Crime What did the cops do wrong today Megathread Vol. 6 ? (who knows, lots of cop threads)

[nhbbear]

Police were called by multiple people stating that a suspect was shooting a gun and shot a person. Description given, Anthony Marquis Franklin was encountered and had a gun in hand. He then ran and was shot in the back by police. Family has lawyers that are demanding charges be brought against the officers involved.

Case law that covers this shooting.

TN v Garner and Graham v Connor

TN v Garner is the case that deals with a fleeing felon and when police can shooting a fleeing subject. Basically, it says that police can only shoot a fleeing suspect when there is an immediate threat to the officers or the public.

Graham v Connor is the case that deals with officer use of force. The force has to be proportional to the crime and risk posed by the suspect without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight based upon information officers possessed at the time of the use of force. I have listed the graham factors in the past. If anyone wants me to list those again, I will.

Bottom line: absolutely justified according to both cases. This suspect had already shot one person, is encountered carrying a gun, and flees-posing a risk to the general public that outweighs the suspect’s fourth amendment rights to unreasonable search and seizure (all use of force is a 4th amendment seizure).

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/ant...olice-officers-attorneys-call-for-justice.amp

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Yeah if the dude is fleeing and has a gun then you can shoot him as far as I'm concerned.

 

[44nutman]

If he had a gun at a shooting, ran away, had witnesses saying he was shooting people then he was not innocent as the tweet said. The only thing the tweet got right was he was black.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Police were called by multiple people stating that a suspect was shooting a gun and shot a person. Description given, Anthony Marquis Franklin was encountered and had a gun in hand. He then ran and was shot in the back by police. Family has lawyers that are demanding charges be brought against the officers involved.

Case law that covers this shooting.

TN v Garner and Graham v Connor

TN v Garner is the case that deals with a fleeing felon and when police can shooting a fleeing subject. Basically, it says that police can only shoot a fleeing suspect when there is an immediate threat to the officers or the public.

Graham v Connor is the case that deals with officer use of force. The force has to be proportional to the crime and risk posed by the suspect without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight based upon information officers possessed at the time of the use of force. I have listed the graham factors in the past. If anyone wants me to list those again, I will.

Bottom line: absolutely justified according to both cases. This suspect had already shot one person, is encountered carrying a gun, and flees-posing a risk to the general public that outweighs the suspect’s fourth amendment rights to unreasonable search and seizure (all use of force is a 4th amendment seizure).

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/ant...olice-officers-attorneys-call-for-justice.amp

I always wonder what these families think the police should do with these armed fleeing resisting felons besides shoot them. Like if this was racial murder how should it have played out instead.

 

[BearGrounds]

The moment you attempt to put someone down with a weapon, is the moment you're declaring yourself eligible for the same.

That said, is this the same APD as the foothills standoff? If so, that department has a sketchy past (with regards to excessive force).

The article is unclear on the exact details, so it's hard to make an actual judgement on this one absent any footage, although I generally don't see much room for innocence when you've already attempted murder and are still weilding the weapon you used to attempt it.

 

[TTech]

Im not sure if he had to die, I think less than lethal options are far to seldom used/explored but if the guy had a gun and was shooting then its irrelevant if he was "fleeing", he couldve just as likely been running towards shooting more people since that was the established MO given his actions on the scene.
But due to race this is going to blow up again most likely. Almost never if its a black person there is any responsibility taken on the offensive side.

 

[nhbbear]

I always wonder what these families think the police should do with these armed fleeing resisting felons besides shoot them. Like if this was racial murder how should it have played out instead.

They just want their family member alive. I can understand that. What I don’t get is how the family/lawyers can overlook the fact that he just shot someone. The lawyers especially, because they should know the laws. They should know the case law better than I do and know this was a justified shooting, but greed and fame is what they seek and bakari sellers is a poor man’s crump.

 

[nhbbear]

The moment you attempt to put someone down with a weapon, is the moment you're declaring yourself eligible for the same.

That said, is this the same APD as the foothills standoff? If so, that department has a sketchy past (with regards to excessive force).

The article is unclear on the exact details, so it's hard to make an actual judgement on this one absent any footage, although I generally don't see much room for innocence when you've already attempted murder and are still weilding the weapon you used to attempt it.

Footage, sorry forgot it

 

[DoomPatrol]

They just want their family member alive. I can understand that. What I don’t get is how the family/lawyers can overlook the fact that he just shot someone. The lawyers especially, because they should know the laws. They should know the case law better than I do and know this was a justified shooting, but greed and fame is what they seek and bakari sellers is a poor man’s crump.

Well guns are legal to own and it could have been a self defense shooting I guess. So maybe they think the police should have been less jumpy on the trigger.

The video makes it look like he was just trying to do street gymnastics and got shot for it.

 

[nhbbear]

Im not sure if he had to die, I think less than lethal options are far to seldom used/explored but if the guy had a gun and was shooting then its irrelevant if he was "fleeing", he couldve just as likely been running towards shooting more people since that was the established MO given his actions on the scene.
But due to race this is going to blow up again most likely. Almost never if its a black person there is any responsibility taken on the offensive side.

Non-lethal is absolutely not the call here based on the presence of a gun that he has shown willingness to use

 

[nhbbear]

Well guns are legal to own and it could have been a self defense shooting I guess. So maybe they think the police should have been less jumpy on the trigger.

Well, they are dead wrong just like the shooter

 

[TTech]

Non-lethal is absolutely not the call here based on the presence of a gun that he has shown willingness to use

why not? The point is to incapacitate him, if the cops can do that with a non-lethal weapon why not ?

 

[SummerStriker]

If they didn't press charges on cops over grey shoots, cops would shoot a lot more people. "I'm terrified, love hurting people, and have a gun, so don't scare me by reminding me of anything I've heard of that is scary."

I think it is great they are going after the cop, just to keep them more honest.

As far as why the cop in this individual shooting shouldn't have killed the guy. The cop should have assumed the guy shot someone for a good reason, wouldn't do it again, and could 't afford to lose the expensive gun, and reasonably believed the cops would kill him no matter what. So the cops should have approached him with compassion until he actually started shooting again.

 

[shockaholic12]

Your OP is kind of confusing because it has a tweet calling him innocent and also it’s not 100% clear in your description that the subject the cops chased and shot who matched the description put out was confirmed to have been the shooter.

If he was, no problem.

 

[Gutter Chris]

why not? The point is to incapacitate him, if the cops can do that with a non-lethal weapon why not ?

Tazers often fail. When the suspect has a deadly weapon the fail rate of a tazer is a huge risk. When the suspect has a gun ita going to be lethal vs lethal almost always.

 

[mkess101]

Well guns are legal to own and it could have been a self defense shooting I guess. So maybe they think the police should have been less jumpy on the trigger.

The video makes it look like he was just trying to do street gymnastics and got shot for it.

If you shoot someone in self defense, (and I'm just gonna go out on a limb here), your next course of action would generally be to contact the police yourself and put down the gun. Keeping the gun in your hand and running from the cops after having already shot someone kinda puts them in the spot where they have to put you down before you shoot someone else.

 

[nhbbear]

why not? The point is to incapacitate him, if the cops can do that with a non-lethal weapon why not ?

Because you are looking for a guy that is an active shooter. According to TN v Garner, the threat he posed to the community outweighs his right to his 4th amendment rights. The fact that he was trying to run away with a gun in his hand puts officers and community at risk and non lethal force was not an option here. If they had time, maybe, but they clearly did not. Fuck him

 

[nhbbear]

If you shoot someone in self defense, (and I'm just gonna go out on a limb here), your next course of action would generally be to contact the police yourself and put down the gun. Keeping the gun in your hand and running from the cops after having already shot someone kinda puts them in the spot where they have to put you down before you shoot someone else.

Good point. I meant to point that out as well but got sidetracked by work, damn it

 

[nhbbear]

Your OP is kind of confusing because it has a tweet calling him innocent and also it’s not 100% clear in your description that the subject the cops chased and shot who matched the description put out was confirmed to have been the shooter.

If he was, no problem.

He matched the description. It’s in the article I believe. I posted the tweet to show the “outrage”

 

[oldshadow]

The shooting was justified. The family and lawyers will publish 8th grade photos and say way a great guy he was. Austin is a very liberal town so I'm not sure this will not go somewhere. Maybe not legal charges and the city giving them money and the cops told on the side their career are stalled where they are if not forced to quit.

And why would anyone in their right mind want to be a cop now. Especially in any large city.