Successful Wrestling Coaches w/ No Experience

[asian-glow]

Wrestling, along with boxing, is one of the few combat sports where I hear about coaches who have little to no formal training who go on to coach successful teams.

I'd be interested in learning more about these people and their methodologies.

 

[flikerstance]

Wrestling, along with boxing, is one of the few combat sports where I hear about coaches who have little to no formal training who go on to coach successful teams.

I'd be interested in learning more about these people and their methodologies.

i feel u can be a good coach without competing especially a wrestling coach for mma

comes down to game planning coaching tbh with the internet today theirs so many techniques to study as long as the coach has a decent base of knowledge he can make adjustments i feel by watching things online

 

[dsdoubled]

That's a tough one. The only one that's even close is Ricky Lundell and although I don't believe he ever was on a wrestling team (aside from his stint at Iowa State), he was a Bjj black belt and a grappling world champ by the time he became a wrestling coach.

I think the fact that he was buddies with Cael Sandersons bro obviously helped a lot. When they brought him on the PSU coaching staff they legitimized him big time.

 

[Dirty Holt]

A redshirt year and a competition year at a JUCO will have you ahead of 90% of highschool coaches as far as grasp of the sport. Especially in Cali

 

[rmongler]

It's often observed in many sports that great coaches at the highest levels are rarely people who were also great competitors at those same levels (sometimes not even having done the sport at all beforehand), that they often come from different cuts of cloth, even.

Wrestling in particular, and grappling in general, somewhat stand out in the universe of other sports in this regard; successful coaches are almost always people who were successful competitors as well.

There are a couple of reasons for this phenomena, i would surmise; one might be the nature of the 'lore' that needs to be internalized (the tactics, techniques, and procedures), which would be more difficult to acquire without first-hand experience; another might also be that the cognitive profiles or capacities tended to be selected for more by the activity, would also happen to be capacities that are relevant to matters of planning or leadership as well.

 

[Dirty Holt]

It's often observed in many sports that great coaches at the highest levels are rarely people who were also great competitors at those same levels (sometimes not even having done the sport at all beforehand), that they often come from different cuts of cloth, even.

I think this is a frequently propagated, highly incorrect myth. I would say hardly any great coaches at the highest levels didnt at least make it to the upper echelon of the sport. If you could name 10 current head coaches in the NFL, NBA, or MLB that didnt at least have college or pro experience, I would be very surprised. Olympic sports its almost unheard of.

 

[Cole train]

I think this is a frequently propagated, highly incorrect myth. I would say hardly any great coaches at the highest levels didnt at least make it to the upper echelon of the sport. If you could name 10 current head coaches in the NFL, NBA, or MLB that didnt at least have college or pro experience, I would be very surprised. Olympic sports its almost unheard of.

My experience, best coaches are ex serious competitors/fighters who were technically good but lacked natural athletic ability (didnt have that something that separated them from everyone else)

 

[rmongler]

I think this is a frequently propagated, highly incorrect myth. I would say hardly any great coaches at the highest levels didnt at least make it to the upper echelon of the sport. If you could name 10 current head coaches in the NFL, NBA, or MLB that didnt at least have college or pro experience, I would be very surprised. Olympic sports its almost unheard of.

I've observed this in grappling, but im willing to believe it's true elsewhere as well; if so, then i think a big part of the recurring popularity of such a sentiment would be that it is ultimately self-serving, in terms of flattery or reassurance, for a person's own sense of potential; 'i might not have been successful/might not be capable of being successful at [sport], but i could still be a great coach; i could still be a big important person in this thing i am a fan of if i wanted too.'

 

[tekkenfan]

My experience, best coaches are ex serious competitors/fighters who were technically good but lacked natural athletic ability (didnt have that something that separated them from everyone else)

mhm i love technique i see conditioning is something somewhat easy to acquire u dont have to think on it but technique is hard to acquire and can take years which is why i get crazy on it always trying to go back and see if i can mod things i do to make it better

everyone knows the game as is so i find u gotta know a little more to win and never being satisfied with what you know

 

[Dirty Holt]

I've observed this in grappling, but im willing to believe it's true elsewhere as well; if so, then i think a big part of the recurring popularity of such a sentiment would be that it is ultimately self-serving, in terms of flattery or reassurance, for a person's own sense of potential; 'i might not have been successful/might not be capable of being successful at [sport], but i could still be a great coach; i could still be a big important person in this thing i am a fan of if i wanted too.'

Never thought of this but I bet you are 100% spot on. Makes a lot of sense

 

[nefti]

Does athletic ability have a lot of correlation to coaching ability? Or is it the experience of competing that Helps one's ability to coach at that level?

 

[DPS831]

I think this is a frequently propagated, highly incorrect myth. I would say hardly any great coaches at the highest levels didnt at least make it to the upper echelon of the sport. If you could name 10 current head coaches in the NFL, NBA, or MLB that didnt at least have college or pro experience, I would be very surprised. Olympic sports its almost unheard of.

Correlation is not always causation, though. Just because the majority of top coaches had college/pro experience does not necessarily mean they are top coaches because of said experience (although I think it's obvious that high level experience is certainly relevant / helpful in coaching). There are certainly advantages beyond technical teaching ability that an experienced competitor brings to the table, though. For example, a Cael Sanderson/John Smith/Cary Kolat type, regardless of coaching ability, is going to bring immediate legitimacy and buy-in to a wrestling program. The obvious counterexample in grappling sports is John Danaher, who to my knowledge did not compete in high level BJJ or MMA competitions in his youth. He may be an outlier, but it is certainly one data point that suggests you do not need elite level competition experience to be an excellent coach/teacher.

One thing I sometimes find annoying is the (somewhat widespread) belief that being competent at a skill set equates to competence at teaching that skill set. In fact, performing a skill, and teaching that same skill, can be very different things.

 

[thugpoet]

I think this is a frequently propagated, highly incorrect myth. I would say hardly any great coaches at the highest levels didnt at least make it to the upper echelon of the sport. If you could name 10 current head coaches in the NFL, NBA, or MLB that didnt at least have college or pro experience, I would be very surprised. Olympic sports its almost unheard of.

college or pro? you cant have a moving goal post.

 

[tekkenfan]

Does athletic ability have a lot of correlation to coaching ability? Or is it the experience of competing that Helps one's ability to coach at that level?

i think its more of knowing what its like to compete at top levels setting guys up for attacks ect

 

[SBC]

There's guy that was known to give John Smith all he could handle on the wrestling mat. Name escapes me, but he was coached by his father who had no wrestling experience at all. People who watched him wrestle said he was the best they'd ever seen.

 

[nefti]

You gotta ask, how much of coaching and "experience" is a good old boys club type thing?
Where alot of atheletes would be unemployable in any other field than the sport they played so theh use the "coaches need to be players" excuse?

 

[nefti]

The majority of NBA head coaches in 2017-18 never played professionally, and nearly two-thirds never played in the NBA.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ed-in-the-nba-just-like-most-nba-coaches/amp/

 

[yetanother]

That's a tough one. The only one that's even close is Ricky Lundell and although I don't believe he ever was on a wrestling team (aside from his stint at Iowa State), he was a Bjj black belt and a grappling world champ by the time he became a wrestling coach

"grappling world champ" sound a lot more prestigious then it really won.
He grappled in a super niche ruleset in a competition which the top guys generally didn't give a shit about.
The Miyaos won that years later without giving a shit about the rules and pulling guard taking an "got taken down in opening second 2x score multiplier" every time.
A world championship in that is step below a prime grapplers quest.
Ricky has a youtube channel where he was trashing actual BJJ world champs, seemed pretty arrogant for how weak his championships where.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

My experience, best coaches are ex serious competitors/fighters who were technically good but lacked natural athletic ability (didnt have that something that separated them from everyone else)

athleticism is underrated in Grappling and MMA take Lyoto Machida, a great fighter with many notable wins. imo what held him back in the Shogun fights was that Shogun was vastly more explosive and athletic than Lyoto. I see it on my Son's wrestling teams the kids that are naturally fluid and athletic are just...better than the kids that have the same technique and cardio

 

[Cole train]

athleticism is underrated in Grappling and MMA take Lyoto Machida, a great fighter with many notable wins. imo what held him back in the Shogun fights was that Shogun was vastly more explosive and athletic than Lyoto. I see it on my Son's wrestling teams the kids that are naturally fluid and athletic are just...better than the kids that have the same technique and cardio

of course thats called talent

we have a guy who trains once a week at my gym and beats all the guys who train six days a week, hes athletic and he just has "it"

not very good technique but doesnt matter because hes talented, i have never seen a hard worker beat a talented guy.