The "evolution" of the ww division

MMA evolution is a myth. Usman should have been KOd last night, if Burns had an ounce of killer instinct. I understand buttering up your champions for the audience, but Usman ain't no GSP
 
GSP fought Matt Serra, Dan Hardy and Thiago Alves. Got finished by one of them and fought 2 to decision and couldnt pull off a sub while in dominant position multiple times.

I love GSP and think hes one of the GOATs but dont be crazy in thinking he fought the best
 
po_thead said:
MMA evolution is a myth. Usman should have been KOd last night, if Burns had an ounce of killer instinct. I understand buttering up your champions for the audience, but Usman ain't no GSP
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reminds me of when Condit headkicked GSP into oblivion and didnt follow it up with anything.

should of been over then
 
Prime Matt Serra would not be top 10 LW today. Today’s fighters are way more well rounded and deadlier on the feet.

Remember the striking at WW back then?!
 
Mike said:
Do people really believe this has happened? And if so, why? Keep seeing people swinging off of Usmans nuts saying each of his wins is so amazing because the division is so much better and less one dimensional. What are you guys basing this on?

Masvidal: career journeyman that arguably didn't deserve a shot. Good striking, competent but not amazing in other areas.

Chiesa: decent wrestling and good bjj, average striking

Colby: good wrestling and great cardio, average striking that can look better at times because of the wrestling threat.

WB: great striking and tdd, no real grappling to speak of outside of that

Where is this amazing evolution at? I'd argue the division now is weaker than when gsp was champ, and on par AT BEST. Not every division is magically better now than it was in the past. Hw and lhw aren't better today either.
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Gsp was beating Jon Fitch, Matt Serra, Matt Hughes and Thiago Alves. Not one of those guys would be a top 5 fighter now. Thr only guy he beat who would be a top 5 fighter now is Hendricks and he didnt really beat him now did he?
 
Mike said:
Do people really believe this has happened? And if so, why? Keep seeing people swinging off of Usmans nuts saying each of his wins is so amazing because the division is so much better and less one dimensional. What are you guys basing this on?

Masvidal: career journeyman that arguably didn't deserve a shot. Good striking, competent but not amazing in other areas.

Chiesa: decent wrestling and good bjj, average striking

Colby: good wrestling and great cardio, average striking that can look better at times because of the wrestling threat.

WB: great striking and tdd, no real grappling to speak of outside of that

Where is this amazing evolution at? I'd argue the division now is weaker than when gsp was champ, and on par AT BEST. Not every division is magically better now than it was in the past. Hw and lhw aren't better today either.
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100 %. Up until around 2017th-becoming complacent was a death sentence in divisions 170 & up. That was the ceiling of sports evolution ..... no coincidence , SFORCE (2012) talent was aging / regressing/ finding greener pastures in 16', 17'.
That was the point that elite talent was able to stay ahead of the curve just by putting in the work. It's been that way since .Usman legit but who does he have to worry about ? Whos coming into UFC whod be on his radar ?

Masvidal is like the #3 ww in world ( ufc)? something wrong with that picture.

Till is like the #3 middle in world ( ufc) ?
something wrong with that picture.

Glover is getting clipped by middleweights at 205, getting noodlelegged but just hanging on to ground them and get " w " s.

This picture will get clearer and clearer and I dont blame White - hes doing everything he possibly can to keep show rolling during a pandemic and bringing in whatever talent he can.
 
The reason why the future generations are better are because they learn from past fighters and have so much to work off of. Usman is like a GSP with power and even bigger. Gsp pretty much wrote the blueprint of a complete fighter and Usman pushed the limits further.
 
I think Usmans competition has been comparable to GSPs but he hasnt had the longevity at the top and sheer quantity of wins...yet.

Usman himself is the only current WW who is better than any of GSPs opponents imo.
 
Evangelion said:
Gsp was beating Jon Fitch, Matt Serra, Matt Hughes and Thiago Alves. Not one of those guys would be a top 5 fighter now. Thr only guy he beat who would be a top 5 fighter now is Hendricks and he didnt really beat him now did he?
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See the GOAT poll noob
 
GOATtalks said:
I don’t know what you think athletics are, but fighters have much better cardio fighting at much higher pace than ever before. Usmans muscle mass paired with his cardio is unheard of ever before
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But Usman isn't everyone lol. On average I haven't seen much improvement. If anything it has gotten worse.

It obviously has a lot to do with PEDS and no USADA back in the day.
 
Evangelion said:
Gsp was beating Jon Fitch, Matt Serra, Matt Hughes and Thiago Alves. Not one of those guys would be a top 5 fighter now. Thr only guy he beat who would be a top 5 fighter now is Hendricks and he didnt really beat him now did he?
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People keep just stating stuff like this with nothing to back it up. WB is a top guy with only striking and tdd. Masvodal is a career lw journeyman and is a ranked ww now. Colby only has wrestling. So it seems like quite an assumption to say none of the ranked guys of the past would be ranked now.
 
I'd say welterweight today a bit better than when GSP was reigning champ, but GSP is still the best WW to ever do it.

Covington is a slightly better Jon Fitch
Jorge Masvidal today is a far better striker and grappler than Dan Hardy and Carlos Condit and Thiago Alves and also a much better striker than Nick Diaz (but with a far less decorated career as it took him too long to get to this level)
Wonderboy is one of the best strikers to ever compete in the sport putting him far above Hardy and Condit again
Gilbert Burns is infinitely more skilled than Matt Hughes, but obviously Hughes has a very decorated career from competing in the earlier days of the sport
Jake Shields is slightly better than Demian Maia
Tyron Woodley is better than Josh Koscheck but comparable to pre-USADA Hendricks
 
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Mike said:
Do people really believe this has happened? And if so, why? Keep seeing people swinging off of Usmans nuts saying each of his wins is so amazing because the division is so much better and less one dimensional. What are you guys basing this on?

Masvidal: career journeyman that arguably didn't deserve a shot. Good striking, competent but not amazing in other areas.

Chiesa: decent wrestling and good bjj, average striking

Colby: good wrestling and great cardio, average striking that can look better at times because of the wrestling threat.

WB: great striking and tdd, no real grappling to speak of outside of that

Where is this amazing evolution at? I'd argue the division now is weaker than when gsp was champ, and on par AT BEST. Not every division is magically better now than it was in the past. Hw and lhw aren't better today either.
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WWs are bigger now for sure. The evolution of weight cutting has been hilarious to watch over the years.
 
A.S. Deep said:
WWs are bigger now for sure. The evolution of weight cutting has been hilarious to watch over the years.
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Now that I'd agree with. Guys across the board are bigger. LWs are freaking huge now.
 
Lol mma evolution denier is completely out touch with reality.

If you can't see the massive evolution since the gsp era then it say more of your mma knowledge than the sport.
 
Mike said:
Now that I'd agree with. Guys across the board are bigger. LWs are freaking huge now.
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Don't forget about the monster LHWs.

Just look at 6'5 probably 230lbs Rakic and compare him to guys like Wanderlei. Hell, compare him to Cro Cop who fought as low as 213lbs.
 
Reigning over pre-USADA WW is more impressive. Skills have gone up, but juice has gone down. Usman is getting close but needs more wins and a MW strap.
 
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