Spoiler - Anthony Pettis, kicking mistake?

[SandaKicker]

Pettis said it was from a headkick at first, later clarified that it was from a checked kick at the start of the second round.

Heavily reduced his kick output and reduced his mobility for the rest of the fight.

I have to think the intention was to land shin on shin.

It is a concern for me and several others on this forum who want to go by the methodology shin to leg and body, foot to the head.

That’s how it’s done in Lethwei and several other styles.

I can’t remember seeing this happen in Muay Thai or a MT stylist competing in kickboxing.

How do you minimise the chances of this happening without making all your kicks shin kicks? Seems like if you get into the habit of saying it’s ok to kick to the head with the foot one day you run run the risk of going to the leg with your foot.

 

[ARIZE]

He does come from TKD... And some habits are hard to kill.
If you spend an entire life kicking low/mid with your shin and high with your instep, there is no reason you will mess it in fight day.

If you spend your first learning years of a martial art, kicking with the instep no matter the target, there is a chance that even after crosstraining, that habit will pop back.

 

[Snubnoze707]

He was going for a calf kick, one of the most overhyped techniques in the UFC now that you DON'T see in Kickboxing or Muay Thai frequently for this very reason, if you adjust the angle of your lower leg being kicked they can run right into your shin very easily. Nate did that and Pettis took it on the foot. I don't think he was intending to land on the foot. This completely nullified his leg kick game which I imagine was part of the game plan as in the past Nate hasn't been a great checker, but he checked multiple kicks in this fight and looked greatly improved.

 

[SandaKicker]

I didn’t actually consider that he might have been going for a calf kick, do you know that for sure?

I agree though about them being a terrible “innovation” in a MMA striking.

 

[aerius]

He was going for a calf kick, one of the most overhyped techniques in the UFC now that you DON'T see in Kickboxing or Muay Thai frequently for this very reason, if you adjust the angle of your lower leg being kicked they can run right into your shin very easily. Nate did that and Pettis took it on the foot. I don't think he was intending to land on the foot. This completely nullified his leg kick game which I imagine was part of the game plan as in the past Nate hasn't been a great checker, but he checked multiple kicks in this fight and looked greatly improved.

Yup. That was one of the easiest checked kicks I've seen in a while, Diaz didn't even have to move his lead leg to block it. I knew it was going to be interesting as soon as I saw Nate's stance, he had his lead foot pointed straight forward or slightly to the outside instead of turned inwards like he usually does. When I saw that I was like "yup, he's been training to defend low kicks, let's see how well he does".

Also, Pettis doesn't know what he's doing here on low kicks, this is the one where he messed up his foot. Diaz has his lead leg turned slightly outwards to help defend low kicks coming from the outside. The best option for Pettis is to use an inside low kick since it attacks from the direction that's away from the shin, and he also has the better foot position at this point to land the kick. Next best option is an outside low kick after stepping to his right so he can swing the kick in from the side, but Pettis doesn't do that either. Instead, he makes the worst possible choice; he steps to his left and throws an outside low kick, driving his foot straight on into the shin.

 

[Lucas Coradini]

^ Great eye!

 

[shincheckin]

i use the method, shin to the legs and body, foot to the head, because I am not flexible enough to kick with the shin to the head. If I was extremely flexible like some of the other TMA guys, I would be shinkicking the head too. As long as your flexible enough, a shinkick to the head, is going to smash right through whether its blocked or not. Can you imagine being able to kick the head as powerful as you can kick the leg?!?! I think the reason most use the foot to the head is due to flexibility.

kick with your shin not your foot

 

[j123]

i use the method, shin to the legs and body, foot to the head, because I am not flexible enough to kick with the shin to the head. If I was extremely flexible like some of the other TMA guys, I would be shinkicking the head too. As long as your flexible enough, a shinkick to the head, is going to smash right through whether its blocked or not. Can you imagine being able to kick the head as powerful as you can kick the leg?!?! I think the reason most use the foot to the head is due to flexibility.

Just fight manlets

 

[shincheckin]

Just fight manlets

yeah fighting guys my height are much easier to kick in the head than dudes that are taller.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

i use the method, shin to the legs and body, foot to the head, because I am not flexible enough to kick with the shin to the head. If I was extremely flexible like some of the other TMA guys, I would be shinkicking the head too. As long as your flexible enough, a shinkick to the head, is going to smash right through whether its blocked or not. Can you imagine being able to kick the head as powerful as you can kick the leg?!?! I think the reason most use the foot to the head is due to flexibility.

kick with your shin not your foot

There's a correlation with reach too. I'm not a tall guy, so headkicking with the foot is more convenient for me.

 

[SandisLL]

As long as your flexible enough, a shinkick to the head, is going to smash right through whether its blocked or not.[

Not always. If he blocks with step forward plus for fun applies block not in L shape ( that usually in many TMA demos ) but < shaped hand as a lift up , then leg instead of hiting head will be on his lower arm, pass it or he might catch leg by using another hand .

 

[shincheckin]

There's a correlation with reach to. I'm not a tall guy, so headkicking with the foot is more convenient for me.

I think most people probably kick to the head with the foot, out of necessity, majority of people simply arent flexible enough to do it with the shin. You need to be one of those extremely flexible TMA guys to do that. If you could would be dope, but you have to start stretching at a young age to "keep" your flexibility. If you start when your older, you can improve your flexibility, but I think it can only go so far. I have been training for a long time, I have always done light stretches before training, still cannot do the splits.

 

[ARIZE]

You need to be one of those extremely flexible TMA guys to do that

Ironically, those guys will also kick with the instep, cause that's how they are taught in most of those TMA.

 

[SandaKicker]

There's a correlation with reach to. I'm not a tall guy, so headkicking with the foot is more convenient for me.

True, someone I think it might have been Bullit, broke drown with screenshots how Cro Cop is always a headkicker with the foot in the kickboxing section.

He always does the splits in his training promo’s.

 

[SandaKicker]

You need to be one of those extremely flexible TMA guys to do that.

It’s funny how many people in the TMA scene think flexibility is the no. 1 most important factor in martial arts training.

 

[SandisLL]

It isn't only for TMA.

For example, wrestling, circus artists, gymnasts training if done since early childhood, they of course cannot let go 6 - 10 years old kids with too harash stuff.
There also they use, for example bridge running, this stuff is head on mat and boy does circles by using legs.... different stretchings exercises etc.
Some are like in street gymnastic or close to parkour too.

It is assumed that in age of 5 - 12 years there is great potential develop high flexibility.
Since many guys started with some TMA or other flexibility demanding training in 6 - 12 years of age, from this also assumption about flexibility as No1.

 

[shincheckin]

It’s funny how many people in the TMA scene think flexibility is the no. 1 most important factor in martial arts training.

the benefits of being extremely flexible are huge. Flexibility equals athleticism. You can get by without being extremely flexible but if you are, it makes you that much more dangerous and effective. The crazy kicks that require it are very powerful if they land.

 

[lakamas]

Yup. That was one of the easiest checked kicks I've seen in a while, Diaz didn't even have to move his lead leg to block it. I knew it was going to be interesting as soon as I saw Nate's stance, he had his lead foot pointed straight forward or slightly to the outside instead of turned inwards like he usually does. When I saw that I was like "yup, he's been training to defend low kicks, let's see how well he does".

Also, Pettis doesn't know what he's doing here on low kicks, this is the one where he messed up his foot. Diaz has his lead leg turned slightly outwards to help defend low kicks coming from the outside. The best option for Pettis is to use an inside low kick since it attacks from the direction that's away from the shin, and he also has the better foot position at this point to land the kick. Next best option is an outside low kick after stepping to his right so he can swing the kick in from the side, but Pettis doesn't do that either. Instead, he makes the worst possible choice; he steps to his left and throws an outside low kick, driving his foot straight on into the shin.

yeah you should go advise pettis since you know so much more than him and his trainers, it's a special keyboard warrior skill after all


another issue that no one mentioned here is that when kicking with the shin the part of the shin and the angle that hit the target is also very important

 

[rmongler]

Yoel Romero vs Luke Rockhold is another study on this.

Romero didn't even have to lift his leg; he simply turned his foot to the outside, and Rockhold drove right into his shin. Pretty much stopped throwing kicks after that, which was his best weapon.