Elections The abortion issue in 2024

[cincymma79]

I think they shouldn’t legislate based on that. I have a suspicion that if certain strict sects of Islam (for example) tried to pass laws forcing you to do something you didn’t want to do, in order to comply with their religious belief, you’d feel quite differently.

We are not governed by the Bible, the Pope, the Mormon Prophet, or any Muslim cleric. We’re governed by the Constitution. The framers of the 14th Amendment made clear (in the debates in Congress at the time) that the amendment was meant to encompass things like whether or not to choose to have a family, and also bodily autonomy.

Christians are welcome to *believe* that abortion is sinful and awful and murderous and whatever. But is not unconstitutional and people who *don’t* believe it is murderous or sinful should have freedom to do constitutional things. That’s the thing about living in a country with freedom: some people are bound to use their freedoms in ways other people disagree with.

So lobbying of any type should be banned and people shouldn’t vote based on their beliefs. Got it. Muslims can and do exactly what you say and you can count all my posts about them being allowed to vote that way using all the days on Simpson lives from today forward.

 

[Captain Davis]

This is not true, and I think it’s a really dangerous message that conservatives are trying to legitimize. Some Founding Fathers opposed listing a Bill of Rights, specifically because they thought some people would see that and think those were the only rights there were.
The right to travel freely around the U.S., or the right to marriage,or the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty in criminal court, are all rights not listed in the Constitution.

Don’t buy into this bullshit that a right has to be listed. It’s not true, and it’s part of an ongoing agenda to shift rights of the People to be powers of the state. Its dead wrong and we shouldn’t let it happen .

It isn’t a matter of conservatives/leftists or Republicans/Democrats, it is a matter of constitutional integrity.

Abortion is a state responsibility if it is not delegated to the federal government by the states.

 

[panamaican]

it's the same with guns. arguments haven't shifted an inch. everytime there's a shooting, the exact same arguments are rehashed.

i'm saying this because i can't think of many things in Europe where the stands are so monolith - like, with intense debate going on for decades implicating basically the entire country in two unmovable sides.

I'm sure part of it comes from the "how". Things that have been through Congress tend to settle down a lot quicker than things that are primarily driven by the courts.

 

[Sinister]

Dude, slavery is a non/issue. The 13th Amendment took care of that.

Abortion on the other hand is a state issue. Yes, it actually does matter if it is mentioned in the Constitution.

The 10th Amendment: Any powers that are not specifically given to the federal government, nor withheld from the states, are reserved to those respective states, or to the people.

Interpretation is practiced by those who only wish to circumvent the constitution.

If changes are to be made there is a process. Amendments are how changes are made - not “interpretations.”

Do States have the right to segregate their schools by race?

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Do States have the right to segregate their schools by race?

Blue states say "yes".

 

[Sinister]

Blue states say "yes".

Please name the State(s) where it is legal for DoE schools to be segregated by race.

 

[44nutman]

The entire premise of this thread supports your statements. It is incredibly sad that nearly everyone posting in this thread does not seem to understand the entire concept of government and the core principle regarding Roe v Wade. People today are so entrenched in fighting for "their team" to save democracy they can't even comprehend how that is the greatest threat to democracy.

Overturning Roe v Wade is the event that returned real, legitimate discussion and power over the issue of abortion back to the people, but so many people still screaming about Trump because they just want to bitch and don't actually give a shit about the abortion issue. If they did they would be bitching at their state government that actually controls abortion laws, but they don't, they just bitch about evil Trump without a clue that abortion is no longer under any federal control as deemed by the United States Supreme Court.

I guess you forget about the abortion vote in OH.
OH has a GOP governor, 1 GOP US senator and a purple state that leans Red. The abortion bill won with 56% of the vote.
Various other states including California, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Montana and Vermont have protected it. So they are not actually bitching they are getting amendments passed to protect a womens right to her body.
It was Trump appointed justices who with a straight face, said they would not vote against Roe V Wade and as soon as they sat down on the bench turned it down. I guess since they got appointed by a serial liar, like Trump, they thought it was OK to lie as well.

 

[cincymma79]

Do States have the right to segregate their schools by race?

Yes

 

[Satanical Eve]

Yes

Not here in NY.

Acts 1855, C. 256. No person shall be refused admission into or be excluded from any public school in the state of New York on account of race or color.

 

[Sinister]

Yes

No, they dont. Because there is a Federal Act passed against it.

 

[helltoupee]

Abortion is killing a baby. It just is. So we’re really just saying when it’s ok.

So when is it baby.

I support abortion up to a certain time in case of rape. I support it to protect the mother health as per the doctors.
I support plan b being available over the counter at the age of consent.

Now we are past all that. When is abortion killing a baby.

I agree that at some point it becomes a "baby", where that line is I just don't know.

However, would you pay the Kelly Bluebook price for a "car", when the "car" simply consists of a half assembled engine with no body, tranny, wheels/tires/suspension, etc? Probably not.

The potential of something is not the same as the final product.

 

[Captain Davis]

Do States have the right to segregate their schools by race?

No, due to an act of Congress which is based on the 14th Amendment.

 

[Brigfa2]

As a eastern liberal, i respect christians wanting to ban abortions because i'm not a christphobe!

 

[Sinister]

No, due to an act of Congress which is based on the 14th Amendment.

So, the Fedeeal Government enacted a protective Act due to an interpretation of the 14th Amendment in that context. Got it.

 

[Helden]

ridiculous take

How so?

 

[cincymma79]

No, they dont. Because there is a Federal Act passed against it.

They are actively segregating by race in colleges right now. Hbcu for starters then all the threads of schools doing it for no whites spaces. Those don’t count because reasons though

 

[Captain Davis]

So, the Fedeeal Government enacted a protective Act due to an interpretation of the 14th Amendment in that context. Got it.

Which article or amendment is abortion tied to?

 

[Captain Davis]

So, the Fedeeal Government enacted a protective Act due to an interpretation of the 14th Amendment in that context. Got it.

The act must have constitutional backing.

 

[Sinister]

They are actively segregating by race in colleges right now. Hbcu for starters then all the threads of schools doing it for no whites spaces. Those don’t count because reasons though

First off, not all colleges are State funded, segregation is illegal in State funded schools. Second off, not all HBCU's are public funded, in fact around half of them are private. Third off, HBCU's admit non-black students, as of 2019 1/4 of all students at HBCU's were not black.

No, no one is actively segregating schools.

 

[Sinister]

Which article or amendment is abortion tied to?

The act must have constitutional backing.

Oh nice to see you acknowledge that Acts of Federal protection can indeed exist if something isnt specifically mentioned in the constitution. Because for a minute there it seemed you might continue with that textualist/originalist approach.

Abortion was also tied to the 14th Amendment. And the Supreme Court Justices confirmed by Trump expressly stated they had no desire to overturn the ruling as well as then subsequent precedents of every case that upheld Roe. Then they did it anyway.