Crime Thieves steal $30k worth of tools, let out same day

[Two Crows]

So, I'm pretty sure I've either disagreed with, or been neutral from, everything @Loiosh has ever posted on SherDog.

But I am 100% with him here.

The 5th amendment has become something of a joke in the USA, with the majority of the population (on both sides of the political spectrum, depending on the crime) assuming guilt upon accusation.

99% Federal and ~95% State conviction rates? LOL! Who is THAT GOOD at their job? 1% or less of the prosecutors at the federal level that believe their case is strong enough to bring to trial are incorrect? GTFO.

NASA can't compete with Federal prosecutors success rates, and the notion that attorneys who were not good enough to earn the millions private celebrity representation earns somehow outperform all of our brightest-and-best should raise all the alert flags you need. SOMETHING isn't processing correctly in the model.

Bond is used to ensure incarceration, and plea deals to avoid trial. We know this is a cost-saving move, and we KNOW this is a tactic to avoid the "trial by peer" stipulation of the the Constitution. But no one cares because the USA has a "guilty by accusation" stance.

Somebody accused them of rape? Guilty! Believe all women.

Somebody accused them of theft? Guilty! Defend the poor businessman.

[Insert equivalent position of whatever your political leaning may be with same result here.]

The topic nobody raises, and nobody seems to want raised ... is the right to a speedy trial. That means A LOT more public money, and that money is going to come from something already being spent, to ensure this actually exists. Several states have wait lists of YEARS to reach trial, and many of which exceed the maximum penalty of conviction.

Why on earth would you do 5 years of jail time (which is much harder than prison time), to stand trial for a crime that carries a maximum sentence of 1 year? You don't. You just plead guilty and go home.

The 5th is virtually meaningless in the current US system, and that desperately needs to change.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

ya, ok, but why? Why do they want to do that, do they actually think that'll make things better? Presumably they have family too, they want their families fucked over?

elites always want power over the peasants. the useful idiots who carry their water naively think they'll have a seat at the table once the peasants are fully controlled but they won't. a lot of it's ignorance, some of it's thinking they're actually doing good and they're a good person without realizing what's really going on. behind the scenes is probably a lot contempt for the masses.

 

[Loiosh]

The topic nobody raises, and nobody seems to want raised ... is the right to a speedy trial.

I raise it all the time, and I'm always told I'm trolling.

 

[Two Crows]

I raise it all the time, and I'm always told I'm trolling.

I'm 100% against bond or interment as motivation to plea.

I would actually support the removal of plea bargains at this point. I have no doubt innocent people plead guilty (frequently).

 

[Loiosh]

I'm 100% against bond or interment as motivation to plea.

I would actually support the removal of plea bargains at this point. I have no doubt innocent people plead guilty (frequently).

Considering the justice system is adversarial and broken, and 98% of convictions are the result of a plea deal, I suspect you are correct.

 

[nhbbear]

Needle Nose Vise Grips.....the fkin big ones

I’ll allow it

 

[west42]

You do realize there was slavery and colonialism?

Plus they just took those tools to build a new particle accelerator to further our society

 

[Mike Hagger]

Why were they arrested in the first place? I think a social worker and mental health expert ought to have been assigned to their case. Also, the contractor should a) insure his tools and b) he probably made his tools too available, tempting people.

 

[Thrawn33]

The victim should get to pick a tool and use it on the suspect. I am thinking some sort of vice grip to the nuts

Wratchet straps...one for each limb...

Stealing someones work tools is stealing their ability to work and make money (and lord knows we're short on skilled trades), therefore the actual value should be multiplied

 

[Mike Hagger]

Wratchet straps...one for each limb...

Stealing someones work tools is stealing their ability to work and make money (and lord knows we're short on skilled trades), therefore the actual value should be multiplied

These people with their stolen goods will never recoup their value. I got a story:

Friend of mine is a carpenter and his work truck loaded with his tools was stolen, later it was involved in a high speed police chase and crashed into a river (thief was not hurt, thank god).

My friend was charged for recovery of the vehicle and the police department charged him for the impound fee! Of course the thief dude was uninsured with a long wrap sheet and no legit dollars to his name. The tools were held as evidence and the police needed to confirm all the tools were actually my friends. What was not outright broken was held on to for many months.

Friends insurance covered some shit but not his tools and no one paid for the jobs he had to give away lacking tools and his wheels.

So, you fucks who celebrate the release of these nonviolent assholes just don’t see the actual pain caused to people. But it’s normal American justice is fucked. A drug user might be held for using but the poor robber is cut loose.

 

[650lb Sumo]

Is there a reason they should have been held?

Are they dangerous? A flight risk?

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

They're robbing people you dumb shit

Their house is literally filled with items they robbed from people

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

The guy can just buy new tools again. It's like, big deal. Let em out.

Insurance exists.

It California so it will be reduced to a misdemeanor. They will get out with no time served most likely.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

It's a crime and they were arrested. I'm assuming they were charged and will stand trial.

If they're stupid enough to be committing more crimes after having been charged, it will ultimately be very bad for them at trial. Also, I'm assuming these guys are now persons of interest and will be looked at closely in similar cases.

You don't just arrest someone and jail them until trial unless they're dangerous or a flight risk.

I'm only speaking to the fact they were released. I have no idea why none of the other property was removed or why nothing else appears to have been done. You'd think barring proof of ownership it would have been seized pending an investigation.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

How do we know the tools haven't been seized?

I only spoke to their release, and explained my reasoning in another reply. "Released same day" seemed to be important, when in fact it isn't.

Of course there's more to this, but we're never going to know what is actually going on here. There are a thousand problems with how property theft is resolved but nobody here is going to follow up. All they want is the outrage.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

I'm incredibly consistent.

My position on jail is the same for these guys as it was for the January 6th people, I said it was not OK to hold them unless they satisfied very specific criteria.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

I would say any person that robs someone is dangerous. Do you disagree?

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

- They're realized because they arent dangerous?
Yes. They acumulated 30,000 in stolen objects, but they werent running over people with those objects?

It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the stolen goods house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van. They also stole his van, although he got it back.

I don't think so.

The very first question I asked was if they were dangerous. That's a very important consideration that can exclude bail. The judge is responsible for making that determination.

If you believe all robbers are dangerous and none should be released before trial, I think that would be a difficult case to make.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

In a trial, you would not be able to bring up other cases to bolster the case for this one. I had a domestic third trial where we weren’t allowed to bring up the suspects previous 4-5 arrests and convictions during trial. The defense was allowed to bring up the victims previous perjury conviction, though. But since I witnessed the assault taking place, the jury decided to ignore that since they didn’t like the pregnant crackwhore that got beaten by a bike tire.

You’re right about the not holding them for a high bond, though. Unless they are a danger to society or a flight risk, they won’t be held at all because of the zero bail policy in these liberal hellholes. He’s free to continue to rob people until he does something more serious.

And why isn’t the news releasing the suspects name and picture? Did the cops not even do that? There is literally no repercussions in this case. Theft in Cali is a fucking joke.

All those tools should have been seized, but heaven forbid that a thief is inconvenienced. Now, all that shit is gone. There is no justice in cases like this.

I am not conflating anything. I am agreeing with him that the bill of rights addresses bond issues and what parameters should be used to use a large bond to keep a suspect behind bars until trial if they are a danger or flight risk. I am not saying this suspect is either, but in liberal hellholes, they rarely keep anyone locked up before trial. In Philly, an armed carjacker was released and he did it again, only this time, he killed his victim.

And when an arrest is made, the criminal complaint and photos can be attained by a foia request. Why not release this guys pic since he was arrested and maybe his face should be out there. We know when he is eventually convicted of at least, receiving stolen property, he will get a light slap on the wrist despite destroying this guy’s business. These turds need exposed to the light.

And yep, I was a cop. So what? It was in jest. Would I really put a thieve’s nuts in a vice? Well, maybe, since there’s no other justice going around. Relax a bit, buddy

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.
A bike tyre? That's a funny and I would have thought, ineffective thing to beat someone with.
A lot of people get arrested who aren't guilty of anything and releasing their info no doubt leads to persecution.
How do we know the tools haven't been seized?
Insurance exists and even if it didn't, or if Powell was stupid enough not to have it, or they don't pay because his van was unlocked or whatever, I don't think his business would be destroyed. There's no need to be melodramatic.
If society continues the way its going however, and this kind of theft gets common enough it would shrink the plumbing market.

Yes and yes. FFS, the guy is stealing cars 2 hours from the open border with Mexico. It's a dead to rights felony for a guy with no job and nothing keeping him here other than $30k worth of tools they didn't even take back from him?

How is that not a threat to reoffend, harm somebody or ljust eave the country? What else do you think he's doing in that time?

It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the stolen goods house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van.
How do we know the tools haven't been seized?
Some of the tools were returned.

Just go replace $30k worth of tools like it's no big deal??

Too bad not all contractors live in your world.

Insurance exists. So does credit, for that matter.

In a case like this, I think they should have been kept in jail. $30,000 worth of stolen goods is a large amount of stolen property. If they had stolen one or two tools, I could see letting them out on bail.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.
It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the stolen goods house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van.
They also stole his van, although he got it back.

If this was their first time they have been arrested then I could see letting then out.

However I'm going to guess they have a record and probably a long one.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

What was bail, and

True, but if they are caught with a house full of stolen shit, I'd say their guilt is pretty safe for US to assume, and the only unknown is what the penalty will be.

Common sense is dramatically diluted by process, but process helps maintain civilization.

It will depend greatly on whether or not they have priors, but I believe they should absolutely be charged as a felony, and because of the prodigious nature of their crimes, I'd want the max... 3 years in the pokey.


That said, as long as they have roots in the community, and are not a flight risk, bail is absolutely normal.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

I don't think they are the robbers. They are most likely the people the robbers fenced it to.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

America has the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens in the world. This is due in part to unconstitutional bail practices forcing suspects to take plea deals.

If these alleged thieves present a flight risk, bail should be correspondingly high. If they present a danger, they shouldn't be released.

Until convicted, these ARE regular people and their rights should matter to you.

America ≠ the USA.
The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

99% Federal and ~95% State conviction rates? LOL! Who is THAT GOOD at their job? 1% or less of the prosecutors at the federal level that believe their case is strong enough to bring to trial are incorrect?

Yes. If it's not really strong it doesn't make it to trial. I don't know about 95% state conviction rate though, I couldn't find a source for that with a quick search.

Only 2% of federal criminal defendants went to trial in 2018, and most who did were found guilty

Trials are rare in the federal criminal justice system: Just 2% of criminal defendants went to trial in fiscal 2018. Acquittals are even rarer.

www.pewresearch.org

(Yes, I know there's a discrepancy in the conviction rates. Statistics are often like that. It's still high. There's more detail in the article.)

Put another way, only 320 of 79,704 total federal defendants – fewer than 1% – went to trial and won their cases, at least in the form of an acquittal, according to the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts.

Why on earth would you do 5 years of jail time (which is much harder than prison time), to stand trial for a crime that carries a maximum sentence of 1 year?

Why is gaol time much harder than prison time?

Considering the justice system is adversarial and broken, and 98% of convictions are the result of a plea deal, I suspect you are correct.

Apparently it's 99% for federal and 95% for state.

Why were they arrested in the first place? I think a social worker and mental health expert ought to have been assigned to their case. Also, the contractor should a) insure his tools and b) he probably made his tools too available, tempting people.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.
How do we know Powell didn't have insurance?
Tradesmen's vans full of tools are a well known target. The van doesn't seem to have 'Plumber' written on it but still, he could have taken better precautions.

Stealing someones work tools is stealing their ability to work and make money (and lord knows we're short on skilled trades), therefore the actual value should be multiplied

Not for very long, he can get more tools (apart from the few he got back).

These people with their stolen goods will never recoup their value. I got a story:

Friend of mine is a carpenter and his work truck loaded with his tools was stolen, later it was involved in a high speed police chase and crashed into a river (thief was not hurt, thank god).

My friend was charged for recovery of the vehicle and the police department charged him for the impound fee! Of course the thief dude was uninsured with a long wrap sheet and no legit dollars to his name. The tools were held as evidence and the police needed to confirm all the tools were actually my friends. What was not outright broken was held on to for many months.

Friends insurance covered some shit but not his tools and no one paid for the jobs he had to give away lacking tools and his wheels.

So, you fucks who celebrate the release of these nonviolent assholes just don’t see the actual pain caused to people. But it’s normal American justice is fucked. A drug user might be held for using but the poor robber is cut loose.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.
It's not the thief's fault he didn't insure his tools.
Unless he was using hand-made, made to order tools imported from Japan, in arctic Alaska, he could have been back at work within a few days. With proper insurance they would pay out very quickly. Also he could have got credit or leased.

Edit: I've changed 'thief house' to 'stolen goods house' to avoid implying too much of a link.

 

[Staph infection]

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

Insurance exists.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

How do we know the tools haven't been seized?

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the thief house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van. They also stole his van, although he got it back.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.



Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.
A bike tyre? That's a funny and I would have thought, ineffective thing to beat someone with.
A lot of people get arrested who aren't guilty of anything and releasing their info no doubt leads to persecution.
How do we know the tools haven't been seized?
Insurance exists and even if it didn't, or if Powell was stupid enough not to have it, or they don't pay because his van was unlocked or whatever, I don't think his business would be destroyed. There's no need to be melodramatic.
If society continues the way its going however, and this kind of theft gets common enough it would shrink the plumbing market.

It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the thief house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van.
How do we know the tools haven't been seized?
Some of the tools were returned.

Insurance exists. So does credit, for that matter.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.
It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the thief house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van.
They also stole his van, although he got it back.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

America ≠ the USA.
The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Yes. If it's not really strong it doesn't make it to trial. I don't know about 95% state conviction rate though, I couldn't find a source for that with a quick search.

Only 2% of federal criminal defendants went to trial in 2018, and most who did were found guilty

Trials are rare in the federal criminal justice system: Just 2% of criminal defendants went to trial in fiscal 2018. Acquittals are even rarer.

www.pewresearch.org

(Yes, I know there's a discrepancy in the conviction rates. Statistics are often like that. It's still high. There's more detail in the article.)



Why is gaol time much harder than prison time?

Apparently it's 99% for federal and 95% for state.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.
How do we know Powell didn't have insurance?
Tradesmen's vans full of tools are a well known target. The van doesn't seem to have 'Plumber' written on it but still, he could have taken better precautions.

Not for very long, he can get more tools (apart from the few he got back).

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.
It's not the thief's fault he didn't insure his tools.
Unless he was using hand-made, made to order tools imported from Japan, in arctic Alaska, he could have been back at work within a few days. With proper insurance they would pay out very quickly. Also he could have got credit or leased.

Holy quote fest!

The old insurance argument because insurance always pays out straight away. And if it didn't sure, just let him lease or use credit to get new tools. Why do anything to deter it, let the rest of us keep eating the cost through higher insurance premiums and higher prices when the thieves steal from stores.


Then the he could been back to work in a few days part! A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck and losing even a few days wages could have a major financial impact on the person.

 

[CatchnShoot]

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Except that the actual surveillance video shows two people working the van, you've got a strong point... lol.

 

[nhbbear]

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

Insurance exists.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

How do we know the tools haven't been seized?

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the stolen goods house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van. They also stole his van, although he got it back.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.



Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.
A bike tyre? That's a funny and I would have thought, ineffective thing to beat someone with.
A lot of people get arrested who aren't guilty of anything and releasing their info no doubt leads to persecution.
How do we know the tools haven't been seized?
Insurance exists and even if it didn't, or if Powell was stupid enough not to have it, or they don't pay because his van was unlocked or whatever, I don't think his business would be destroyed. There's no need to be melodramatic.
If society continues the way its going however, and this kind of theft gets common enough it would shrink the plumbing market.

It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the stolen goods house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van.
How do we know the tools haven't been seized?
Some of the tools were returned.

Insurance exists. So does credit, for that matter.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.
It sounds like there were a lot more tools in the stolen goods house than just those stolen from Mr. Powell's van.
They also stole his van, although he got it back.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.

America ≠ the USA.
The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.

Yes. If it's not really strong it doesn't make it to trial. I don't know about 95% state conviction rate though, I couldn't find a source for that with a quick search.

Only 2% of federal criminal defendants went to trial in 2018, and most who did were found guilty

Trials are rare in the federal criminal justice system: Just 2% of criminal defendants went to trial in fiscal 2018. Acquittals are even rarer.

www.pewresearch.org

(Yes, I know there's a discrepancy in the conviction rates. Statistics are often like that. It's still high. There's more detail in the article.)



Why is gaol time much harder than prison time?

Apparently it's 99% for federal and 95% for state.

The video says 'suspect', not 'suspects'.
How do we know Powell didn't have insurance?
Tradesmen's vans full of tools are a well known target. The van doesn't seem to have 'Plumber' written on it but still, he could have taken better precautions.

Not for very long, he can get more tools (apart from the few he got back).

Robbery is theft with violence or the threat of violence.
It's not the thief's fault he didn't insure his tools.
Unless he was using hand-made, made to order tools imported from Japan, in arctic Alaska, he could have been back at work within a few days. With proper insurance they would pay out very quickly. Also he could have got credit or leased.

Edit: I've changed 'thief house' to 'stolen goods house' to avoid implying too much of a link.

I don’t believe this is a serious response. All that to say that the victim should rely on insurance multiple times? And hitting a pregnant woman with a bike tire(still attacked to the bike) is not that big a deal?

Was this man arrested? Yes. Is the criminal complaint and photo taken by police now public record? Yes=post it

 

[avenue94]

And when an arrest is made, the criminal complaint and photos can be attained by a foia request. Why not release this guys pic since he was arrested and maybe his face should be out there. We know when he is eventually convicted of at least, receiving stolen property, he will get a light slap on the wrist despite destroying this guy’s business. These turds need exposed to the light.

I have no problem with it being released after trial and due process. I'm pointing out there isn't much upside in this case to doing it before that.

And yep, I was a cop. So what? It was in jest. Would I really put a thieve’s nuts in a vice? Well, maybe, since there’s no other justice going around. Relax a bit, buddy

I am relaxed and fascinated by this obsession with testicles and vises, which is also a vice.

 

[nhbbear]

I have no problem with it being released after trial and due process. I'm pointing out there isn't much upside in this case to doing it before that.

I am relaxed and fascinated by this obsession with testicles and vises, which is also a vice.

In my opinion, the news posts pics of suspects all the time. This time, it may actually help someone avoid interacting with someone planning to steal from them. Or in the case of some nut in the subways that likes to push old ladies onto the tracks-maybe someone sees the news and is more cautious around them.

It doesn’t have to be the testicles. There are plenty of painful appendages to grab hold of with tools. I can come up with lots of ideas.

For example, in the police academy, one of the instructors asked me in class what I would do to a child rapist if I had immunity. This was after showing us the damage to a six year old’s vagina and I visibly winced. The instructor said “you seemed to have quite the reaction to that-tell me, what is the worst torture you could come up with for someone that does this?” My answer shocked him. I said for starters, I would stick a curling iron up his ass and then turn it on. Then I would insert a wire hanger in his urethra and hold a blow torch to it. I again, reiterated that this was for starters. He said he didn’t need to hear any more. He went into a speech about how the best I could hope for was life in prison and maybe the guy has a really rough time during his stay in prison. Then, he mentioned that if I ever tried to do any of the things I suggested, he said I could have a cell right next to him and prison isn’t much fun for cops either.

Obviously, I have never done anything like that, but it was meant as an exercise of sorts. I think Arabic countries that cut off the hands of thieves are going a bit far, but if you told me that someone that used a computer to wipe out someone’s life savings had all their fingers broken, I wouldn’t be upset. Same with this thief-nice convicted, of course. My point is I am not opposed to corporal punishment in some cases. I think that pain is a strong motivator and lessons can be learned. After getting smacked upside the head with a wooden spoon, I never talked back to my grandmother again.

 

[avenue94]

It doesn’t have to be the testicles. There are plenty of painful appendages to grab hold of with tools. I can come up with lots of ideas.

It's almost as if your entire fantasy of justice is based off the idea that the innocent are always found innocent. In other words, it's a fantasy with that is inapplicable to the real world.

 

[nhbbear]

It's almost as if your entire fantasy of justice is based off the idea that the innocent are always found innocent. In other words, it's a fantasy with that is inapplicable to the real world.

Well, my sense of justice is not everyone’s cup o tea. When there is absolutely zero doubt-dna match, crime on video, etc-I am all on board with quick and harsh punishments, but I recognize that things do not always go the way they are supposed to, so it is just a fantasy if justice. As a society, we will never break the hands of thieves or quickly kill a child rapist, so that’s all it is, just a revenge fantasy

 

[avenue94]

Well, my sense of justice is not everyone’s cup o tea. When there is absolutely zero doubt-dna match, crime on video, etc-I am all on board with quick and harsh punishments, but I recognize that things do not always go the way they are supposed to, so it is just a fantasy if justice. As a society, we will never break the hands of thieves or quickly kill a child rapist, so that’s all it is, just a revenge fantasy

I can respect at least acknowledging how far afield your position is. Still wild, but at least you recognize that.

 

[650lb Sumo]

I can respect at least acknowledging how far afield your position is. Still wild, but at least you recognize that.

If cruel and unusual punishment is on the table I hope @nhbbear doesn't rely on the Constutition in any of his other views.