Economy Water Privatisation not working out for the UK.

[Siver!]

The idea of competition either makes for corruption (companies bolstering each other because one failing would look bad), or monopolization. The idea of competition is that all threats are essentially eliminated and then everything becomes whether or not the giant corporation who thinks perpetual growth is sustainable and realistic to be nice. This is seen in the meat processing industry as corporate concentration has allowed for there to be about 4 major companies doing this, and they f*ck over the cattle ranchers on the front end and the consumers on the back end. This is also seen in the pharmaceutical industry. Recently Sandeds grilled Pharma CEO's on their price gouging, skip to 5:58 of this video and you'll see them outright say they wont lower cost due to a lack of competition for specific drugs:



The lack of competition is largely because of their business practices, and a lack of regulation. Anarcho-capitalist Libertarians would have us believe that removing regulations further would somehow eliminate this as opposed to making it worse.

A much better summary than I'm capable of, hespect!

 

[Sinister]

A much better summary than I'm capable of, hespect!

There's an interesting series on Netflix called "The Toys That Made Us"...and a good YouTube channeld called "Company Man." Watching the first series of the toy one, it covered lots of giant toy lines from the 80's. He-Man, G.I. Joe, Transformers...and went into a lot of what went wrong. First of all those companies were MASSIVE and hade global influence. But the thing that stuck out to me the most was the inability of the executives to anticipate market changes. Kinda like what Blockbuster did. They just thought theyd never fail, and stopped caring what kids actually thought, figuring they could tell them what they wanted. They also saturated their own markets. It's really bonehead stuff that makes you wonder what these people were thinking. Company Man reveals the same thing about all sorts of chains that failed, like how giant department store chains over-expanded, and then when they couldnt move their out-dated products they refused to liquidate them and just tried to change the looks of the stores while still selling 10 year-old junk.

It's all really fascinating how these corporations try to just get as big as possible, rake in as much profit as possible, lost touch with actual consumers, and inevitably collapse under some CEO who thinks trying to force people to buy worse sh*t is a great idea. Hell that's going on with the WWE right this second. Just like that one d*ckhead CEO whose practices eventually collapsed GE, Jack Welch.

 

[Siver!]

There's an interesting series on Netflix called "The Toys That Made Us"...and a good YouTube channeld called "Company Man." Watching the first series of the toy one, it covered lots of giant toy lines from the 80's. He-Man, G.I. Joe, Transformers...and went into a lot of what went wrong. First of all those companies were MASSIVE and hade global influence. But the thing that stuck out to me the most was the inability of the executives to anticipate market changes. Kinda like what Blockbuster did. They just thought theyd never fail, and stopped caring what kids actually thought, figuring they could tell them what they wanted. They also saturated their own markets. It's really bonehead stuff that makes you wonder what these people were thinking. Company Man reveals the same thing about all sorts of chains that failed, like how giant department store chains over-expanded, and then when they couldnt move their out-dated products they refused to liquidate them and just tried to change the looks of the stores while still selling 10 year-old junk.

It's all really fascinating how these corporations try to just get as big as possible, rake in as much profit as possible, lost touch with actual consumers, and inevitably collapse under some CEO who thinks trying to force people to buy worse sh*t is a great idea. Hell that's going on with the WWE right this second. Just like that one d*ckhead CEO whose practices eventually collapsed GE, Jack Welch.

I haven't watched 'Toys' but actually this is a good reminder. I fucking love toys first and foremost, but everything else on top.

Actually Netflix themselves, bizarrely, probably open themselves up to many of the same criticisms.

They're trying to use algorithms and whatnot, but just end up cancelling every long-running series prematurely because they're so invested in what they think is happening - when what they need to know is what will happen, and what people will demand going forwards.

Fascinating stuff!

 

[Sinister]

I haven't watched 'Toys' but actually this is a good reminder. I fucking love toys first and foremost, but everything else on top.

Actually Netflix themselves, bizarrely, probably open themselves up to many of the same criticisms.

They're trying to use algorithms and whatnot, but just end up cancelling every long-running series prematurely because they're so invested in what they think is happening - when what they need to know is what will happen, and what people will demand going forwards.

Fascinating stuff!

Yeah they're kind of signing their own death warrant via alienating their own users, not to mention the shit going on with writers. Its really st00pid the lengths private corporations will go to in order to exploit labor, whereas just doing the right thing and taking care of people will make them far more viable in the long-term. Execs tend to think about squeezing every dollar out of every consumer, without realizing that makes people feel like every time they interact with you, you're picking their pocket. They dont think about having lifelong client bases and employees. GE became one of THE most bedrock corporations in the US by that philosophy, until Jack Welch took over.

You'll really enjoy the toy show:



But the stupidity may break your heart.

 

[Siver!]

Yeah they're kind of signing their own death warrant via alienating their own users, not to mention the shit going on with writers. Its really st00pid the lengths private corporations will go to in order to exploit labor, whereas just doing the right thing and taking care of people will make them far more viable in the long-term. Execs tend to think about squeezing every dollar out of every consumer, without realizing that makes people feel like every time they interact with you, you're picking their pocket. They dont think about having lifelong client bases and employees. GE became one of THE most bedrock corporations in the US by that philosophy, until Jack Welch took over.

You'll really enjoy the toy show:



But the stupidity may break your heart.

Yeah, I'm watching it. That looks ace.

I hope to uncover the reasons why Visionaries never made it.

A cartoon made to sell toys, not selling that many toys, but still being a dope cartoon... with dope toys.

MORE TIME, DAMN IT!!

DinoRiders too.

Companies are dumb. Privatising water is especially dumb when you know companies are dumb.

 

[Sinister]

Yeah, I'm watching it. That looks ace.

I hope to uncover the reasons why Visionaries never made it.

A cartoon made to sell toys, not selling that many toys, but still being a dope cartoon... with dope toys.

MORE TIME, DAMN IT!!

DinoRiders too.

Companies are dumb. Privatising water is especially dumb when you know companies are dumb.

Ha! I havent been able to get Visionaries out of my head for 35 years. Such a great concept. "Knights of the magical liiiiiggghhhtt!!" The figures were even better quality than GI Joes IMO. But
...

Market saturation. There were so many genius ideas that went to bupkus back then just because it was unrealistic to compete with the big boys and the big boys were flooding the market.

But yes, privatization of everything is a garbage idea. Especially resources. Where I live there's a looming water crisis and I cant imagine some d*ckhead CEO going "....yeah we can totally maximize profit because of this.:

 

[tastaylvr]

Which free market doesn't eventually attempt to regulate privately-run monopolies?

It is not a free market if there is regulation involved.

Regulation implies monopoly.

 

[Siver!]

Ha! I havent been able to get Visionaries out of my head for 35 years. Such a great concept. "Knights of the magical liiiiiggghhhtt!!" The figures were even better quality than GI Joes IMO. But
...

Market saturation. There were so many genius ideas that went to bupkus back then just because it was unrealistic to compete with the big boys and the big boys were flooding the market.

But yes, privatization of everything is a garbage idea. Especially resources. Where I live there's a looming water crisis and I cant imagine some d*ckhead CEO going "....yeah we can totally maximize profit because of this.:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sor...#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:7244bd62,vid:wgZwngXiLK8

Sorcery Squared is way beyond the level of writing required, and the iconography is awesome...

Plus

"By nature's hand, by craft by art, what once was one now FLY APART!!"

Summoning a demon of destruction is beyond bad ass!

 

[curryjunkie]

Yeah, I'm watching it. That looks ace.

I hope to uncover the reasons why Visionaries never made it.

A cartoon made to sell toys, not selling that many toys, but still being a dope cartoon... with dope toys.

MORE TIME, DAMN IT!!

DinoRiders too.

Companies are dumb. Privatising water is especially dumb when you know companies are dumb.

The tories basically sold off the countries assets for pennies on the pound, both because they knew they could enrich themselves doing it and to prop up an economy that needed billions on investment just to keep going, victorian infrastructure in the case of water needed massive investment to modernize it, same as the train network. Britain no longer had an empire to suck money from and heavy industry couldn't compete with cheaper imports and better products. Now there's fuck all left except the NHS . Everyone pays through the nose and private companies invest fuck all then hold out their hand for money to upgrade. People have been dumb enough to fall for this shit since thatcher.

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

There’s no such thing as society, so steal and cheat and loot. Just one thing to remember, make sure you wear a suit.

The tories basically sold off the countries assets for pennies on the pound, both because they knew they could enrich themselves doing it and to prop up an economy that needed billions on investment just to keep going, victorian infrastructure in the case of water needed massive investment to modernize it, same as the train network. Britain no longer had an empire to suck money from and heavy industry couldn't compete with cheaper imports and better products. Now there's fuck all left except the NHS . Everyone pays through the nose and private companies invest fuck all then hold out their hand for money to upgrade. People have been dumb enough to fall for this shit since thatcher.

And a large majority of those formally nationalised industries sold off receive tax payer subsidies to the tune of hundreds of millions a year

 

[650lb Sumo]

Update:

The Thames Water crisis is rolling on.

Spoiler: Link

Thames Water makes bid to lift bills by up to 44%

The troubled water firm pledges to invest more in the environment ahead of a key meeting with Ofwat.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thames Water is attempting to persuade the regulator to let it raise consumer bills by up to 44% over the next five years by increasing investment.

The heavily indebted water firm aims to spend at least £1.1bn more on environmental measures.

Thames's huge debts have led to speculation it could be taken over by the government. ...t... has debts of about £14.7bn and... has also come under fierce criticism for water leaks and sewage spillages.

Thames had originally proposed investing £18.7bn between 2025 and 2030 and increasing customer bills by 40%, on top of inflation, over the five-year period. Ofwat dismissed this plan, prompting shareholders at Thames' parent company, Kemble Water, to withdraw a proposed cash injection and default on debt interest payments.

Thames is by no means the only water company planning big prices rises over the next few years. In plans put before Ofwat in October last year, Southern Water proposed a 66% price rise on top of inflation, while Severn Trent put forward a 37% increase. It is thought that a final decision from Ofwat will come at a crucial meeting on 23 May with a 'draft determination' of what companies will be allowed to charge from next year issued on 12 June.

Earlier this year data from Thames Water, analysed by London's City Hall, showed the number of hours in which sewage was dumped into the River Thames more than quadrupled last year.

Analysts say Thames Water's current debt amounts to about 80% of the value of the business, making it the most heavily indebted of England and Wales' water companies. A large proportion of its debt was added when Macquarie, an Australian infrastructure bank, owned Thames, with its debts standing above £10bn when the company was sold in 2017. Macquarie said it invested billions of pounds in upgrading Thames's infrastructure, but critics have argued it took billions out of the company in loans and dividends.

 

[moreorless87]

Anarcho-capitalist Libertarians would have us believe that removing regulations further would somehow eliminate this as opposed to making it worse.

Pretty much, I feel like a lot of support of such viewpoints ends up as very simplistic idealism that's ultimately being pushed by the big business which benefits most from it.

Even capitalist libertarian thinking which moves beyond this I think tends to buy into the idea that a "small government" and legal system needed to oversee business will somehow be incorruptible when history shows us that is simply impossible.

 

[Hog-train]

Some things should never be privatized. Like water, police forces, etc.

 

[Teppodama]

Any government that sells off the ownership of its natural resources to foreign national companies or individuals should be overthrown, violently if necessary. It shows a treasonous disregard of the citizenry the government is supposed to be representing.

 

[Renard]

This was rolled out ad hoc on the heels of the UK's 1976 $3.9 billion IMF loan, which imposed the cutting of public spending as a condition for receiving the loan. Default on this loan is also what lead to electricity privatization in the UK. The World Bank's IMF is a predatory organization that only gives loans it knows the country will default on. They routinely impose water privatization as either a condition for receiving the loan or as a condition if the loan is defaulted, when they know for a fact this will happen. The marketing is always that privatization will lead to more effective water services, but this is always false. What they do is all about benefiting the private shareholders of world banks and gutting a country to capitalists as much as humanly possible, thus stifling its' future growth and ensuring more need for future loans, especially in developing countries which are the IMF's #1 prey. Meanwhile brain-dead lefties act like this is some sort of saviour organization, just out here giving free money to help people out. Off-the-charts stupidity.

 

[Blayt7hh]

The idea of privatisation is competition.

What competition has Thames Water actually faced, though?

It's completely pointless.

Yeah the thing is competing over it can’t exist in a balanced way just owing to the nature of the industry. They all have to pull from the Thames and work within it in that area, for instance. But you can’t have 20 companies coming down there and drawing water and managing waste there to create the competitive market that makes capitalism work. That’s why the concept of utility companies with stricter regulations and profit caps was created.

This is just dumb and I imagine corruption behind the scenes is why it happened

And I just realized this thread is a bump

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

18 billion in debt but the shareholders are happy to take out 7 billion in dividends?! It’s a damn racket is what it is

 

[jimmas99]

This was rolled out ad hoc on the heels of the UK's 1976 $3.9 billion IMF loan, which imposed the cutting of public spending as a condition for receiving the loan. Default on this loan is also what lead to electricity privatization in the UK. The World Bank's IMF is a predatory organization that only gives loans it knows the country will default on. They routinely impose water privatization as either a condition for receiving the loan or as a condition if the loan is defaulted, when they know for a fact this will happen. The marketing is always that privatization will lead to more effective water services, but this is always false. What they do is all about benefiting the private shareholders of world banks and gutting a country to capitalists as much as humanly possible, thus stifling its' future growth and ensuring more need for future loans, especially in developing countries which are the IMF's #1 prey. Meanwhile brain-dead righties act like this is some sort of leftist organization, just out here giving free money to help people out. Off-the-charts stupidity.

Fixed it for you