See THIS is why people don't like vegans/vegetarians:

[mschatz]

Not before you can eat solid food there isn't. Veganism causes inadequate production of breastmilk, and vegan baby formula is fortified with all kinds of vitamins and other shit. So if you're talking about getting all kinds of nutrients from non-animal sources and artificially supplementing them into baby formula, then yes, I guess it is viable. Then again, I've also heard (from a formerly vegan friend) that after 30 or so years of eating a vegan diet you get all kinds of health problems, but that may be from lack of proper nutrition.

Edit: You might also want to bring up that as rich Americans, we can afford things like artificially supplemented vegan baby formulas, but elsewhere in the world where money isn't in such abundance it would be difficult if not impossible for some to obtain enough vegan formula.

Quick note - Not arguing veganism, but vegetarianism.

I like your last point

 

[Saith]

Quick note - Not arguing veganism, but vegetarianism.

I like your last point

Ahh, vegetarianism is a different beast. I don't think there's any official reason we couldn't survive as vegetarians (assuming dairy and eggs). But caging chickens all day and penning cattle mights still be considered "cruel" treatment.

 

[Michael Wanaka]

I've only met one normal vegetarian in my life. ONE.

 

[mschatz]

Ahh, vegetarianism is a different beast. I don't think there's any official reason we couldn't survive as vegetarians (assuming dairy and eggs). But caging chickens all day and penning cattle mights still be considered "cruel" treatment.

We could def survive. But is it as healthy as an ominovre's diet?

 

[Saith]

We could def survive. But is it as healthy as an ominovre's diet?

I'll leave that one for KK or someone more knowledgeable on the topic. Personally I see no reason why it couldn't work as well....

 

[BabyRj**]

"I will not argue faith any longer," turns attention to the waiter, "I'll have the new york strip steak, rare."

Amen.

Why debate over it? If they wanna eat that way, then let it be. I'm always up for agreeing to disagree.

ALTHOUGH, sometimes vegans will try to convert you just like a fucking mormon or jehovah's witness, the old hellfire and brimstone tactic. I mean seriously, have some consideration, you don't see me going around Keying vegan's cars for having vinyl seats. Or preaching to everyone around me to eat the flesh of mammals.

 

[AbdominalSnoman]

Edit: You might also want to bring up that as rich Americans, we can afford things like artificially supplemented vegan baby formulas, but elsewhere in the world where money isn't in such abundance it would be difficult if not impossible for some to obtain enough vegan formula.

QFT If your counrties "poor" are fat then you don't have poverty. In places with true poverty only the wealthy have the means to eat too much. Think about harsher times in this country like the dustbowl. Ruined farmers left with their possesions loaded onto their CARS. Even in "hard" times our country has been fortunate compared to much of the world.

 

[Urban]

Amen.

Why debate over it? If they wanna eat that way, then let it be. I'm always up for agreeing to disagree.

ALTHOUGH, sometimes vegans will try to convert you just like a fucking mormon or jehovah's witness, the old hellfire and brimstone tactic. I mean seriously, have some consideration, you don't see me going around Keying vegan's cars for having vinyl seats. Or preaching to everyone around me to eat the flesh of mammals.

It concerns me only if there's another life involved. A pregnant person and person feeding a baby needs to be well versed in appropriate nutrition, beyond that, they can malnourish themselves all they want for all I care.

 

[noise666]

It concerns me only if there's another life involved. A pregnant person and person feeding a baby needs to be well versed in appropriate nutrition, beyond that, they can malnourish themselves all they want for all I care.

Oh geez. Is this some pro-life opinion now? First off, my wifes best friend has given birth to two kids while she was on a vegan diet, and her kids are vegan also. Her kids are now 8. It can be done without much trouble.

 

[Urban]

Oh geez. Is this some pro-life opinion now? First off, my wifes best friend has given birth to two kids while she was on a vegan diet, and her kids are vegan also. Her kids are now 8. It can be done without much trouble.

I haven't said it can't be done asshole, only that you need more than just propaganda, faith, and sentiment to do it. There's no need to be a prick when I'm willing to live and let live, so shut your fucking trap. Rarely do I feel so unjustly attacked and purposefully misinterpreted and misrepresented. Save your rhetoric for somebody deserving, cause if you want to eat leaves, hug trees and bugger badgers, that's your fucking life to lead, and I'm not here to make people more like me. My concern is only the impact on people who have no choice, and that every parent be conscious of said impact and devoted to the best interests of their children, influenced more by science and results than sensationalism.

You CAN be vegan and healthy, I choose to be non-vegan and healthy. So save your bullshit for somebody who believes otherwise. You attack me unjustly again and I'll shitcan you so fast it'll make your head spin.

 

[Lubaolong]

Yes. I disagree with recommending Soy protein for males because it's been scientifically proven to reduce testosterone levels. So if Soy's all you got, that won't do.

That's not even what we were talking about. We were talking about whether or not there were complete veggie proteins.

As for your claim, it isn't scientifically proven to reduce testosterone levels. What research does say is that there is a correlation between slight decreases in testosterone and soy use. Correlation is not causation. The slight decrease could be attributed to the high fiber content or lower saturated fat intake, which are also both correlated with decrease in testosterone levels. For ever study you can find against soy, you can 10 stating numerous health benefits and that there isn't a significant decrease in testosterone, which isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. My point is that there is not any consensus of negative effects of soy.

And I'm not recommending you to start eating soy. You asked which plant sources are complete proteins, and I told you one. I'm not a nutrition researcher, so I'm not going to argue with anyone about whether or not they should eat a certain food. I don't care what you eat. I've read quite a bit of journal articles about soy, and I feel the general consensus is that it's good for me, so I am not going to go out of my way to avoid it.

 

[Saith]

That's not even what we were talking about. We were talking about whether or not there were complete veggie proteins.

As for your claim, it isn't scientifically proven to reduce testosterone levels. What research does say is that there is a correlation between slight decreases in testosterone and soy use. Correlation is not causation. The slight decrease could be attributed to the high fiber content or lower saturated fat intake, which are also both correlated with decrease in testosterone levels. For ever study you can find against soy, you can 10 stating numerous health benefits and that there isn't a significant decrease in testosterone, which isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. My point is that there is not any consensus of negative effects of soy.

And I'm not recommending you to start eating soy. You asked which plant sources are complete proteins, and I told you one. I'm not a nutrition researcher, so I'm not going to argue with anyone about whether or not they should eat a certain food. I don't care what you eat. I've read quite a bit of journal articles about soy, and I feel the general consensus is that it's good for me, so I am not going to go out of my way to avoid it.

Prove it.

 

[BabyRj**]

Lol, it seems you are a little butthurt luba.

 

[Lubaolong]

Why debate over it? If they wanna eat that way, then let it be. I'm always up for agreeing to disagree.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not telling anyone how to eat. Why is everyone so worried about what I'm eating?

 

[Saith]

That's what I'm saying. I'm not telling anyone how to eat. Why is everyone so worried about what I'm eating?

I don't think anyone is. They are more worried about the broad generalizations you keep making.

 

[Lubaolong]

Prove it.

I think the sheer fact that large nutrition bodies advocate soy usage should be fact enough. I'm not going out of my way to argue with someone on the internet about eating soy. Someone made a comment, and I told them why I didn't avoid soy. If you want to think soy is the devil and avoid it, that's fine by me. I don't care what you eat.

 

[Sinister]

As for your claim, it isn't scientifically proven to reduce testosterone levels. What research does say is that there is a correlation between slight decreases in testosterone and soy use. Correlation is not causation. The slight decrease could be attributed to the high fiber content or lower saturated fat intake, which are also both correlated with decrease in testosterone levels. For ever study you can find against soy, you can 10 stating numerous health benefits and that there isn't a significant decrease in testosterone, which isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. My point is that there is not any consensus of negative effects of soy.

Er. No. You're smart, but you don't appear to know much about physiology. The testosterone decrease/estrogen increase is directly related to blockage of androgen receptors. And yes, for any male, decrease of testosterone is a bad thing, considering our testosterone naturally decreases as we age anyway, which has been associated with proneness to a plethora of ailments and diseases.

I'll give you that it's a hotly debated topic, however, the studies that show a causation are better constructed than those that show none, meaning food intake isn't self-reported, there aren't 4 control groups, and the pharmacokinetics are examined.

Now, being that it IS a debated topic and that hormone viability, as well as basic nutritional standpoints like protein synthesis. I see no reason to advocate use of an inferior source or to run the risk when there's definitely not as controversial sources available.

P.S. - One of the health benefits most dramatically associated with Soy for males is it's ability to possibly stem the risk of prostate cancer. It performs this because of it's ability to lower testosterone levels. That's significant enough to me. Especially considering that Lycopene > Soy in-terms of stemming prostate cancer risk.

 

[Saith]

I think the sheer fact that large nutrition bodies advocate soy usage should be fact enough. I'm not going out of my way to argue with someone on the internet about eating soy. Someone made a comment, and I told them why I didn't avoid soy. If you want to think soy is the devil and avoid it, that's fine by me. I don't care what you eat.

I don't care about it one way or the other, I just want to see the table your citing which lists studies approving of soy on one side with studies against soy on the other where there is a 10:1 ratio in favor of soy.

 

[Lubaolong]

What about the feminizing effects of too much testosterone?

 

[noise666]

I haven't said it can't be done asshole, only that you need more than just propaganda, faith, and sentiment to do it. There's no need to be a prick when I'm willing to live and let live, so shut your fucking trap. Rarely do I feel so unjustly attacked and purposefully misinterpreted and misrepresented. Save your rhetoric for somebody deserving, cause if you want to eat leaves, hug trees and bugger badgers, that's your fucking life to lead, and I'm not here to make people more like me. My concern is only the impact on people who have no choice, and that every parent be conscious of said impact and devoted to the best interests of their children, influenced more by science and results than sensationalism.

You CAN be vegan and healthy, I choose to be non-vegan and healthy. So save your bullshit for somebody who believes otherwise. You attack me unjustly again and I'll shitcan you so fast it'll make your head spin.

First off, you need to look back at your previous post man! You implied that it can't be done or (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) that it's very hard to do...

It concerns me only if there's another life involved. A pregnant person and person feeding a baby needs to be well versed in appropriate nutrition, beyond that, they can malnourish themselves all they want for all I care.

That being said, I wasn't being a prick. I simply pointed out the fact that it is easily done. Propaganda has nothing to do with my being vegan or pro-choice liberal :- ) I'm no member of PETA or PRO-CHOICE movement. I simply am what I am. I try to be conscious of the planet, etc.

So saying I attacked you is a little extreme, no? If that's attacking you, I'm guessing you must have a really hard time in life dealing with people a hell of a lot worse then myself.

So all that being said, good luck.