Why is boxing still producing bigger stars than MMA?

Jake Paul is probably the top 3 most famous “boxers” in the world. Also, Boxing has been dead since Pac-Man and Floyd left.

It has a cancerous culture of stat padding too which doesn’t help.
 
Wreckless said:
The amount of people on this planet who can become great at MMA is much smaller than boxing.

Everyone and their mother can train to become a boxer. MMA takes years to learn. Perfect example is Jake Paul and all those Youtube boxers.

Not to mention a lot of these boxers with 30-0 records have a padded record with a bunch of bums.

I'm not ready to say boxing has more stars, but even if it does, we're just talking about a few people. As a sport, MMA is crushing boxing and has been for quite a while. No one even takes boxing seriously these days.
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Disagree. I’ll get flak here but fuck it. Boxing has become a joke of a sport now so I can’t blame you. But I’d argue in order to truly become great in it, you have to be out of this world. There isn’t nearly as much hype in it as in the past, Terrence Crawford is probably the best boxer out there right now and most people don’t even know he exists.

MMA is more complex but it’s easier to shield your deficiencies and you don’t have to be proficient in every attribute, you can get by having a god awful gas tank (source:khamzat and most of hw division). Ben askren and poatan finding success should tell you that you don’t have to mix it all. whereas in the boxing if you don’t have hands, cardio or speed, you are cooked…

So yeah, I’m not saying really that it’s harder to be good or bad in boxing. I’m just saying that mma is obviously less discriminating in that people can adapt and obviously mix things in a style that benefits them.
 
The Bloody Nine said:
About as well as he'd do stepping in against a pro boxer of similar standing to Gall. What's your point?
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The point is boxing is more accessible. That's why it has more stars. You don't see Youtubers with a huge following signing up for MMA fights. And you don't see boxers lining up to fight in MMA either.
 
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Current boxers are pretty unpopular. I could make the amount of current boxers that I know on both my hands and that’s it. Ryan Garcia and Devin Haney had to go balls to wall in terms of drama to get publicity.
 
moreorless87 said:
I tend to think its a deliberate choice by the UFC though, to try and make promotion of fighters as "in house" as possible because this diminishes fighters value when not fighting for them.

I would say a big issue as well is that whilst MMA has grown in profitability strongly since the UFC's rise in the late 00's most of the money from that has gone into the UFC's pockets meaning that investment in talent has been far less than in other sports of a similar size.

Beyond the profits it gives the UFC honestly I wouldnt be supprised if this was also a tactic about control, the UFC wants enough talent to be able to run things in a certain way and no more.
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Oh yea for sure, I agree it's 100% deliberate and by design.

Conor was running his mouth about how much he was making the company, and how he was the reason they sold for so much. They shut that shit down and started hiding the PPV numbers so now the fighters are even more powerless smh. The fighters can't even publicly talk about the numbers, how long before the UFC strait up lies about PPV sales and it doesn't add up with what the fighters are saying?

Sometimes you can micro-manage to a fault, the UFC is lucky that boxing is such a shit show right now. The UFC is going to be forced to change at some point. Conor is old, Jones is old, Adesanya is about to turn 35, Sean O'malley is turning 30 this year (Possibly the only dude they successfully promoted). Ronda retired 8 years ago and no woman since has even scratched the surface of the money Ronda was generating. The UFC is profiting like crazy, but the long-term outlook is grim. Treating the fighters better seems like the no-brainer long term play, but they've been successful for so long they must really think another star is going to walk in through the door.


The time from UFC 200 to UFC 300 was EIGHT YEARS, and that was in an era where we had many more PPV cards. How many more years until we get UFC 400??


Justin Gaethje's and Max Holloways don't grow on trees, these guys get post-fight bonuses almost every single fight. The UFC won't be able to replace even the 2nd tier stars in the coming years. If the UFC renegotiates with ESPN, I have zero doubt that the days of huge PPV events will be over. They'll have to bring Conor out of retirement to reach the 1 million mark again.


Rampage vs Rashad did 1 million PPV
Anderson vs Chael II did 925k
GSP vs Diaz did 950k

One thing I realized about these fights is that it really didn't matter who won them. Chael, Rampage, and Diaz would've slotted in and become bigger than they already were. The UFC today blatantly tries to artificially create stars because this could be the male championship lineup in a year:


- Aspinall
- Ankalaev
- DDP
- Leon
- Islam
- Ilia
- Merab
- Pantoja

Great fighters, but outside of serious fans who's really tuning in? Everyone there isn't drawing big numbers. This is why champions are sitting on the sidelines, and desperately trying to fight guys outside their divisions for paydays. Maybe I'm being too cynical, and personally I still enjoy the fights either way. But the current UFC formula leaves a lot to be desired.

Remember when the MW division was stacked with personalities and the guys were decently promoted?

- Weidman
- Silva
- Belfort
- Rockhold
- Lyoto
- Wand
- Henderson
- Brian Stann
- Chris Leben
- Mousasi
- Bisping
- Uriah Hall
- Yoel
- Tim kennedy
- Chael Sonnen
- Okami
- Bisping
- Munoz
- Jacare

Even Tim Boetsch was more fun and interesting than a lot of the current division. Maybe it's just revisionist history for me, but back then the divisions had so much more life and personality in them. No disrespect to Marvin Vettori or Jared Cannonier, but there's a reason people care more about someone like Kevin Holland even tho he's a far lesser fighter.

​

Also I have no life apparently, because this post is too damn long :eek:
 
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No idea why. Tyson Fury is a boring tub of shit, and Garcia/Tank weight 130 lbs, so maybe the stats are inflated by the media. I hate to agree with Dana, but every big boxing event seems like a going out of business sale.
 
HuskySamoan said:
That's changing rapidly before our eyes in MMA, Pantoja, Omalley, Topuria, Islam, Dricus and Aspinall all started super young. Leon at 18-19 was old, Pereira was late for kickboxing and MMA. And I can think of several boxers who started late that are currently champions.

That said, I agree with your point, @Wreckless is either trolling or insane.
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Which point am I trolling or insane about?

We're talking about 2 different things here. Being a star and being a championship level boxer is not the same. You don't need to be an elite boxer to be a star, you just need to be decent. Anyone with a big following can put up a boxing fight, it's a total clown show.

In MMA you have to be good to be a star.

Not sure how you can deny boxing as being an easier entry point than MMA when in MMA you got a bunch of different disciplines you have to learn.
 
Wreckless said:
The point is boxing is more accessible. That's why it has more stars. You don't see Youtubers with a huge following signing up for MMA fights. And you don't see boxers lining up to fight in MMA either.
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Why would they want to? It's less money.

Now, female boxers are lining up to try MMA. Shields, Marshall, etc. Why? Because there's more money in female MMA.

Your original point is nonsense.
 
Boxing had a good fight on a weekend UFC didn't.

It's ok.

Both sports can coexist.

Glory kickboxing and BKFC are cool too.


BKFC has a good card coming up this Saturday 4/27

Mike Perry is fighting Thiago Alves

Lorenzo Hunt is trying to become 1st three weight class BKFC champ.

PLUS Ben Rothwell vs Todd Duffee
BKFC_KnuckleMania_IV_Top_3_1920x1080.jpg

Glory had a solid card a few weeks ago with their HW grand prix one night tournament.

@BoxerMaurits does a great job of letting folks know when there are good glory cards to watch.
 
Gamer007 said:
Oh yea for sure, I agree it's 100% deliberate and by design.

Conor was running his mouth about how much he was making the company, and how he was the reason they sold for so much. They shut that shit down and started hiding the PPV numbers so now the fighters are even more powerless smh. The fighters can't even publicly talk about the numbers, how long before the UFC strait up lies about PPV sales and it doesn't add up with what the fighters are saying?

Sometimes you can micro-manage to a fault, the UFC is lucky that boxing is such a shit show right now. The UFC is going to be forced to change at some point. Conor is old, Jones is old, Adesanya is about to turn 35, Sean O'malley is turning 30 this year (Possibly the only dude they successfully promoted). Ronda retired 8 years ago and no woman since has even scratched the surface of the money Ronda was generating. The UFC is profiting like crazy, but the long-term outlook is grim. Treating the fighters better seems like the no-brainer long term play, but they've been successful for so long they must really think another star is going to walk in through the door.


The time from UFC 200 to UFC 300 was EIGHT YEARS, and that was in an era where we had many more PPV cards. How many more years until we get UFC 400??


Justin Gaethje's and Max Holloways don't grow on trees, these guys get post-fight bonuses almost every single fight. The UFC won't be able to replace even the 2nd tier stars in the coming years. If the UFC renegotiates with ESPN, I have zero doubt that the days of huge PPV events will be over. They'll have to bring Conor out of retirement to reach the 1 million mark again.


Rampage vs Rashad did 1 million PPV
Anderson vs Chael II did 925k
GSP vs Diaz did 950k

One thing I realized about these fights is that it really didn't matter who won them. Chael, Rampage, and Diaz would've slotted in and become bigger than they already were. The UFC today blatantly tries to artificially create stars because this could be the male championship lineup in a year:


- Aspinall
- Ankalaev
- DDP
- Leon
- Islam
- Ilia
- Merab
- Pantoja

Great fighters, but outside of serious fans who's really tuning in? Everyone there isn't drawing big numbers. This is why champions are sitting on the sidelines, and desperately trying to fight guys outside their divisions for paydays. Maybe I'm being too cynical, and personally I still enjoy the fights either way. But the current UFC formula leaves a lot to be desired.

Remember when the MW division was stacked with personalities and the guys were decently promoted?

- Weidman
- Silva
- Belfort
- Rockhold
- Lyoto
- Wand
- Henderson
- Brian Stann
- Chris Leben
- Mousasi
- Bisping
- Uriah Hall
- Yoel
- Tim kennedy
- Chael Sonnen
- Okami
- Bisping
- Munoz
- Jacare

Even Tim Boetsch was more fun and interesting than a lot of the current division. Maybe it's just revisionist history for me, but back then the divisions had so much more life and personality in them. No disrespect to Marvin Vettori or Jared Cannonier, but there's a reason people care more about someone like Kevin Holland even tho he's a far lesser fighter.
Also I have no life apparently, because this post is too damn long :eek:
Click to expand...
I think a significant issue is that whilst the UFC has been dominant as a promoter for many years its been able to depend on a talent base brought though by other promoters who have slowly declined or been bought out.

Its only quite recently that its having to survive more on the talent base it can create itself(well with smaller local promoters but fewer other big promoters), even now I think the upper divisions still benefit a bit from Rizins earlier period as a higher level promoter.
 
Boxing happens to have more star power at this moment in time but if we look at at the overall situation through the last 15 years or so I wouldnt say theres really anything in it.
 
boxing is arguably the most iconic sport ever. it produced the worlds most famous sportstars until the 80/90s. MMA will never overtake boxing. thats just how it is.
 
Ares Black said:
There are 8 billion people in the world. That means that about 0.15% of the population follows him on Instagram. And approximately 99.85% of the population does not. The average person has never heard of him.


Why does Ryan Garcia have a lot of Instagram followers? He's successful, good-looking, and he has Mexican heritage. Boxing is huge in Mexico.


UFC is big business, but it's still ultimately a niche sport, and their business strategy is promoting the UFC brand rather than individual fighters.

The boxing business model is different, with a bunch of rival promoters each trying to create breakout stars.

TLDR; The UFC doesn't give a shit about creating stars. The brand is what matters.

Boxing needs to make stars to generate interest. No one tunes in to watch a random boxing match. Lots of people watch UFC without particularly caring who is fighting.
Click to expand...

100%

Ryan Garcia is famous in Mexico.

Most Americans have no fucking clue who he is.
 
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