Where does Conor rank on all time goat lists?
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#1 obiviously his made more money than the others combined.
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{<Mcgoat}{<Mcgoat}{<Mcgoat}{<Mcgoat}
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Yeah that is 1000% untrue.
Conor McGregor's resume' >>> Weidman, Cain, Woodley, Holloway, probably (definitely but less so) Hendo and Shogun, and arguably BJ's but I'd say no I guess on that.
Stipe is a bit of a stretch too, and DC isn't that far ahead but is definitely ahead. Mighty Mouse is above but fought shit competition arguably, and half the guys you mentioned aren't from this decade anyway btw.
Israel has 7 UFC fights total, has fought 2 actually good fighters (3 if we count Brunson) and has 0 title defenses. No.
Tony's resume'? No. Khabib? close and arguable, but McGregor has much better wins and accolades. Usman? No.
GSP, SIlva, Aldo, Fedor, Hendo, Shogun, BJ are all not from this decade btw, their primes and starts of championship runs are from last decade, in the 2000s.
The fact of the matter is McGregor dethroned the FW GOAT - Aldo - who many considered a top 3-5 all-timer at that point, and he went undefeated at FW and beat Mendes a legit elite wrestler, and other names like Holloway and Porier even if they weren't in their primes or best forms. He then won the LW title and destroyed the LW champion Eddie Alvarez, and has won at WW* against two top 10 caliber opponents in Cerrone and Diaz. He fought the boxing GOAT in boxing too in between.
You say you're a McGregor fanboy but you think Max fucking Holloway has a better claim to GOAT status? Why? Cain, Weidman, Izzy, Tony? Just a yikes from me. All those guys are clearly inferior. Cain broke down, Tony has never even won a real belt or beat elite competition arguably, Weidman beat Silva twice and a deflated Belfort and then fell off hard, Izzy has done little. McGregor has only lost to Khabib and Diaz two weight classes above his original, which he avenged. Two belts same time, big names on the resume'. It's facts.
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Maybe top 20 of all time, I have to give him props for the growth he brought to the sport although irrelevant in a GOAT discussion, he is a Champ/Champ has won fights in 3 divisions, he is accomplished but there are so many guys that if they were the same weight would beat him. I believe a lot of the former champs could beat him and some of the legend guys, GSP, Silva, JJ, MM, Fedor, Marco Ruas, Shogun, Dan Herderson, Cormier, Miocic, Nogeira, Adesanya but Conor has always surprised me, he is better than most people give him credit for but not as good as the fanatics think he is.
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He's not any better than Nate Diaz.
Where is Nate ranked on your g.o.a.t list?
Where is Nate ranked on your g.o.a.t list?
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GOAT list:
1. Jones*
2. GSP
3. Silva*
4. Aldo*
5. Fedor
6. Cruz
7. DC
8. Mighty Mouse (competition weak, but arguably higher)
9. B.J. Penn
10. Stipe Miocic (may be high via recency bias)
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This is the cut-off. Basically it's the point where there is a choice to be made. It's the argument for McGregor / Khabib types, them specifically, over the old-guard that used to be great but compared to modern MMA would get destroyed, the point where you argue old vs new and it's difficult.
So do you rank Hughes, Couture, Liddell, Shogun, Rampage, Belfort types higher than McGregor or lower? Personally I say lower after a few, so:
11. Matt Hughes
12. Conor McGregor
13. Randy Couture
14. Khabib (as of now, can fluctuate greatly)
15. Shogun/Liddell/Franklin/Rampage/Belfort/Frankie Edgar/Cain/Werdum, etc...whatever.
I think this list is pretty fair, not sure if I just blatantly missed anyone but that's my visual argument of why McGregor is borderline top 10-15 all-time right now. His resume' is stellar, it cannot be denied. He has one unavenged loss in the UFC (a weight division higher than his original), he held two belts in two divisions simultaneously, he KO'd a top 5 all-timer at FW, and the antics / Mayweather stuff only add to the legacy imo.
1. Jones*
2. GSP
3. Silva*
4. Aldo*
5. Fedor
6. Cruz
7. DC
8. Mighty Mouse (competition weak, but arguably higher)
9. B.J. Penn
10. Stipe Miocic (may be high via recency bias)
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This is the cut-off. Basically it's the point where there is a choice to be made. It's the argument for McGregor / Khabib types, them specifically, over the old-guard that used to be great but compared to modern MMA would get destroyed, the point where you argue old vs new and it's difficult.
So do you rank Hughes, Couture, Liddell, Shogun, Rampage, Belfort types higher than McGregor or lower? Personally I say lower after a few, so:
11. Matt Hughes
12. Conor McGregor
13. Randy Couture
14. Khabib (as of now, can fluctuate greatly)
15. Shogun/Liddell/Franklin/Rampage/Belfort/Frankie Edgar/Cain/Werdum, etc...whatever.
I think this list is pretty fair, not sure if I just blatantly missed anyone but that's my visual argument of why McGregor is borderline top 10-15 all-time right now. His resume' is stellar, it cannot be denied. He has one unavenged loss in the UFC (a weight division higher than his original), he held two belts in two divisions simultaneously, he KO'd a top 5 all-timer at FW, and the antics / Mayweather stuff only add to the legacy imo.
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If Conor gets several title defenses. Then I have no problem including him.
D
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TOP 5 FW GOAT, for sure
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But you're saying guys with no UFC titles at all or minimal defenses are better. Going up weight classes, and especially winning two belts in different divisions has to count for a lot, in my book at least.
Holloway - 3 title defenses, 5 losses in UFC, 2 recent losses and lost belt. Lost to McGregor and Porier x2
Weidman - 3 title defenses, has lost 5/6 past fights since losing belt.
Hendo - Won Pride WW and MW championship, won Strikeforce LHW belt. But lost Strikeforce MW title fight and every LHW and MW UFC title fight, no UFC belt. 0 title defenses btw
Shogun - 0 title defenses, won UFC belt off Machida (close first fight loss too), lost to Jones immediately. Pride MW tourney winner. Lost tons of fights
Cain - 2 title defenses, won the HW belt twice but only defended it twice. Broke down. Shell of himself, lost 2/3 past fights and barely fights / probably done.
B.J. Penn - 3 title defenses. Won the WW title off Hughes so was the first to win two titles really I think, fought at WW against GSP twice and Hughes 2-3 times, vacated belt at a point, could have had more title defenses probably. Career spiraled out of control and he's lost a ton of fights after the Edgar close fights, Hughes win, and Fitch draw. (I ranked him ahead of McGregor anyway obv)
Woodley - 3 title defenses, also "retained" belt on a draw and also lost Strikeforce title fight to Marquardt by being brutally KO'd.
So yeah while I think title defenses matter, I think going up and winning a belt in another division >>>>>>. Quite frankly. I'd rather see Jon Jones win a HW title for his legacy, than defend the belt 3 more times, even 5 more times...but that's a specific case at the same time.
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#1 at being greatest of all at talking
#300 at being greatest of all time
#300 at being greatest of all time
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Meh...
Anderson Silva defended his belt like 10 times, but when he stepped up to LHW he still had to go through contenders like Forrest, Bonnar and whatnot to get to the title shot, and also had to keep defending his belt MW in the meantime...
Conor on the other hand, defended 0 times, gets instant title shot, gets choked out by Nate Diaz, still gets another title shot...
Huge difference there in UFCs politics towards fighters.
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Uh yes, do you have Weidman higher than Silva? Serra higher than GSP? What about Bigfoot Silva higher than Fedor?
Just because someone beats someone doesn't mean they are the better fighter, or more specifically in this case have the better legacy.
I do think Khabib is the "better fighter" and is just stylistically a dominant matchup vs McGregor who is a euro-striking background guy who recently started going heavy into wrestling/grappling. But at the same time, and while I said specifically that is was close, I think it's very clear McGregor has the better resume', without question.
1. Does Mighty Mouse get penalized for losing to Cruz? Do we penalize Mighty Mouse for not fighting at 135 or 145? Why not? Because essentially you are doing that to McGregor unfairly.
2. Let's compare resume's:
Khabib: Best win is easily McGregor. His best wins are over McGregor, Porier, Barboza, RDA (prior to his run though and arguably juicing), and his next best is Michael Johnson. He is undefeated but arguably lost to Tibau, at minimum it was very close and feasibly could have been scored for Tibau. Has finished a lot lately but decision'd quite a bit too. Only has fought at LW. Won belt off Al Iaquinta, and has defended twice (against two terrible wrestlers, McGregor and Porier).
vs
McGregor: Best wins: Aldo, Alvarez, Mendes. Then Holloway and Porier as names but were in different points in career, Porier is more legit of the two but also beat Holloway on torn ACL. Diaz and Cerrone also names to be used...better than Michael Johnson name value, or similar value. Won FW belt of FW GOAT, a top 3-5 all-time GOAT at time in Aldo, undefeated at FW. Leaves FW and immediately fights at 170 against a LW/WW tweener, splitting 1-1. Beats LW champion, dominant fashion. Gains two division belts at same time, 1st in UFC history. Fights Floyd Mayweather in boxing, comes off ~2 year layoff and is beaten in semi-dominant fashion / finish by Khabib, 1+ year layoff comes back and destroys Cerrone formerly a top 5 LW (ranked 4 against Gaethje) but is arguably an easy match-up. Still, it was at 170 and Cerrone was a legit WW before.
So yes I think McGregor is higher. If Khabib has a string of title defenses and remains undefeated he can surpass him, if he beats him twice especially. If they make 165 and Khabib competes up there and wins a belt, sure thing. But as of right now McGregor's resume' don't lie. 2 belts, undefeated at FW, dethrones an all-timer, wins LW belt legit, and has wins at 170 over guys who are tweeners sure, but also have legit fought at WW and been top 10-ish probably.
Khabib simply has not faced much great competition yet. Ferguson is a great win for him if he beats him...if the fight actually happens.
