Crime Trump found liable for fraud in NY civil case

[Limbo Pete]

@Terry Noonan
@Limbo Pete

Palm county sets the assessed value at what the property would have sold for on the open market on Jan 1. of that calendar year. It is the market value of the property, not a percentage of that value as seen in some municipalities.

 

[Terry Noonan]

Trump lost a fraud case because the numbers he was putting on financial statements were not true. I don't care what he puts on the paperwork when he was lying on the paperwork, lol.

The county used fair market value and he agreed with it. There really isn't anything else to argue about when it comes to the economic value of the property in discussion.

Go write cnn and all those in that article that acknowledge the tax assessed value is not the fair market value. I’m with you, we can get you some national exposure.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Go write cnn and all those in that article that acknowledge the tax assessed value is not the fair market value. I’m with you, we can get you some national exposure.

This is some desperate and deluded panic wrestling

 

[panamaican]

Go write cnn and all those in that article that acknowledge the tax assessed value is not the fair market value. I’m with you, we can get you some national exposure.

I don't give a fuck what they're saying on CNN.

Palm County assess the market value at $28 million or whatever the number was most recently, Trump agreed with that. Then he put a different number on financial documents.

 

[Terry Noonan]

I don't give a fuck what they're saying on CNN.

Palm County assess the market value at $28 million or whatever the number was most recently, Trump agreed with that. Then he put a different number on financial documents.

They’re different basis’…. This isn’t hard.

he may have overvalued the property and committed fraud. The prosecutor still picked a low hanging valuation number out there to further the case. It’s easy to point to, and then rake him over the coals with the headline. Also, don’t curse at me, my ears are sensitive.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I don't give a fuck what they're saying on CNN.

Palm County assess the market value at $28 million or whatever the number was most recently, Trump agreed with that. Then he put a different number on financial documents.

I'm no law talking guy, but iirc there's a word for that. Like, it's a crime of some sort. Something... what was it now....

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[panamaican]

They’re different basis’…. This isn’t hard.

he may have overvalued the property and committed fraud. The prosecutor still picked a low hanging valuation number out there to further the case. It’s easy to point to, and then rake him over the coals with the headline. Also, don’t curse at me, my ears are sensitive.

Good fucking lord.

• The “Market Value” box will state last year’s assessed value and the one proposed for this tax year.
• The proposed value is based on what an appraiser believes your home could have sold for on January 1 of that year.

Palm county set the market value at $28 million. The market value. The market value. The MARKET VALUE. Please stop talking about anything but the market value, it's ludicrous. The county set the...wait for it...wait for it...market value at $28 million. Trump agreed that the market value, the market value, MV, MARKET VALUE, was $28 million.

 

[Terry Noonan]

Good fucking lord.

Palm county set the market value at $28 million. The market value. The market value. The MARKET VALUE. Please stop talking about anything but the market value, it's ludicrous. The county set the...wait for it...wait for it...market value at $28 million. Trump agreed that the market value, the market value, MV, MARKET VALUE, was $28 million.

Typical attorney. Try to talk over anyone and everyone. They’re different fucking valuation methodologies.

 

[panamaican]

Typical attorney. Try to talk over anyone and everyone. They’re different fucking valuation methodologies.

No, they're not.

 

[Terry Noonan]

No, they're not.

You sure you don’t want to throw another “fuck” in here and talk down to me?

I pulled a recently sold house IN PALM BEACH. Property tax assessed fair market value = $2.8m. It just sold for $6.5m.
They aren’t the same thing.

 

[panamaican]

You sure you don’t want to throw another “fuck” in here and talk down to me?

No, I'm good talking down to you just like this.

You keep going on and on about market value while ignoring that the number presented by the county, signed off by Trump and being discussed by the judge is the market value. You keep talking about different valuation methodologies but fair market value is valued the same way everywhere -- what will someone pay you for the property.

It's as if you want to argue that fair market value means one thing when the county is determining it but fair market value means something else when anyone else is determining it. Or you're failing to understand that some counties assess fair market value and set property taxes based on that. Either way, the wholesale refusal to accept basic valuation facts is insane to me.

 

[Terry Noonan]

No, I'm good talking down to you just like this.

You keep going on and on about market value while ignoring that the number presented by the county, signed off by Trump and being discussed by the judge is the market value. You keep talking about different valuation methodologies but fair market value is valued the same way everywhere -- what will someone pay you for the property.

It's as if you want to argue that fair market value means one thing when the county is determining it but fair market value means something else when anyone else is determining it. Or you're failing to understand that some counties assess fair market value and set property taxes based on that. Either way, the wholesale refusal to accept basic valuation facts is insane to me.

I just gave you a fact pattern in the edited post. A house in the county, listed at a fraction of the sold transaction value in the market place. Not what a tax assessor valued it at.

His FS and his tax valuations aren’t going to match.

pretty sure we’re at an impasse here where we will never agree. Wish you the best dude. Don’t take this out on one of your poor associates at the firm.

 

[Limbo Pete]

You sure you don’t want to throw another “fuck” in here and talk down to me?

I pulled a recently sold house IN PALM BEACH. Property tax assessed fair market value = $2.8m. It just sold for $6.5m.
They aren’t the same thing.

This is basically you grubbing around to try and find a way to rationalize your incredulity
Also: Mar-A-Lago isn't a house, it's a historic property mandated for use as a social club, so i'm not sure why you think any of your hair brained comparisons are worth a damn

 

[panamaican]

I just gave you a fact pattern in the edited post. A house in the county, listed at a fraction of the sold transaction value in the market place. Not what a tax assessor valued it at.

His FS and his tax valuations aren’t going to match.

pretty sure we’re at an impasse here where we will never agree. Wish you the best dude. Don’t take this out on one of your poor associates at the firm.

You still don't understand the difference. That's fine. I'll explain to you why your example doesn't mean what you think it means.

A house in the county appraised by a licensed real estate appraiser for $2.8M. That's the FMV, based on the accepted method of calculating FMV. Once on the market, someone overpays for the property. That doesn't change the FMV, it just means that someone over paid. Someone could just as easily pay less than the FMV, it still wouldn't change the FMV.

You seem to believe that FMV is some number that people pull out of a hat. It's not. It's a methodology that real estate appraisers use and is accepted. There are software programs that will do the calculation for you. What someone subsequently pays doesn't change the FMV for the time that it was calculated.

I've argued FMV calculations in front of property tax boards. Those FMV numbers are produced by licensed professionals. Even if you bring in dueling experts, your appraiser has to be applying a known appraisal methodology. You can't roll into court and say "I think the property is worth $XX." The very first question that has to be answered is "Where is your appraisal report, prepared by a licensed real estate appraiser".

Hence Trump's problem. There's a licensed appraisal report out there, prepared by an expert and used by the county, that sets the value at $28 million. That's the number. If you can get a sucker to pay you more or you're desperate and sell it for less...it doesn't fucking matter. The FMV is still the FMV.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Trump is awesome, he's way more fun than our boring as fuck politicians

 

[Terry Noonan]

You still don't understand the difference. That's fine. I'll explain to you why your example doesn't mean what you think it means.

A house in the county appraised by a licensed real estate appraiser for $2.8M. That's the FMV, based on the accepted method of calculating FMV. Once on the market, someone overpays for the property. That doesn't change the FMV, it just means that someone over paid. Someone could just as easily pay less than the FMV, it still wouldn't change the FMV.

You seem to believe that FMV is some number that people pull out of a hat. It's not. It's a methodology that real estate appraisers use and is accepted. There are software programs that will do the calculation for you. What someone subsequently pays doesn't change the FMV for the time that it was calculated.

I've argued FMV calculations in front of property tax boards. Those FMV numbers are produced by licensed professionals. Even if you bring in dueling experts, your appraiser has to be applying a known appraisal methodology. You can't roll into court and say "I think the property is worth $XX." The very first question that has to be answered is "Where is your appraisal report, prepared by a licensed real estate appraiser".

Hence Trump's problem. There's a licensed appraisal report out there, prepared by an expert and used by the county, that sets the value at $28 million. That's the number. If you can get a sucker to pay you more or you're desperate and sell it for less...it doesn't fucking matter. The FMV is still the FMV.

So everyone is a sucker buying property because they inheritantly pay MORE than the assessed value? Good to know dude: thanks for educating me. Couple thousand suckers a year in Palm Beach alone. Nice.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Whoooosh

 

[LangfordBarrow]

They’re different basis’…. This isn’t hard.

he may have overvalued the property and committed fraud. The prosecutor still picked a low hanging valuation number out there to further the case. It’s easy to point to, and then rake him over the coals with the headline. Also, don’t curse at me, my ears are sensitive.

What was your headline? MAL is worth more than $18 million or more than $27 million?

 

[panamaican]

So everyone is a sucker buying property because they inheritantly pay MORE than the assessed value? Good to know dude: thanks for educating me. Couple thousand suckers a year in Palm Beach alone. Nice.

No, they pay more than the FMV. FMV. FMV.

Please, for god's sake, stop ignoring that I'm talking about market value.

And you haven't been paying attention to real estate for the last 5 years it appears. People have been overpaying for property everywhere in the country. You list a house for $XX. You get a dozen offers for $XX + 20%. It's nuts out there.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I'm no law talking guy, but iirc there's a word for that. Like, it's a crime of some sort. Something... what was it now....

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Gave you the like but you overvalued that joke by about 4 spoilers...