certainly fighters who have competed in the UFC and qualify as "UFC fighters" that are wouldn't necessarily be successful competing at regional grappling tournaments and that don't necessarily have solid grappling fundamentals and definitely wouldn't tend to be the best in the room or one of the best at your average BJJ open mat or end of class rolling session.

 

[Kforcer]

why are you trying to portray bendo as an example of someone who isn't a good competitor in BJJ? you realize he got a bronze medal at the fucking mundials at brown belt, right?

i mean yeah, he didn't win every match he ever had and he probably has losses to people who aren't professional athletes, but if you're trying to find an example of someone who isn't a legit brown belt competitor, you should maybe find someone who's never medaled at worlds.

Ben Henderson is an absolute beast at grappling. He beat one of my favorite grapplers, Leozado Nogueira, who is highly decorate and who qualified for the ADCC in which they met with guillotine submissions in every match.

 

[Kforcer]

Well I didn't know who that guy was specifically tbh.

You're a great poster but I think its unfair to label a guy out as a "hobbyist" without knowing his background, especially when your only frame of reference for him was an impressive performance where he submitted a decorated UFC fighter.

 

[TheMaster]

Not really. I trained with a top 10 UFC heavyweight and have guy in our gym who don't train full time who are on a completely different level in terms of athleticism. The ability to successfully punch someone hard in the face beats any level of athleticisim.

This.
What I am getting most from this vid is that Poatans athleticism is not exceptional compared to most of these hobbyists; his ground grappling technique does not appear to be significantly better, and even worse than quite a few he trains with at the commercial class level; even his cardio, surprisingly, doeant appear to be significantly better given how worn out he looks from the general warm up.

What sets him apart however, is his ability to take and receive damage. This is on a whole different level than any non pro fighter could ever hope to develop. That if he hit the guys there full whack even once standing or on the ground, whether blue belt to black belt, 95% of them would be curled in a ball on the mat tapping and that would be it. That is the major difference.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I don't know that I agree with this. I think if you're talking the top 10 in the UFC or even top 20 maybe, that's one thing and you might be right. But people who compete or have competed in the UFC...? There are certainly fighters who have competed in the UFC and qualify as "UFC fighters" that are wouldn't necessarily be successful competing at regional grappling tournaments and that don't necessarily have solid grappling fundamentals and definitely wouldn't tend to be the best in the room or one of the best at your average BJJ open mat or end of class rolling session.

Yeah bro given the backlash I got on my comment I decided that I wasn't going to die on that hill, haha.
Let's just say that my comment is based on anecdotal stuff that I witnessed but I am sure that people here are more qualified to have an opinion on the matter.

 

[Kforcer]

Yeah bro given the backlash I got on my comment I decided that I wasn't going to die on that hill, haha.
Let's just say that my comment is based on anecdotal stuff that I witnessed but I am sure that people here are more qualified to have an opinion on the matter.

I'm not trying to bash on you man, honestly, just thinking of some people that I've trained with or coached. Some of them definitely never really learned the fundamentals of grappling. But to be fair, making a one to one comparison between people like some of the guys I'm thinking of and sport BJJ hobbyists is sort of tricky unless you see them in that environment.

There's definitely something to what you're saying--as always--but I've definitely experienced pro MMA guys who looked at grappling as an afterthought and who seemed to never really learn to grapple. Some of them, it was almost like their grappling game was the equivalent to an experienced street fighter's striking game; there might've been some tricks picked up in the course of experience and a certain gameness, but basic things that were missing as well.

Maybe I was just a crappy coach sometimes because some of the guys I'm thinking of are people I was, at least in part, tasked with imparting fundamentals to.