Real talk could Gane stop Dan Severns game?

[The Last King]

Yeah it woudn't be easy, but I reckon you should beat Howard assuming you're a decent size.

Fuck fighting Tank Abbott.

That's fair.

 

[The Judo Champ]

That's fair.

Literally my point lol. So you agree with me as long as someone else is saying it? lol

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Literally my point lol. So you agree with me as long as someone else is saying it? lol

You were saying people with no training who just watched MMA could beat Howard and Hackney.

 

[The Last King]

Literally my point lol. So you agree with me as long as someone else is saying it? lol

The guy I was initially talking to said "your average fit MMA fan would win UFC 1-5"

I told him that Harold Howard would punch a hole through a an "average fit MMA Fans" head

Then you came in claiming you would beat Harold Howard which is debatable but also moot because you're not some "average fit MMA fan"

You actually train so it's differnt argument altogether.

 

[The Judo Champ]

You were saying people with no training who just watched MMA could beat Howard and Hackney.

I think some could for sure. watching mma is more grappling experience then these guys had at the time.they literally didn’t know what jujitsu was. Neither guy was overly fit either and only trained in karate. They both did poorly in the lowest level of mma.

I’m completely on board with the others you mentioned but I don’t see anything above average in either of those dudes.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think some could for sure. watching mma is more grappling experience then these guys had at the time.they literally didn’t know what jujitsu was. Neither guy was overly fit either and only trained in karate. They both did poorly in the lowest level of mma.

I’m completely on board with the others you mentioned but I don’t see anything above average in either of those dudes.

Normal people can't wrestle lol, how are they going to get it to the floor while panicking and getting punched in the face?

 

[mkt]

Neither guy was overly fit either and only trained in karate. They both did poorly in the lowest level of mma.

Howard was no D1 wrestler or modern BJJ champ. However, he knew more about grappling than the average big guy in 1994 as he shows here. He trained in traditional jiu-jitsu, whatever that was in Canada in the 80s and early 90s. While I agree that Howard wasn't "overly fit," he didn't look bad compared to many current HWs, especially at age 36.

 

[Guffman]

3. I’ve had 2 amateur Muay their fights, Brown belt in Judo, blue belt in bjj and I’ve competed dozens of times in both. Hackney and Howard are no better than 2 middle aged guys you’d find in a bar in my opinion.

You're just trolling now, right? Well, good job, you had me going there for awhile.

 

[Guffman]

Howard was no D1 wrestler or modern BJJ champ. However, he knew more about grappling than the average big guy in 1994 as he shows here. He trained in traditional jiu-jitsu, whatever that was in Canada in the 80s and early 90s. While I agree that Howard wasn't "overly fit," he didn't look bad compared to many current HWs, especially at age 36.

Man, those were the days. Every time I'd drop by my local Hollywood Video, I'd be hoping a new UFC tape would show up on the shelf.

 

[mkt]

You're just trolling now, right? Well, good job, you had me going there for awhile.

Exactly. I looked for a "middle-aged guy in a bar" photo and this came up. Howard and Hackney take all 6 of them at the same time.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

A short period of training in something effective is more meaningful than a lifetime of Ineffective training.

guy mezger is a legit martial artist with a successful mma career. Hackney and Howard are not.

just because these guys fought in the ufc doesn’t mean they were effective martial artists. Big balls to step in but the bar was very low back then

Right, but the statement wasn't exclusively about Hackney. It was the average fit fan can beat up everyone from UFC 1-5 with a month of training. Which quite frankly is really dumb, the existence of Hackney doesn't really change that. It's also open weight so most people would struggle with these guys based on that alone.

Beating up a sumo wrestler with a few jiu jitsu classes is not that easy when you are 160 pounds. It's a real fight not a spar.

Can CM Punk, someone who is way more fit than people who regularly exercise and trained in MMA for years not just one month beat up prime Ken Shamrock? Most people in both MMA and Pro Wrestling would probably say no.

 

[biomed190]

Dan was no joke at wrestling. I know he had wins over Blatnick and was an AA wrestling. It would have been pretty hectic, and he would probably eat some leather on the way in but if he got a hold of Gane he would have sent him for a ride. Gane's ground game is terrible and Severn had a good beard. So it isn't out of the realm of possibility to think Severn could throw Gane on his head and pound him out or submit him.

 

[The Judo Champ]

Right, but the statement wasn't exclusively about Hackney. It was the average fit fan can beat up everyone from UFC 1-5 with a month of training. Which quite frankly is really dumb, the existence of Hackney doesn't really change that. It's also open weight so most people would struggle with these guys based on that alone.

Beating up a sumo wrestler with a few jiu jitsu classes is not that easy when you are 160 pounds. It's a real fight not a spar.

Can CM Punk, someone who is way more fit than people who regularly exercise and trained in MMA for years not just one month beat up prime Ken Shamrock? Most people in both MMA and Pro Wrestling would probably say no.

1. I never said they could win an early ufc. I just said they could beat the karate fellas

2. cm punk is not way more fit than people who regularly train and exercise. Dude is an overrated slob lol.

 

[The Judo Champ]

Normal people can't wrestle lol, how are they going to get it to the floor while panicking and getting punched in the face?

I don’t think eithers striking was overly good either. Jo son do was a crazy street bum and he got 1 to the floor and almost subbed him. Only other guy Hackney beat was morbidly obese. The morbidly obese guy was also the only one either beat that actually had a win in mma and it was by “smother”.

Howard who despite being a massive heavy hitting tank like you claim was easily taken down and submitted to punches in 1.5 mins or less in 3/4 of his fights. Aka he had no idea what he was doing on the ground, quickly gassed and quit. Literally watch any out of his 4 mma fights and try to say he’s a decent grappler. Despise his fake credentials he was easily taken down in everyone of his matches and 3/4 times quickly gave up once there. In striking he bounced around with his hands down and legs straight= average bar brawler fight ability.

you must be some karate nerd or something to be hyping these guys up because both were awful and that is clear lol

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I don’t think eithers striking was overly good either. Jo son do was a crazy street bum and he got 1 to the floor and almost subbed him. Only other guy Hackney beat was morbidly obese. The morbidly obese guy was also the only one either beat that actually had a win in mma and it was by “smother”.

Howard who despite being a massive heavy hitting tank like you claim was easily taken down and submitted to punches in 1.5 mins or less in 3/4 of his fights. Aka he had no idea what he was doing on the ground, quickly gassed and quit. Literally watch any out of his 4 mma fights and try to say he’s a decent grappler. Despise his fake credentials he was easily taken down in everyone of his matches and 3/4 times quickly gave up once there. In striking he bounced around with his hands down and legs straight= average bar brawler fight ability.

you must be some karate nerd or something to be hyping these guys up because both were awful and that is clear lol

I'm not hyping them up. I'm just saying they could beat up normal people who are in shape and watch MMA and don't train.

I could beat people who are in shape and watch MMA and don't train and I wouldn't hype myself up lol.

 

[Yrat]

Not joking.

Gane needed three rounds to beat Derrick Lewis and Tai Tuivasa while Sergey Pavlovich more or less 60 seconds.

So it feels like no ,Dan Severn would have won.

 

[lagofala]

Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, and Oleg Taktarov would massacre every one of your hypothetical one-month Joe Schmoes. It'd be like when Randy Couture was on that old Spike show Pros vs. Joes. The pros would kill the Joes.



Except that Royce hadn't been training for just a month. He'd spent his entire life doing BJJ with his entire family of BJJ killers. That's not a one-month Joe Schmoe triangle, that's an expert triangle.

To the point of this thread, even beyond your hypothetical one-month Joe Schmoes, do you think that even UFC 4 Severn, who knew nothing but wrestling holds, would be in danger of getting triangled from the bottom by Gane?

Gane gets taken down and manhandled by UFC 4 Severn and he possibly gets stopped by GNP by UFC 5 Severn.



This is why I brought up the Rizzo example. It took six years and 50 fights for Severn to run into a striker who could stop his TDs and punish him on the feet. Shamrock stopped his TDs, but he wasn't going to hurt him on the feet. Tank, Pat Miletich, Brad Kohler, they all had better striking than Severn, but they couldn't defend against his wrestling. To be able to both stop Severn's wrestling attack and be nasty enough on the feet to put him away quickly, that's a tall order, which is why it was only Rizzo who managed to do it.

Generously, and for the sake of argument, let's say that it takes Severn three attempts for every one successful TD. During that time on the feet, is Gane a vicious enough striker to put Severn away? Or will he land a few low kicks, land a few front kicks, maybe a jab or a straight, score points...before then getting taken down and pummeled, perhaps even pounded out or - based on Jones' quick and dirty guillotine and based on Severn's catch-wrestling and his ability to lock up chokes on the ground - tapped out on the ground?

It's certainly possible that Gane finds a way to keep the fight standing and either win on points or stop Severn with strikes, but IMO the likeliest outcome is Severn controlling the fight with his wrestling and either winning by decision or stopping the fight on the ground with GNP or a choke.



It was the same striking - and wrestling - that allowed him to maul Tank, who had insane punching power, a wrestling background, and size and strength. If you're thinking Gane can do to Severn what Cro Cop did to Mark Coleman or what Chuck Liddell did to Randy Couture, then you're overestimating Gane and underestimating Severn IMO.

Gane's probably jabs his way to a win against Severn. Tank was a brawler, Gane is a high level kickboxer with some takedown defence.

Couture on Pros vs Joe was light years ahead of anyone from UFC 1-5.
I'm saying putting UFC 1-5 Royce against someone with specific training against him in 2023 for a month and with reasonable level of fitness would make Royce the Art Jimmerson in this hypothetical scenario.

 

[Bullitt68]

Gane's probably jabs his way to a win against Severn. Tank was a brawler, Gane is a high level kickboxer with some takedown defence.

Tank had big power and a strong wrestling background. Gane has neither.

Couture on Pros vs Joe was light years ahead of anyone from UFC 1-5.

The point is the large discrepancy in skills and experience between Couture and the Joes, which would also be the case if some hypothetical one-month Joe Schmoe stepped into the cage against Ken Shamrock or Dan Severn.

I'm saying putting UFC 1-5 Royce against someone with specific training against him in 2023 for a month and with reasonable level of fitness would make Royce the Art Jimmerson in this hypothetical scenario.

Before the UFC, there was this thing called the Gracie Challenge. You picking Royce for this scenario, you're basically revamping the Gracie Challenge. And your hypothetical one-month Joe Schmoe would get dealt with the same way everyone else on those tapes did.

Trust me, dude. When I was in high school, I was an athlete and an MMA fan and I trained BJJ and MT for a year. If I would've stepped into the Octagon with Gracie, or Shamrock, or Severn, or Taktarov, even with twelve months of training, they would've eaten me for lunch.

 

[Limit Smasher]

2023 Dan Severn would mop the floor with Gane.

 

[nonoob]

No problem. Dan would simply fold under Dana and Gane's pressure. /s