You don't need to add variations of main lifts

[NurseKnuckles]

for most if not all house league lifters and most if not all those lifters could simply benefit from practicing the main lifts more.

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

For beginners I agree. But some intermediate lifters can get huge benefits from variations- the key is knowing which ones they need. For most, either a paused variation or speed sets with bands is enough.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

For beginners I agree. But some intermediate lifters can get huge benefits from variations- the key is knowing which ones they need. For most, either a paused variation or speed sets with bands is enough.

OK, Good call. bands and pauses are definitely great tools.
Pauses > bands?

 

[Oblivian]

I agree with squats and deads, but I think bench variations can be important for almost any level.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

True intermediates can do whatever they want in the weight room because they are strong enough for general purposes.

It Is actually more beneficial from a general standpoint to get stronger from different leverages than just the big four.

Westside integrates this as well as greyskull and doggcrapp.

 

[Eli1015]

Concurrent periodization is great. Rotating lifts for similar new lifts every 1-2 weeks stops the biological law of accomodation.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

I agree with squats and deads, but I think bench variations can be important for almost any level.

Do you think manipulating sets and reps is more important that variations in the squat and dead?

 

[Oblivian]

Do you think manipulating sets and reps is more important that variations in the squat and dead?

I mean with the disclaimer that it's probably different for everyone, yes. With squats, I always had the best success with varying everything honestly. I'd vary intensity and volume. I'd do top sets one week with higher reps, and then top set with low reps another week. I'd have a volume day with high reps one week, and volume with low reps another. I was similar with deadlifts, although I wasn't always working towards top sets. I've always found deadlift variations besides a slight deficit as incredibly awkward.

Also, with bench, I've just found variations are much more comfortable and seem to make sense. Paused vs. touch and go, close grip, feet up, board press, dumbbell, incline, etc. It just seems so much easier to program variations.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

I mean with the disclaimer that it's probably different for everyone, yes. With squats, I always had the best success with varying everything honestly. I'd vary intensity and volume. I'd do top sets one week with higher reps, and then top set with low reps another week. I'd have a volume day with high reps one week, and volume with low reps another. I was similar with deadlifts, although I wasn't always working towards top sets. I've always found deadlift variations besides a slight deficit as incredibly awkward.

Also, with bench, I've just found variations are much more comfortable and seem to make sense. Paused vs. touch and go, close grip, feet up, board press, dumbbell, incline, etc. It just seems so much easier to program variations.

with bench, in my weak state, to progress is to improve technique on the main lift and get generally stronger with variations of pressing movements and curls.

 

[Oblivian]

with bench, in my weak state, to progress is to improve technique on the main lift and get generally stronger with variations of pressing movements and curls.

I think for me it's probably hard to pick. I increased other assistance arm work at the same time that I increased feet up bench and board presses. I really like feet up bench though. I've switched to paused bench and worked on my arch, and it's something that I can always work in even if my legs or back feel beat up from squats + deads.

 

[ASUThermo]

I think my bench jumped mostly because of adding in board press. Going to try to be consistent with block pulls for a bit to see if that helps with deadlift.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

I think my bench jumped mostly because of adding in board press. Going to try to be consistent with block pulls for a bit to see if that helps with deadlift.

I think block pulls could be a good variation in that it will likely help you feel heavier loads into lockout. I prefer deficits since I'm way shittier from the floor. If the weight comes off the floor, I'm likely to lock it out.

 

[dannysmith]

My opinion solely based on strength training for powerlifting. People trying to perfect a movement pattern and be stronger within it.

Beginners should be doing 3x5 or 5x5 with a handful of isolation movements until they stall long term...sometime around 18 months is common. Theyre now intermediate lifters.

Intermediate lifters (18 months until 5-7 years of training) should focus on getting in a high number of QUALITY reps in the 65-75% range, with loads in the 75-90% range spread in and out (think sheiko) with phases geared towards hypertrophy where more accessories and variations are sprinkled in and phases geared towards the specific barbell movements.

Hypertrophy blocks will have a few more reps per set, and the sets will be to failure or closer to failure, with less specific compound movements, such as adding in dumbbell incline bench, barbell/dumbbell OHP, etc. More isolation movements.

Strength blocks will have fewer reps per set, further away from failure as to allow for more total reps by doing more sets, with more goal specific movements. These movements are close grip bench, pause squats/deadlifts, less incline and no overhead movements.

Hypertrophy phases typically last 8 weeks followed by a 4-6 week strength phase and a 4-6 week peak leading to competition.



This is how i program for the people that Ive helped in the intermediate category with some good success.

Ive never coached or given advice to a true advanced lifter because im not one.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

What categorizes an intermediate lifter?

 

[Oblivian]

I think block pulls could be a good variation in that it will likely help you feel heavier loads into lockout. I prefer deficits since I'm way shittier from the floor. If the weight comes off the floor, I'm likely to lock it out.

Have you heard or read about where Dan Green talks about deficits actually being better for improving lockouts and block pulls better for improving breaking from the floor? It seems strange at first, but I actually think he's correct. I struggle off the floor as well and I don't think I've ever failed a deadlift that got past the knees. Not coincidentally, my deficit pull is pretty damn close to my conventional. The toughest part of the deficit pull for me? The lockout. In fact, I think it's the only time where I really had to grind lockouts. It definitely feels that I'm working the lockout more than anything. My block pulls are weak as hell unless the pins are really high. What does it feel like I'm working most on those? The initial force off of the floor. Any block pull that I break off of the block is going to be locked out. The toughest part of every rep will be breaking it from the floor.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

Have you heard or read about where Dan Green talks about deficits actually being better for improving lockouts and block pulls better for improving breaking from the floor? It seems strange at first, but I actually think he's correct. I struggle off the floor as well and I don't think I've ever failed a deadlift that got past the knees. Not coincidentally, my deficit pull is pretty damn close to my conventional. The toughest part of the deficit pull for me? The lockout. In fact, I think it's the only time where I really had to grind lockouts. It definitely feels that I'm working the lockout more than anything. My block pulls are weak as hell unless the pins are really high. What does it feel like I'm working most on those? The initial force off of the floor. Any block pull that I break off of the block is going to be locked out. The toughest part of every rep will be breaking it from the floor.

I've heard about it. I've never really maxed out on deficit. Its always been a percentage of conventional. I've never really done block pulls for any significant time since I rarely have the equipment available so I guess its hard for me to compare. I like deficits but to be honest I'm not really doing any variations of squats or deads. I'll front squat 1x per week but I back squat on the other 2 days. I do SLDL (as an assistance for squat) for high reps on 2 days and conventional on 1.

 

[dannysmith]

What categorizes an intermediate lifter?

What i classify as an intermediate lifter is basic time really training for the specific sport. Typically 18 months to two years. Then the rate of progress. If you can still progress linearly without gaining bodyweight, youre a beginner by my train of thought.

If you to cant add 10lbs to your bench press (without gaining bodyweight) in 2 or 3 months with linear programming then youre not a beginner and are becoming or have become an intermediate

 

[NurseKnuckles]

What i classify as an intermediate lifter is basic time really training for the specific sport. Typically 18 months to two years. Then the rate of progress. If you can still progress linearly without gaining bodyweight, youre a beginner by my train of thought.

If you to cant add 10lbs to your bench press (without gaining bodyweight) in 2 or 3 months with linear programming then youre not a beginner and are becoming or have become an intermediate

Interesting. Cool.

 

[waiguoren]

@Oblivian

What's your take on the effect of squatting on knees?

I've followed the career of Ricky Lundell for some years now. He's now pushing the idea that squatting max weight daily 7 days/week with proper technique heals knees and backs. He's putting up some serious numbers these days and says he has never felt better. Ricky Lundell strikes me as the type of person who could convince the masses to buy pet rocks instead of barbie dolls so I'd like your expert opinion.

 

[Oblivian]

@Oblivian

What's your take on the effect of squatting on knees?

I've followed the career of Ricky Lundell for some years now. He's now pushing the idea that squatting max weight daily 7 days/week with proper technique heals knees and backs. He's putting up some serious numbers these days and says he has never felt better. Ricky Lundell strikes me as the type of person who could convince the masses to buy pet rocks instead of barbie dolls so I'd like your expert opinion.

Loaded question. I mean my knees and back don’t always feel great, but I rarely ever miss lifting or other activities. At my age, I just find it interesting that so many people my age or younger who don’t lift have back and knee issues. So many claim that lifting heavy will fuck you up, but I’d say my GPP and injury issues are better than the majority my age. Soreness is a daily issue though!