What is your honest opinion on Mark Rippetoe?

[Baby Hanma]

I agree with most of what he says, but there’s one thing I’m having trouble with…

His assertion that cardio/conditioning is a waste of time on the trainee’s first year of training. I am all for gaining lots of strength, but I don’t believe your strength gains would turn to zero if you do cardio. And in combat sports, zero cardio means zero victories…

What do you all think of him and his training beliefs?

 

[ROcknrollracing]

More often than not he is correct about most things.

 

[cincymma79]

If you just want to be a good lifter he’s fine. If you want to be good at something you’ll need a more specific coach

 

[Fahcough]

He's some chunky guy that randomly pops up on my YT feed but talks entirely too slow to listen to but sounds like he would be really good at reading kids bedtime stories

 

[gspieler]

Pros:
He's entertaining and charismatic.

He knows how to teach good technique in the big lifts.

Knows how to write effective program for getting bigger/stronger.

Tons of experience as a coach.



Cons:
Has little/no understanding of the importance of conditioning, to human performance, health, or fitness.

Completely disregards that mobility work has any benefit.

Assumes bigger = better, regardless of context, and has little/no understanding of the concept of dimishing returns, as it pertains to strength training.

Really has limited knowledge of anything human performance related, outside of specifically how to get bigger/stronger, but frequently speaks on matters outside his scope, as if he's an expert.

Is not above being intellectuall dishonest. Will commonly use logical fallacies, as they fit his argument. Has literally (and unironically) made statements like "if the scientific literature disagrees with us, then the scientific literature is wrong." But will also appeal to research when it happens to agree with bias. It doesn't get much more intellectually dishonest than that.

 

[Baby Hanma]

Pros:
He's entertaining and charismatic.

He knows how to teach good technique in the big lifts.

Knows how to write effective program for getting bigger/stronger.

Tons of experience as a coach.



Cons:
Has little/no understanding of the importance of conditioning, to human performance, health, or fitness.

Completely disregards that mobility work has any benefit.

Assumes bigger = better, regardless of context, and has little/no understanding of the concept of dimishing returns, as it pertains to strength training.

Really has limited knowledge of anything human performance related, outside of specifically how to bigger/stronger, but frequently speaks on mattera outside his scope, as if he's an expert.

Is not above being intellectuall dishonest. Will commonly use logical fallacies, as they fit his argument. Has literally (and unironically) made statements like "if the scientific literature disagrees with us, then the scientific literature is wrong."

I think this is a great evaluation.

My issue with him is that he thinks that a big squat, bench, and deadlift is everything. He even has the audacity to make fun of Olympic lifters of all people.

Another issue I have with him is that he thinks five repetitions is gospel… I mean WTF man, people can also get strong with sets of sixes or sevens. Even eights.

 

[Poon Goon]

My issue with him is that he thinks that a big squat, bench, and deadlift is everything.

You forgot OHP, but it's still weird that this is your issue with him. His focus is general strength training so of course those movements are what he thinks are best. I don't see how you can fault him for that. There are plenty of other reasons to dislike the guy though.

 

[Baby Hanma]

You forgot OHP, but it's still weird that this is your issue with him. His focus is general strength training so of course those movements are what he thinks are best. I don't see how you can fault him for that. There are plenty of other reasons to dislike the guy though.

I‘m a powerlifter who values strength more than martial arts prowess. My Judo is secondary to my powerlifting goals. Lots of Olympic lifters who love Olympic lifting don’t make fun of athletes from other sports. You see someone like Eddie Hall from strongman trying other sports.

Nah man, I believe it’s a valid criticism. None of us here will ever dispute that Rippetoe is one of the best people in the world in turning beginner lifters into advanced intermediates. But even I don't preach my own “big four” lifts of squat, bench, clean pull, and bent over row as gospel. I believe they‘re the best, but I respect others’ interpretations too.

 

[Poon Goon]

I‘m a powerlifter who values strength more than martial arts prowess. My Judo is secondary to my powerlifting goals. Lots of Olympic lifters who love Olympic lifting don’t make fun of athletes from other sports. You see someone like Eddie Hall from strongman trying other sports.

Nah man, I believe it’s a valid criticism. None of us here will ever dispute that Rippetoe is one of the best people in the world in turning beginner lifters into advanced intermediates. But even I don't preach my own “big four” lifts of squat, bench, clean pull, and bent over row as gospel. I believe they‘re the best, but I respect others’ interpretations too.

My point is that he's speaking directly to his targeted audience only, beginner lifters in strength training. He's abrasive and he seems like an asshole, but why would he tell his audience about how oly lifting is good for them when it's not?

 

[Baby Hanma]

My point is that he's speaking directly to his targeted audience only, beginner lifters in strength training. He's abrasive and he seems like an asshole, but why would he tell his audience about how oly lifting is good for them when it's not?

Because not one coach in the world should be entitled to believe he knows the best for all types of athletes.

 

[Poon Goon]

Because not one coach in the world should be entitled to believe he knows the best for all types of athletes.

It seems like you are misunderstanding what I am saying. He's not talking to all types of athletes, he's targeting a specific group of people. He advertises that his program will get you bigger and stronger and that's what he does for beginners. He doesn't even say he's going to make you a great powerlifter much less other completely different sports.

 

[Baby Hanma]

It seems like you are misunderstanding what I am saying. He's not talking to all types of athletes, he's targeting a specific group of people. He advertises that his program will get you bigger and stronger and that's what he does for beginners. He doesn't even say he's going to make you a great powerlifter much less other completely different sports.

I know that. He emphasized it more than once in multiple videos. But you’re wrong in saying he’s targeting a specific group of people. The dude has a cult-like following and he wants the entire human population to worship the barbell. Why on earth would he blatantly and publicly criticize other athletes and how they train if his goal was to stick to his niche?

He’s a sly businessman is what he is.

I don’t know man. Maybe I’m wrong. Bottom line, my issue with him is that he thinks barbell training will solve all problems in athletics. He is absolutely right if the entire world of sports wanted to be big and strong, but that’s not the case. Tons of athletes prefer to stay weak and puny. He thinks being a marathon runner is a sin that must be purged…

If everyone decides to man up and lift, they’re gonna outshine me. I don’t want Rippetoe to make that a reality.

 

[gspieler]

I know that. He emphasized it more than once in multiple videos. But you’re wrong in saying he’s targeting a specific group of people. The dude has a cult-like following and he wants the entire human population to worship the barbell. Why on earth would he blatantly and publicly criticize other athletes and how they train if his goal was to stick to his niche?

He’s a sly businessman is what he is.

I don’t know man. Maybe I’m wrong. Bottom line, my issue with him is that he thinks barbell training will solve all problems in athletics. He is absolutely right if the entire world of sports wanted to be big and strong, but that’s not the case. Tons of athletes prefer to stay weak and puny. He thinks being a marathon runner is a sin that must be purged…

If everyone decides to man up and lift, they’re gonna outshine me. I don’t want Rippetoe to mak

He's in top form on his "why you shouldn't run" video. Makes claims like "strength training improves both strength and cardio, so you don't need to do cardio".

It's like yeah, Mark, not to be that guy, but 5x5's w/ 5-minute rest intervals will only improve your cardio if you're coming from a sedentary lifestyle. In which case, literally any type of physical activity will improve your cardio. You show me a trainee who's only done Starting Strength + GOMAD for a 1+ years, and I'll show you a trainee who can't run a 30 min 5k.

Has all kinds of other gems, too, like saying military recruits should ditch conditioining work, and just do heavy barbell training, because we live in an age of mechanized warfare, where soldiers no longer have to march on foot. Like yeah, I'm sure having a bunch of young guys, who have little training, and who are eager to prove themselves, maxing out on DL's, is a great idea, and won't lead negative consequences.

 

[ChickenBrother]

You show me a trainee who's only done Starting Strength + GOMAD for a 1+ years, and I'll show you a trainee who can't run a 30 min 5k.

Lol it wouldn't even take a year. I went from being a motivated runner who could run around 21 minutes 5K to doing Stronglifts 5x5 (pretty much same thing as Starting Strength) for 4 months with no cardio. Forced myself to overeat, got significantly stronger and gained 26 lbs of which at least some was muscle. Started feeling bloated, decided to try a run and struggled to even maintain a 10-minute/mile pace. I don't know if I could have finished a 5K but it for sure would have taken more than 30 minutes.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Pros:
He's entertaining and charismatic.

He knows how to teach good technique in the big lifts.

Knows how to write effective program for getting bigger/stronger.

Tons of experience as a coach.



Cons:
Has little/no understanding of the importance of conditioning, to human performance, health, or fitness.

Completely disregards that mobility work has any benefit.

Assumes bigger = better, regardless of context, and has little/no understanding of the concept of dimishing returns, as it pertains to strength training.

Really has limited knowledge of anything human performance related, outside of specifically how to get bigger/stronger, but frequently speaks on matters outside his scope, as if he's an expert.

Is not above being intellectuall dishonest. Will commonly use logical fallacies, as they fit his argument. Has literally (and unironically) made statements like "if the scientific literature disagrees with us, then the scientific literature is wrong." But will also appeal to research when it happens to agree with bias. It doesn't get much more intellectually dishonest than that.

every one of these criticisms are false.

1. this is not true he simply says static stretching is a waste of time
2. being stronger is never a negative attribute
3. what does this even mean?
4. all science is bro science anyways

 

[ROcknrollracing]

I know that. He emphasized it more than once in multiple videos. But you’re wrong in saying he’s targeting a specific group of people. The dude has a cult-like following and he wants the entire human population to worship the barbell. Why on earth would he blatantly and publicly criticize other athletes and how they train if his goal was to stick to his niche?

He’s a sly businessman is what he is.

I don’t know man. Maybe I’m wrong. Bottom line, my issue with him is that he thinks barbell training will solve all problems in athletics. He is absolutely right if the entire world of sports wanted to be big and strong, but that’s not the case. Tons of athletes prefer to stay weak and puny. He thinks being a marathon runner is a sin that must be purged…

If everyone decides to man up and lift, they’re gonna outshine me. I don’t want Rippetoe to make that a reality.

have you been not paying your dues to satan enough lately? He never said a marathon runner should be a powerlifter

 

[ROcknrollracing]

He's in top form on his "why you shouldn't run" video. Makes claims like "strength training improves both strength and cardio, so you don't need to do cardio".

It's like yeah, Mark, not to be that guy, but 5x5's w/ 5-minute rest intervals will only improve your cardio if you're coming from a sedentary lifestyle. In which case, literally any type of physical activity will improve your cardio. You show me a trainee who's only done Starting Strength + GOMAD for a 1+ years, and I'll show you a trainee who can't run a 30 min 5k.

Has all kinds of other gems, too, like saying military recruits should ditch conditioining work, and just do heavy barbell training, because we live in an age of mechanized warfare, where soldiers no longer have to march on foot. Like yeah, I'm sure having a bunch of young guys, who have little training, and who are eager to prove themselves, maxing out on DL's, is a great idea, and won't lead negative consequences.

He never said everybody should do gomad only very underweight teens. Where did he say soldiers should max out deadlifts? Barbell training for a completely sedentary person improves conditioning.

 

[Pitbull]

I‘m a powerlifter who values strength more than martial arts prowess. My Judo is secondary to my powerlifting goals. Lots of Olympic lifters who love Olympic lifting don’t make fun of athletes from other sports. You see someone like Eddie Hall from strongman trying other sports.

Nah man, I believe it’s a valid criticism. None of us here will ever dispute that Rippetoe is one of the best people in the world in turning beginner lifters into advanced intermediates. But even I don't preach my own “big four” lifts of squat, bench, clean pull, and bent over row as gospel. I believe they‘re the best, but I respect others’ interpretations too.

I'll dispute it. What are you basing this on?

 

[gspieler]

every one of these criticisms are false.

1. this is not true he simply says static stretching is a waste of time
2. being stronger is never a negative attribute
3. what does this even mean?
4. all science is bro science anyways

1. I don't care enough to waste my time looking up clips where he shits on mobility work. They're out there.

2. If strength existed in a vacuum, it would never be a negative attribute. When it starts to adversely affect your endurance, speed, mobility, morbidity, and longevity, it can be negative.

Rip clearly follows a "strength above all else" philosophy, and his advice is almost always to do gain weight and add weight to bar, regardless of the level of the trained. Going from a 500lb squat to a 600lb squat isnt going to make someone a better tennis player, boxer, basketball player, electrician, bricklayer, gardner, nor is a failure to reach a 600lb squat ever going to be the reason you can't get off the shitter when you're 80.

He preaches a philosophy that, while usefule for novice strength trainees and/or those who are simply obsessed with strength above all else and/or a very small fraction of sports, is not useful to the entire general population, and can in fact be harmful. Chasing a 600lb squat and BMI of 40, does fuckall to improve performance or quality of life for the overwhelming majority of people.

3. Rip frequently tries to act knowledgeable about things outside of strength training. What's not to get?

4. You don't beleive in the scientific method. Got it.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

1. I don't care enough to waste my time looking up clips where he shits on mini,it's work. They're out there.

2. If strength existed in a vacuum, it would never be a negative attribute. When it starts to adversely affect your endurance, speed, mobility, morbidity, and longevity, it can be negative. Rip clearly follows a "strength above all else" philosophy, and his advice is almost always to do gain weight and add weight to bar, regardless of the level of the trained. Going from a 500lb squat to a 600lb squat isnt going to make someone a better tennis player, boxer, basketball player, electrician, bricklayer, gardner, nor is a failure to reach a

except he never said any of that