What Gun/s Are The Most Practical To Own?

[Grassshoppa]

Good point Echo. The difference between a 9mm and .45 round is like hitting someone with a hammer versus a sledge hammer.

 

[Brian C]

I'm not going to argue too much on caliber because everyone discusses that and argues their points and most think that "bigger is better". Shot placement is what counts. I'm going to post some things a guy I know did... he's a ballistic expert that works at Stanford University Medical Center. He is the guy I go to for ballistic and body armor questions. These are taken from other sites.

"When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr:

As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com .

Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc&#8230

-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

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Basically all the standard service calibers work when using good quality ammunition.

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The keys are:

-- Cultivate a warrior mindset
-- Invest in competent, thorough initial training and then maintain skills with regular ongoing practice
-- Acquire a reliable and durable weapon system
-- Purchase a consistent, robust performing duty/self-defense load in sufficient quantities (at least 1000 rounds) then STOP worrying about the nuances of handgun ammunition terminal performance."

 

[Brian C]

Here's the second article.

"The last 25 years of modern wound ballistic research has demonstrated yet again what historical reports have always indicated--that there are only two valid methods of incapacitation: one based on psychological factors and the other physiological damage. People are often rapidly psychologically incapacitated by minor wounds that are not immediately physiologically incapacitating. Psychological factors are also the reason people can receive severe, even non-survivable wounds and continue functioning for short periods of time. Up to fifty percent of those individuals rapidly incapacitated by bullet wounds are probably incapacitated for psychological rather than physiological reasons. Psychological incapacitation is an extremely erratic, highly variable, and completely unpredictable human response, independent of any inherent characteristics of a particular projectile.

The degree and rapidity of any physiological incapacitation is determined by the anatomic structures the projectile disrupts and the severity of the tissue damage caused by the bullet. Physiologically, immediate incapacitation or death can only occur when the brain or upper spinal cord is damaged or destroyed. The tactical reality is that in combat, opportunities for military personnel to take precisely aimed shots at the CNS of enemy combatants is rare due to high stress unexpected contact marked by rapid fleeting movements, along with frequent poor visibility on the battlefield including use of cover and concealment. Thus the reduced likelihood of frequent planned CNS targeting in combat conditions. Absent CNS damage, circulatory system collapse from severe disruption of the vital organs and blood vessels in the torso is the only other reliable method of physiological incapacitation from small arms. If the CNS is uninjured, physiological incapacitation is delayed until blood loss is sufficient to deprive the brain of oxygen. Multiple hits may be needed before an individual is physiologically incapacitated. An individual wounded in any area of the body other than the CNS may physiologically be able to continue their actions for a short period of time, even with non-survivable injuries. In a 1992 IWBA Journal paper, Dr. Ken Newgard wrote the following about how blood loss effects incapacitation:

 

[EchoBoomer]

Good point Echo. The difference between a 9mm and .45 round is like hitting someone with a hammer versus a sledge hammer.

It is not that big of a difference, although I do believe that the .45 has more knock down power.

:icon_chee

In fact, I own a G21 and G26 with an extended mag which allows me to carry 12 rounds. I bought the G21 as a home defense weapon that i keep by my bed (first gun). Just recently I bought a g26, i thought that it was pretty cool that it was a lot smaller and i carry just as many rounds as my full sized G21. Once I get my CCW I'm going to carry my G26 in my edc kit. The only reason I bought the .45 first was because I learned how to shoot with a .45 (dad) and I must say that i prefer shooting the G21. However, I also enjoy the 9mm and shoot it a lot more now that I am buying my own ammo.

Stay Gold,
- Rene

 

[00 Buck]

Just my 2c, I felt that this wasn't discussed.

It wasn't discussed much because it ain't no thang really, with modern hollowpoints like the winchester ranger T, gold dots etc...

It could be argued that the bad guy would feel the velocity/energy of the faster round hitting him more than the slight difference in bullet diameter.

This could be why the hot loads like .357 in 125grains @ 1200fps, and it's ballistic copy the .357sig is well respected in target performance on the streets?

There seems to be a certain velocity/energy threshold where speed actually plays a part in BG reaction. Not obvious like the massive energy/velocity of rifle rounds, but it's there.

 

[D Train]

I feel the one of the most important things win considering "stopping power" is whether or not the bad guy will notice he has been shot. Now a lot of you might think "wtf?", but I have heard many times from friends that have served in the MIL/LE that have been shot and shot someone, including my own father. That most bad guys, unless you hit them with a heavy round, will not notice they have been shot and will keep fighting until they go into shock. Especially, if you are in a gunfight or dealing with someone that is desensitized to violence.

Now with that said, my uncle is a Los Angeles bulldog, my father and almost 95% of the males in my family are veterans, and they all prefer a 45 for home defense. The reason being if you are hit square with a 45, even the big guys, will know they have been shot and the psychological advantages this gives you in a fight are worth mentioning. Unless the guy is Rambo, he is gonna start thinking he already lost/ is dead.

Now say what you will, but I personally find a 45 round not only a lot more intimidating, but also comforting.

As far as a 12 gauge goes, you hit some one square with that...they are dead. Anyone who has ever shot one knows what I am talking about, just pure power.

Just my 2c, I felt that this wasn't discussed.

One of the problems with that argument is that the military isn't allowed to use JHP rounds (I think that's ridiculous, but whatever). A man shot with a 9mm JHP round will know he's been hit.

 

[SignalZero]

My home defense is a 20 ga. Side-by-side I've had for 19 years...it's nice and short and I'm not very concerned about over penetration. Will it kill? Maybe not, but I don't think getting shot in the face twice with bird shot is a very pleasant experience

 

[00 Buck]

My home defense is a 20 ga. Side-by-side I've had for 19 years...it's nice and short and I'm not very concerned about over penetration. Will it kill? Maybe not, but I don't think getting shot in the face twice with bird shot is a very pleasant experience

This might work, against gophers or something. B)


It will most likely not kill, and you'd be lucky if he isn't shooting back at you with something more effective than birdshot out of a 20 gauge!

 

[Lord of Lies]

Exactly, don't trust your life to birdshot.

 

[wheelkick]

My vote is for the Glock also. The most important thing is that it shoots when you need it. Glocks are second to none in that catagory. Try a full size like a 17 or 22. Something with a high capacity magazine.