Why Steve Vai and other "great" guitarists are so boring?

Alex

Alex

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I appreciate the skill of Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, etc... They're quite impressive to watch, but gosh, their music is just so boring to listen to. Even baby songs have often a more catchy tune than stuff they play.
Is this because I'm a music imbecile that knows nothing about music and just can't grasp their godly music?
Or is it cause their "catchy tune" talent is non-existent?

It blows my mind how somebody can be that good on an instrument, yet compose such shitty music.
Thoughts?
 
There's no point in arguing taste and personal preference but I think Vai is a weird example since his albums aren't mere shredfests and actually have a lot of compositional merit. I really dig his first two albums, Flex-able and Passion & Warfare. His work with the DLR band is also ace in my opinion. His contribution to Whitesnake isn't universally loved but I dig it.

A lot of folks lump all guitar virtuoso albums in one category, based on the Yngwie Malmsteen principle of playing every note possible, all the time and at high velocity (that in itsself in a broad generalistion on my part) but there is actually a lot of nuance and diveristy to be found. One example is John 5 and his bluegrass influences in his solo records.
 





If you can't grasp the groove of these songs you may be deaf.
 
BossRootin said:





If you can't grasp the groove of these songs you may be deaf.
Click to expand...

Tender Surrender & Bad Horsie are literally the only songs I can listen to, they're the exception.
The 2 Satriani songs you posted were boring af though.
And other than these 2 songs from Steve Vai, I couldn't find anything I could enjoy listening too.
 
Alex said:
Tender Surrender & Bad Horsie are literally the only songs I can listen to, they're the exception.
The 2 Satriani songs you posted were boring af though.
And other than these 2 songs from Steve Vai, I couldn't find anything I could enjoy listening too.
Click to expand...

I like the melody and upbeat tempo of this one.

 
Been playing for a couple decades and while I respect and appreciate Vai and Satriani and have even bought their stuff, I’ve never really liked them or learned a lick of theirs. I am however a fan of shred - Eddie, Friedman, Petrucci etc

I tend to admire the riff-writers the most.

On the other end of the spectrum I think Hendrix is a terrible player and is about as overrated as it gets. So I don’t fit in well in very many guitar normie communities.
 
I mostly agree. A few possible reasons why:

1. A lot of it sounds the same, unless you are also a guitarist who plays that kinda stuff yourself. Especially for the super fast shreddy parts, unless you’re heavily involved in the genre in some way you can’t really appreciate the nuances. So for most people it’s a case of, if you’ve heard 1 or 2 songs you’ve basically heard them all.

2. Generally speaking, their guitar parts aren’t “essential” to the overall song. Even though super technical and impressive, the song will still resemble a song without their parts. If you take it away you still have the drums playing a solid rhythm, with the bass and rhythm guitar chugging along with a simple groove. The thing is, these other instruments are often playing pretty generic stuff because they’re supposed to be the “support” instruments for the guitar hero. So a lot of this kinda music is akin to a big colorful shiny cherry on top of fairly bland vanilla ice cream.

3. They are rhythmically uninspired. Rhythm is often overlooked in favor of melodic/harmonic/technical complexity. It’s cool that you can speedpick some exotic modes and scale patterns at 1000bpm but ultimately if you can’t make people bop their heads and groove with your playing it’s just not going to feel as “musical”. The more shreddy it is the more it becomes like an athletic performance instead of a musical performance.
 
There are tons and tons of extremely skilled players who aren’t good composers. Generally they become studio musicians of play in an orchestra or whatever.
 
Because being able to play Chopin doesn’t mean you could compose like him.
 
Blue_Lou said:
I mostly agree. A few possible reasons why:

1. A lot of it sounds the same, unless you are also a guitarist who plays that kinda stuff yourself. Especially for the super fast shreddy parts, unless you’re heavily involved in the genre in some way you can’t really appreciate the nuances. So for most people it’s a case of, if you’ve heard 1 or 2 songs you’ve basically heard them all.

2. Generally speaking, their guitar parts aren’t “essential” to the overall song. Even though super technical and impressive, the song will still resemble a song without their parts. If you take it away you still have the drums playing a solid rhythm, with the bass and rhythm guitar chugging along with a simple groove. The thing is, these other instruments are often playing pretty generic stuff because they’re supposed to be the “support” instruments for the guitar hero. So a lot of this kinda music is akin to a big colorful shiny cherry on top of fairly bland vanilla ice cream.

3. They are rhythmically uninspired. Rhythm is often overlooked in favor of melodic/harmonic/technical complexity. It’s cool that you can speedpick some exotic modes and scale patterns at 1000bpm but ultimately if you can’t make people bop their heads and groove with your playing it’s just not going to feel as “musical”. The more shreddy it is the more it becomes like an athletic performance instead of a musical performance.
Click to expand...
Well said
 
It's because what's catchy and fun is often different than what's technically complex.

Also the guitar (like most instruments) functions best as a team player. Isolating it can make the overall experience less enjoyable. Just like most MMA fans don't enjoys wrestling tournaments as much as fight cards.
 
I used to love Yngwie Malmsteen as a teenager, his first few albums were mint.

But... full on shred is pretty boring to me nowadays.

I'd rather listen to the blues.

I fail to see how Passion and Warfare by Vai is boring though?

You just don't like technical guitar, which is fine, it's not for everyone.
 
Alex said:
I appreciate the skill of Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, etc... They're quite impressive to watch, but gosh, their music is just so boring to listen to. Even baby songs have often a more catchy tune than stuff they play.
Is this because I'm a music imbecile that knows nothing about music and just can't grasp their godly music?
Or is it cause their "catchy tune" talent is non-existent?

It blows my mind how somebody can be that good on an instrument, yet compose such shitty music.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Have you listened to Devin Townsend ? VAI hired him for ''Sex & Religion" (average album) but the solo carreer of Townsend is absolutely mind-blowing (also had a band called Strapping Young Lad)
 
I'm 32 and have played guitar since I'm 13. Got my first electric guitar at 16 and until 19/20 I played like a maniac. I still can play but I would need some practice and condition to be able to shred like those days.

Honestly I like Vai and Satriani much more than many other guitarists. But there are limitations to instrumental music based on a lead guitar.
That is why I get bored after 4/5 songs in these days.

I found growing up that people that enjoy that kind of music are usually musicians themselves. And there is nothing wrong with that.


I think for example that Yngwie Malmsteen sucks even from a technical standpoint (he is sooo basic) and most guitarist can play his songs blindfolded.
He has some good music (Arpeggios from Hell, I am a Viking, Black Star, etc) but his need of playing fast and adding notes wherever they fit is annoying.


BTW TS... do you find any guitarist that you enjoy? I think that Paul Gilbert is one of those guys that got it right:




Damn.. this is brilliant:
 
Poids Moyen said:
Have you listened to Devin Townsend ? VAI hired him for ''Sex & Religion" (average album) but the solo carreer of Townsend is absolutely mind-blowing (also had a band called Strapping Young Lad)
Click to expand...
FUCK YEAH!


I love Devin Townsend. His vocals are just as good as his guitar playing. One of my top 5 musicians ever.

Also folks who enjoy Satriani, Vai, and Gilbert will love Earthless. A mostly instrumental psychedelic rock band from San Diego, California consisting of guitarist Isaiah Mitchell, bassist Mike Eginton and drummer Mario Rubalcaba.

I'm a huge fan of theirs and own all their material on vinyl.
 
Personally, I define a "great" by the intersection between technical skill and compositional skill. Are you familiar with Django Reinhardt, Tommy Emmanuel, Chet Atkins or Francesco Buzzurro? I would say they are great representations of people fusing their skill with their art on a high level, rather than just using the composition to showcase their skill, which seems to be what you take issue with regarding the music of Steve Vai and Joe Satriani. If you haven't heard of the musicians above, I hope you enjoy :D
 
Last edited:
Satanical Eve said:
FUCK YEAH!


I love Devin Townsend. His vocals are just as good as his guitar playing. One of my top 5 musicians ever.

Also folks who enjoy Satriani, Vai, and Gilbert will love Earthless. A mostly instrumental psychedelic rock band from San Diego, California consisting of guitarist Isaiah Mitchell, bassist Mike Eginton and drummer Mario Rubalcaba.

I'm a huge fan of theirs and own all their material on vinyl.
Click to expand...


I cannot like your comment because I got a stupid Double Yellow Card for a harmless post
 
Poids Moyen said:
I cannot like your comment because I got a stupid Double Yellow Card for a harmless post
Click to expand...
Hey I'll like your post as a thanks for letting me know you cannot like my post cause of your yellow.
 
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