Where do you place Joseph Benavidez on the all time greats list?

Do you really value a guy who won a belt one time over the guy who was the second best fighter for 8 years right under a top 5 P4P GOAT? IMO he's a greater fighter than Sean Strickland, Luke Rockhold, Michael Bisping, or anyone on that level.

When I made this thread I was thinking of DC, who literally never would have been a UFC champion if Jones wasnt a fuck up. And now he's considered the second greatest LHW and a top 10 GOAT. Solely because of Jones getting suspended. Sometimes winning a title is about being in the right time at the right place. Benavidez is basically DC if the greatest fighter in his division wasn't a fuckup.

I never said I rank all of those guys above him. Winning a title isn’t the only metric, but it is a big metric. I’d rank him above lots of champs, but anyone he’s even remotely close with that’s actually won a title I’d place over him.

When we’re comparing Michael Jordan and Lebron James, one of the biggest factors is MJ was 6-0 in NBA finals and LBJ is 4-6.
 
Where do i rank him in the Greats list?
Outside.
 
He never won a title his entire career and no one talks about his legacy. But from 2006 to 2018 he only lost to two fighters. Flyweight GOAT DJ and arguable bantamweight GOAT Cruz. From his split decision loss to Dom in 2010 to his split decision loss to Sergio Pettis in 2018 he was considered the second best fighter in his division, bantamweight initially and then flyweight. He gave DJ hell in their first fight too. How do you rank a guy like that who never became champ solely because his prime coincided with a top 5 all time great?l
Joe Olivi was pretty good but nowhere near an all time anything.

But according to his wife, he is one of the finest people she has ever met.

Yet, his association with the tools of team Alpha Dudes makes me think he thinks too highly of himself…

Therefore, I leave the following for your enjoyment….

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WEC 42 was such a crazy event.

Everyone thought Benavidez was beating Cruz, and everyone thought Torres was going to remain champ forever.

Ended up being the end of Torres' reign, the start of Cruz' incredible run, and a constant question of wtf happened to Brian Bowles.
Wtf did happen to Brian Bowles?
 
Gotta feel for a lot of the Alpha Midget guys.

Benavidez was the clear #2 for years behind Mighty Mouse and beat everybody else but couldn't get past the champ.

Mendes was the clear #2 for years behind Aldo and beat everybody else but couldn't get past the champ.

Faber was the clear #2 for years behind Cruz and beat everybody else but couldn't get past the champ.
Good points all, and I agree. I think it has a lot to do with how shallow the division(s) was back then. There were some great guys at the very, very top, but if you couldn't beat them, you were beating lots of very low-name-value fighters over and over, and then losing whenever you were in the spotlight.

I will say that Faber was definitely popular and had great PR, so I'd say he's remembered much more fondly than Joseph, who had a much for stellar career, especially for a particular (long) stretch.
 
He's definitely on the short list of guys who never held a belt. But the all-time GOAT list? Maybe he cracks the top 100. I'm very uncertain of that, I'm just trying to be generous.
 
Do you really value a guy who won a belt one time over the guy who was the second best fighter for 8 years right under a top 5 P4P GOAT? IMO he's a greater fighter than Sean Strickland, Luke Rockhold, Michael Bisping, or anyone on that level.

When I made this thread I was thinking of DC, who literally never would have been a UFC champion if Jones wasnt a fuck up. And now he's considered the second greatest LHW and a top 10 GOAT. Solely because of Jones getting suspended. Sometimes winning a title is about being in the right time at the right place. Benavidez is basically DC if the greatest fighter in his division wasn't a fuckup.
DC was also HW champion...he moved down to LHW because his training partner was already a top HW, he is above the "one time champions" crowd.
 
But he wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to fight for the HW title without being LHW champ while Jones was suspended.
Total and absolute speculation. He was top tier HW, had won HW straps and Grand Prixs in basically every other organization he fought in. Had he not gone down to LHW because of Cain (iirc) he would've been in the HW title picture much earlier.
 
He's definitely on the short list of guys who never held a belt. But the all-time GOAT list? Maybe he cracks the top 100. I'm very uncertain of that, I'm just trying to be generous.

{<huh}

Top 100? So you think he's below Bisping? Because I think that's insane. Bisping was a career gatekeeper who got a title shot on late notice and managed to KO a one time champion who had poor striking defense and never accomplished anything afterwards. Then he defended against a guy outside the top 10 and then lost his title to a welterweight.

Let's be completely honest about Bisping's career. He never cracked the top 5 until he got slotted in for a late replacement title fight. And what he did was spectacular on that night. But it was a single performance. Then he defended his title against a 46 year old who wasnt in the top 10, then lost his belt.

When I compare the two of them, Bisping had everything go his way and Benavidez had nothing go his way. Benavidez is easily the better fighter. 8 straight years as the second best fighter in his division. That tells me if DJ didn't exist, Benavidez would be the flyweight GOAT.
 
{<huh}

Top 100? So you think he's below Bisping? Because I think that's insane. Bisping was a career gatekeeper who got a title shot on late notice and managed to KO a one time champion who had poor striking defense and never accomplished anything afterwards. Then he defended against a guy outside the top 10 and then lost his title to a welterweight.

Let's be completely honest about Bisping's career. He never cracked the top 5 until he got slotted in for a late replacement title fight. And what he did was spectacular on that night. But it was a single performance. Then he defended his title against a 46 year old who wasnt in the top 10, then lost his belt.

When I compare the two of them, Bisping had everything go his way and Benavidez had nothing go his way. Benavidez is easily the better fighter. 8 straight years as the second best fighter in his division. That tells me if DJ didn't exist, Benavidez would be the flyweight GOAT.
I'm honestly not sure I'd have Bisping in my top 100. I'd probably have Benavidez and Bisping in a similar range on my all-time list I've just never really thought about it this deep into the list.
 
Total and absolute speculation. He was top tier HW, had won HW straps and Grand Prixs in basically every other organization he fought in. Had he not gone down to LHW because of Cain (iirc) he would've been in the HW title picture much earlier.
Sure, if Cain didn't exist he would be in the title picture at heavyweight. But the reality is he didn't fight any of the top contenders when he was originally at heavyweight. We don't know how those fights would have gone. But if DJ didn't exist we know for a fact Benavidez would have been champion and likely for a very long time

Also let's be honest, DC eyepoked Stipe right before knocking him out in his greatest accomplishment at HW.
 
I'm honestly not sure I'd have Bisping in my top 100. I'd probably have Benavidez and Bisping in a similar range on my all-time list I've just never really thought about it this deep into the list.
I'm trying to be fair to you but Benavidez would literally be at least the flyweight GOAT if DJ didn't exist and DJ is on the all time great list. He's also the only fighter to have a razor close fight with prime Cruz. The idea what he would be outside the top 100 is absolutely ludicrous. You're going to have to provide a top 100 list because your posts sound incredibly stupid.
 
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