Workout Weight vs. ORM

[SummerStriker]

I was curious if y'all have a feeling about what weight you like to work out at vs. how much you could put up.

Here is a men's health article which is perfectly in line with middling gym bro personal trainer speak.

If you’re goal is strength and power, for example, you want to lift in the 2 to 6 rep range, which is typically 95 to 85 percent of your 1RM. For hypertrophy (8 to 12 reps per set), your sweet spot is 80 to 67 percent of your 1RM. And if you want to target your endurance-oriented type I fibers, load up with no more than 65 percent of your 1RM so you can bang out at least 15 reps per set.

--https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a31075907/one-rep-max/

Anyway, 67% of 300 is still over 200 pounds. It is not my experience that people can bang out 3x12, or even 3x10 at that kind of weight without very long rest periods.

In my case, if I warm up well, I can get 13-14 reps at 225 on bench. But that isn't how I workout, going for broke on a set. The last time I tried 3x10, I did it at 175 and my sets were more like 10, 9, 4. And I was probably resting well over a minute between sets.

I've never recovered that quickly between sets to do the kind of work I hear people say they do. Anecdotally, I used to workout alongside an older guy who would do multiple sets of 10 at 225 on bench press, but I'd personally seen him go up over 405 on bench. He was probably working out at 55% of his ORM.

It seems like people would have different talents based on body type and muscle fiber type. I think that I have a little more power than most people, but worse endurance, and longer arms making my sets significantly more work.

Do you think there is anything to worrying about the relationship of workout weight to ORM weight, or do you think people should just use whatever weight / rep range gives a good workout and what will be will be?

 

[vision1]

I'm not sure but it might be worrying.
If you can hit 13-14 reps at 225, there is no way your second set at 175 would only be 9 reps. 2-3 minutes is pretty common for rest periods.

 

[SummerStriker]

I'm not sure but it might be worrying.
If you can hit 13-14 reps at 225, there is no way your second set at 175 would only be 9 reps. 2-3 minutes is pretty common for rest periods.

I do 60s rests. If I'm waiting 3 minutes I'm doing sets of 5 at higher weight. I've never heard of people waiting 3 minutes on a set of 10.

 

[vision1]

I do 60s rests. If I'm waiting 3 minutes I'm doing sets of 5 at higher weight. I've never heard of people waiting 3 minutes on a set of 10.

Depends on the lift and the intensity.
A heavy set of 10 squats is pretty killer.
Benching 10 reps of 175 when your max is in the high 200's wouldn't be.

 

[SummerStriker]

Depends on the lift and the intensity.
A heavy set of 10 squats is pretty killer.
Benching 10 reps of 175 when your max is in the high 200's wouldn't be.

I'm not sure I follow your train of logic. It sounds like you're saying a 60s rest and a 180s rest would be the same at a 60% of ORM set.

 

[vision1]

I'm not sure I follow your train of logic. It sounds like you're saying a 60s rest and a 180s rest would be the same at a 60% of ORM set.

You said you've never heard of people resting 3 minutes after a set of 10.
I said it would depend on the lift and the intensity.
If you do a heavy full body lift for 10 reps you'll likely be resting 3 minutes.
If you're doing a light set of bench or something like curls, pushdowns, etc, you won't need to rest 3 minutes.
60 seconds is no common for rest periods. 90s + is much more common.

 

[Volador]

I was curious if y'all have a feeling about what weight you like to work out at vs. how much you could put up.

Here is a men's health article which is perfectly in line with middling gym bro personal trainer speak.

--https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a31075907/one-rep-max/

Anyway, 67% of 300 is still over 200 pounds. It is not my experience that people can bang out 3x12, or even 3x10 at that kind of weight without very long rest periods.

In my case, if I warm up well, I can get 13-14 reps at 225 on bench. But that isn't how I workout, going for broke on a set. The last time I tried 3x10, I did it at 175 and my sets were more like 10, 9, 4. And I was probably resting well over a minute between sets.

No, I'd say there's nothing to worry about, those percentages are there to help people choose a weight to start out, they're not hard and fast rules.

I've never recovered that quickly between sets to do the kind of work I hear people say they do. Anecdotally, I used to workout alongside an older guy who would do multiple sets of 10 at 225 on bench press, but I'd personally seen him go up over 405 on bench. He was probably working out at 55% of his ORM.

It seems like people would have different talents based on body type and muscle fiber type. I think that I have a little more power than most people, but worse endurance, and longer arms making my sets significantly more work.

Do you think there is anything to worrying about the relationship of workout weight to ORM weight, or do you think people should just use whatever weight / rep range gives a good workout and what will be will be?

Not sure I understand this post. Most of the time a 10RM is about 80% of your 1RM, obviously this varies individually. But yes, if your max is 300lbs it's very plausible that you can do 3x10-12 at 200, it's nothing out of the ordinary, although it may depend on how used you are to working at higher reps. Things like endurance and conditioning are trainable anyway.

I've never heard of people waiting 3 minutes on a set of 10.

This is a bit bizarre. Waiting 2-3 minutes is normal and nothing to be particularly shocked about, even when training for hypertrophy/higher reps. If your reps are dropping off from 10, to 9, and then to 4 using very submaximal weights, you might benefit from resting more than 60 seconds between the last two sets, or lowering the weight.

 

[Kforcer]

Not sure I understand this post. Most of the time a 10RM is about 80% of your 1RM, obviously this varies individually. But yes, if your max is 300lbs it's very plausible that you can do 3x10-12 at 200, it's nothing out of the ordinary, although it may depend on how used you are to working at higher reps. Things like endurance and conditioning are trainable anyway.

The relationship between heavy sets and high-rep sets is funny. Sometimes you smash one and not the other, sometimes its the inverse, etc. Like you said, endurance and conditioning come into it.

 

[Phlog]

On heavier stuff I'll wait until my HR reaches baseline again and that can 3min or 5min if I'm approaching 90% 1RM on a Deadlift.

I ensure I have enough rest to hit the rep range I'm going for, I never miss a rep in the last set because I'm over reaching. Last set I do AMRAP and expect to get 10-20% more.

My TM (training max) is 90% of my 1RM, I run all my lift calculations off my TM. There's no such thing as a 0RM AFAIK as a zero rep max would be infinite weight, because it's a weight you can do zero reps of.

I'm 45 and going heavy and I'm focused on strength and power, as such rest is key. I also got some DNA analysis and it showed my recovery period is longer than average, but I think that pertains to rest days rather than between sets.

If you're interested in the system I broadly follow it's the juggernaut 2.0 program. I think it is appropriate for intermediate to experienced lifters.

 

[nhbfan8080]

I do 60s rests. If I'm waiting 3 minutes I'm doing sets of 5 at higher weight. I've never heard of people waiting 3 minutes on a set of 10.

Thats way too short of a rest period unless you're training small muscles like forearms or fingers. 2-3 minutes rest period is about average for sets of 10 reps, you can do some stretches or accessory exercises in between.
Women are generally ok with shorter rest periods between sets but 60secs still sounds really short.

 

[Oblivian]

I'd be concerned something is off if you are struggling with 3 sets of 10 at 175 lbs and a set of 10 of 225 lbs is not a problem. I'm a weak bencher, and at the end of a bench workout a set of 10 close grip at 185 lbs is still pretty easy.

As others have mentioned, your rest periods are way too short. I lift at home, but I've been going to the YMCA lately as well. Everyone uses short rest periods there, so I almost feel a pressure to move quickly too since there is only one rack. I pretty much only work up to top sets there because I'd stick out like a sore thumb doing volume work at something like 5x5.

 

[Baby Hanma]

I was curious if y'all have a feeling about what weight you like to work out at vs. how much you could put up.

Here is a men's health article which is perfectly in line with middling gym bro personal trainer speak.

--https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a31075907/one-rep-max/

Anyway, 67% of 300 is still over 200 pounds. It is not my experience that people can bang out 3x12, or even 3x10 at that kind of weight without very long rest periods.

In my case, if I warm up well, I can get 13-14 reps at 225 on bench. But that isn't how I workout, going for broke on a set. The last time I tried 3x10, I did it at 175 and my sets were more like 10, 9, 4. And I was probably resting well over a minute between sets.

I've never recovered that quickly between sets to do the kind of work I hear people say they do. Anecdotally, I used to workout alongside an older guy who would do multiple sets of 10 at 225 on bench press, but I'd personally seen him go up over 405 on bench. He was probably working out at 55% of his ORM.

It seems like people would have different talents based on body type and muscle fiber type. I think that I have a little more power than most people, but worse endurance, and longer arms making my sets significantly more work.

Do you think there is anything to worrying about the relationship of workout weight to ORM weight, or do you think people should just use whatever weight / rep range gives a good workout and what will be will be?

You're overthinking it. Pick an established training program and stick to it. Weight training is not rocket science.

If this is how you intend to make your brain work with how to weight train, your mind would get absolutely fucked when you realize some guys squat hard everyday while others once a week and they are just as strong as each other and both are telling you their method is the best. And then their just-as-strong cousins are doing something different.

Let scientists overthink this shit. Most people (including you) don't have enough brainpower to figure this shit out. Pick a good training program and stick to it. Trial and error.

 

[SummerStriker]

You're overthinking it. Pick an established training program and stick to it. Weight training is not rocket science.

If this is how you intend to make your brain work with how to weight train, your mind would get absolutely fucked when you realize some guys squat hard everyday while others once a week and they are just as strong as each other and both are telling you their method is the best. And then their just-as-strong cousins are doing something different.

Let scientists overthink this shit. Most people (including you) don't have enough brainpower to figure this shit out. Pick a good training program and stick to it. Trial and error.

I feel ya

 

[DEVILsSON]

It honestly comes down to how much you want to push your sets.

Realistically most people can push 1 set per workout to their fullest. Even with long rest periods (10-60 min rest) you will not likely surpass your set when you were fully rested. So if you're doing bench and hit 225x14, it is unlikely you'll match or surpass it even with an hour rest. However the longer you rest the closer you'll come to this number. With 15-20 min rest, which is on the longer side but not outrageous, you may get 225x12-13 reps. But even if you only rest a few minutes, you should still be getting more than 175x9. It seems like you're greatly underestimating yourself.

If strength is the main goal then rest as long as is feasible between sets.

I have a ballpark idea most days of what weight I want to lift give or take a couple reps. I personally push myself in some way every workout. That's the only way I can stay motivated. Granted some days I will naturally feel like crap and lift low numbers however it wouldn't be by design/plan.