Float like a butterfly OR hit like a truck...a better way to throw hands!!

[Woldog]

Didn't read a single word of this but huge if true.

 

[shincheckin]

if you really want to see some flat footed fighting take a look at MT. Its probably the flattest footed style of fighting of all, not that guys cant fight on the balls of their feet or bounce in MT........but a really good example of flat foot MT style vs a bouncy on the toes style is sam a vs haggerty. Theres advantages and disadvantages to both ways. another good fighter to watch with a more flat style is yodsanklai.......the bouncy KB style is good on the outside but makes it hard for big power kicks and clinching. another good comparison of these styles is yod vs chike....i think the bouncy style is good on the outside, not so much for inside fighting. take a look at how good chike does against yod at the beginning when he stayed on the outside.

 

[-guerilla-]

if you really want to see some flat footed fighting take a look at MT. Its probably the flattest footed style of fighting of all, not that guys cant fight on the balls of their feet or bounce in MT........but a really good example of flat foot MT style vs a bouncy on the toes style is sam a vs haggerty. Theres advantages and disadvantages to both ways. another good fighter to watch with a more flat style is yodsanklai.......the bouncy KB style is good on the outside but makes it hard for big power kicks and clinching. another good comparison of these styles is yod vs chike

great point

MT is VERY flat foot when throwing hands in particular

I always liked its unique boxing style

Ali really inspired a LOT of imitators with his mobility and legions of boxing trainers became obsessed with staying on the balls of your feet for "mobility"

in addition the notion that rolling up on the ball of your foot when throwing a cross is "necessary" somehow is just fallacy

 

[Sano]

I hope you aren’t taking this clown to heart @Sano. This sub can be a cesspool for trolls and wannabes but your posts are a welcome addition. I was wondering if you had any insights on @Dexter post about power generation in the Cuban boxing thread.

Don't worry I'm not bothered at all, but thanks for the support! I haven't been following the thread but I'll see if I can check in if I have something to attribute. Hope you're enjoying your christmas!

 

[Sano]

great point

MT is VERY flat foot when throwing hands in particular

I always liked its unique boxing style

Ali really inspired a LOT of imitators with his mobility and legions of boxing trainers became obsessed with staying on the balls of your feet for "mobility"

in addition the notion that rolling up on the ball of your foot when throwing a cross is "necessary" somehow is just fallacy

Did you even watch the videos? The first you can't see their feet on the exchanges, but the second none of them are throwing their punches, including straights, with their feet flat.

 

[-guerilla-]

Did you even watch the videos? The first you can't see their feet on the exchanges, but the second none of them are throwing their punches, including straights, with their feet flat.

I don't have to watch the videos to know that Muay Thai advocates for flat foot punching more often than American "on your toes" boxing

Before Muhammad Ali most Fighters were taught to keep their feet firmly planted on the ground as they threw their punches

Bounding around the ring on the balls of your foot was a radical new theory that had definite advantages and definite drawbacks

Nobody in their right mind can argue that athletes dont punch harder off a well planted flat base foot than you do bouncing up, tipping forward or with the majority of your weight on your front foot while some small percentage remains on you rear foot that is now likely entirely off the ground

the only question is whether or not you can land it

Without a doubt a "tipping" punch that lands is better than a well planted punch that misses

That said we should always strive to throw all our punches off well planted flat base feet because that produces the best weight transfer/power into the strike AND reminds us to not lean over too far

The vast majority of successful punches thrown in competition were not thrown with ideal posture

Ideal posture is very rare

My wall example is deadlock proof that the best way to throw your straight punches especially is off a well planted flat base foot

Try it on the heavy bag if you want

Get in the proper boxing stance and start whacking away at the heavy bag with your cross punch

Throw three or four with your rear foot flat on the ground

three or four with your rear foot up on the ball and then throw three or four with your rear foot completely off the ground

It will become immediately apparent to anyone that does this exercise that you're robbing yourself of punching power and posture by doing anything but staying flat on your feet throughout the vast majority of your punches

 

[Sano]

I don't have to watch the videos to know that Muay Thai advocates for flat foot punching more often than American "on your toes" boxing

Before Muhammad Ali most Fighters were taught to keep their feet firmly planted on the ground as they threw their punches

Bounding around the ring on the balls of your foot was a radical new theory that had definite advantages and definite drawbacks

Nobody in their right mind can argue that athletes dont punch harder off a well planted flat base foot than you do bouncing up, tipping forward or with the majority of your weight on your front foot while some small percentage remains on you rear foot that is now likely entirely off the ground

the only question is whether or not you can land it

Without a doubt a "tipping" punch that lands is better than a well planted punch that misses

That said we should always strive to throw all our punches off well planted flat base feet because that produces the best weight transfer/power into the strike AND reminds us to not lean over too far

The vast majority of successful punches thrown in competition were not thrown with ideal posture

Ideal posture is very rare

My wall example is deadlock proof that the best way to throw your straight punches especially is off a well planted flat base foot

Try it on the heavy bag if you want

Get in the proper boxing stance and start whacking away at the heavy bag with your cross punch

Throw three or four with your rear foot flat on the ground

three or four with your rear foot up on the ball and then throw three or four with your rear foot completely off the ground

It will become immediately apparent to anyone that does this exercise that you're robbing yourself of punching power and posture by doing anything but staying flat on your feet throughout the vast majority of your punches

Nobody is talking about leaning over or having all their weight on the front foot. You're moving the goalpost. The oldtimers, including Marciano, Shavers, Louis, Dempsey, Sadler, Armstrong and so on. All of them turned their rear foot over and lifted their heels, so you're wrong again.

Arguing with you is pointless.

 

[-guerilla-]

Naseem was famous for his punching power and largely dug in with a flat base foot as he threw his cross

Here's a great example of him loading up on a huge cross and then missing causing his rear foot to come flying off the ground

One can clearly see how much trouble this miss put him in

 

[-guerilla-]

Nobody is talking about leaning over or having all their weight on the front foot. You're moving the goalpost. The oldtimers, including Marciano, Shavers, Louis, Dempsey, Sadler, Armstrong and so on. All of them turned their rear foot over and lifted their heels, so you're wrong again.

Arguing with you is pointless.

Just because your Heroes did it that way doesn't mean it's the ideal way to throw your punches

This is the ultimate in martial arts fallacies as the copycat monkey see monkey do syndrome becomes predominant in the students mentality

When we look back at boxing from a hundred years ago we think it's ridiculous the way they fought when they look back at boxing a hundred years from now they are going to see you guys turning your foot over and introducing your ankle and gastrocnemius as a shock absorber in between your punch and the floor and wonder why

You won't address my wall experiment because you know its Simplicity is proof that putting your weight on a flat back foot produces the heaviest of straight punches

 

[-guerilla-]

Prime Mike Tyson (the hardest hitting athlete in Combat Sports history) Dug to the body with a deeply rooted flat base foot

 

[zapataxiv]

Don't worry I'm not bothered at all, but thanks for the support! I haven't been following the thread but I'll see if I can check in if I have something to attribute. Hope you're enjoying your christmas!

You too cheers

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

You can't stay flat on your rear foot and achieve maximum power - doing so involves removing some of the important muscles that help contribute to power from the equation, as well as limiting your range of motion in the hips.

Ankle extension is an important element of a lot of movements that are explosive - olympic lifting or sprinting, or even things like hitting a baseball and a golf swing.

 

[-guerilla-]

You can't stay flat on your rear foot and achieve maximum power - doing so involves removing some of the important muscles that help contribute to power from the equation, as well as limiting your range of motion in the hips.

Ankle extension is an important element of a lot of movements that are explosive - olympic lifting or sprinting, or even things like hitting a baseball and a golf swing.

You can't stay flat on your rear foot and achieve maximum power - doing so involves removing some of the important muscles that help contribute to power from the equation, as well as limiting your range of motion in the hips.

Ankle extension is an important element of a lot of movements that are explosive - olympic lifting or sprinting, or even things like hitting a baseball and a golf swing.

You have a point in that pushing off with the foot is part of a wider "chain of events" that increases reach and propels your COG foward as you punch

However it also adds a flex point in the "chain" that absorbs shock

The human leg is a phenomenal shock absorber Design By Nature to absorb impact and is the final link in the chain that braces your frame to the ground

A jumping punch will never be as powerful as a punch delivered from a deeply rooted flat-footed stance

when you throw a punch from anything but a deeply rooted flat-footed stance you're relying more on speed and momentum that you are on weight transfer

weight transfer is that unique feel of the heavy puncher

Some athletes punches feel much heavier than others even though they may be of similar weight and strength

Try to learn to hit the heavybag with your rear foot well planted

When you get comfortable with the technique you will find that you can impart much more weight to your strike with less physical effort and less chance of counter because your balance is so much better as your COG is resting comfortably not tipping out forward in a falling motion as you miss

I tip out all the time because its the only way to REACH my target but then i regret it because even tho i landed a blow i am off balance and they can hit me very hard

BAD


BETTER


BEST

 

[kenji goh]

Mike Tyson punched like any other boxer with his rear heel up in the end of the movement.
It's clear in every fight and in any training footage.

You can see him teaching a bunch of people doing it here.
He even uses the cigarette metaphor.


Spacetime clearly has a great challenger.

 

[-guerilla-]

Mike Tyson punched like any other boxer with his rear heel up in the end of the movement.
It's clear in every fight and in any training footage.

You can see him teaching a bunch of people doing it here.
He even uses the cigarette metaphor.


Spacetime clearly has a great challenger.

Yeah...thats the "conventional" method

Heres a guy that beat iron mike doing it a better way



# get ur learn on

 

[kenji goh]

Lennox also threw the right like any other boxer, like all Emmanuel Steward's boxers did.
With the heel up.
https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/images/2001-1117-Lennox-Lewis-Hasim-Rahman-001242926.jpg
try better troll.

 

[-guerilla-]

Lennox also threw the right like any other boxer, like all Emmanuel Steward's boxers did.
With the heel up.
https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/images/2001-1117-Lennox-Lewis-Hasim-Rahman-001242926.jpg
try better troll.

Everybody pops the heel up when they "reach out" to hit their target

Its a normal way to get just a bit more reach at a major cost of power

I do it all the time yet i am aware its not the best way to throw a cross

Its not "incorrect"

Theres just a better way to throw your cross

With the heel ON THE GROUND

Ideal "perfect" punches are rare

Most are poor in one category or another

Lots of mythology and fallacy in the fight game

Your confused and lashing out

Thats normal

 

[kenji goh]

Everybody pops the heel up when they "reach out" to hit their target

Its a normal way to get just a bit more reach at a major cost of power

I do i all the time yet i am aware its not the best way to throw a cross

Its not "incorrect"

Theres just a better way to throw your cross

With the heel ON THE GROUND

Ideal "perfect" punches are rare

Most are poor in one category or another

Lots of mythology and fallacy in the fight game

Your confused

You are talking nonsense as usual.

I am sure you do it all the time.

The way you do is incorrect.

No one punches with the heel on the ground you flat earther freak.

You couldn't tell what's an ideal punch even if you had the national Russian boxing team training in front of you on the park.
Every boxing gym teaches it that way. Rear heel up is what considered ideal.

Your form is certainly poor.

Lots of spacetime's doppelgangers in the stand up forum.

You're ridiculous.



You have the weird idea that if you rotate on the the ball of your rear foot while punching with the rear hand, you will overreach and fall.
The truth is the exact opposite.
Lifting the rear foot and twisting it like putting out a cigarette enables your hips to rotate internally and generate power without having to go forward.
You can stay where the hell you are because you rotate around your body axis.

The few styles that don't lift the heel are old kung fu styles like Tai chi or before 20th century bare knuckle boxing styles
and guess where those punches got power in place of rotation.
By lunging and weight transferring the bulk of their weight in the front foot. The exact thing you think that happens with having the heel up lol.

You were using as examples to validate your drivel two legendary boxers who punch completely differently from what you advocate.
Yet you insinuate that only in these particular snapshots they got it right and the rest 99% they were overextended? LOL
I blame Cus D'Amato and Stewart who taught them this obviously imperfect form.
Thank god they were just boxers or else we might have had to endure watching them kick while rotating on the ball of their foot.
Jesus Lord had mercy upon our souls.

 

[-guerilla-]

A lot of people were shocked and amazed to see a jab thrown from only a couple inches away KOing one of the scariest athletes to ever step foot in the MMA ring but it is a simple story of physics and biomechanical phenomena

Without good bracing a punch is entirely reliant on its speed and inertia to do damage but when an opponent is well braced against a cage for instance their punches will hit with a much higher force because there is no shock absorber (Like a human leg)
to lessen the impact of the strike

Had Seth petruzelli been in the middle of the ring with his weight on his front foot this jab would not have even got Kimbos attention however since he was well braced against the back of the cage and he had his front foot in the air he had all of his weight on his back foot (literally against the wall) so the strike had a phenomenal amount of support behind it

 

[-guerilla-]

You are talking nonsense as usual.

I am sure you do it all the time.

The way you do it is incorrect.

No one punches with the heel on the ground you flat earther freak.

You couldn't tell what's an ideal punch even if you had the national Russian boxing team training in front of you on the park.
Every boxing gym teaches it that way. Rear heel up is what considered ideal.

Your form is certainly poor.

Lots of spacetime's doppelgangers in the stand up forum.

You're ridiculous.



You have the weird idea that if you rotate in the the ball of your rear foot while punching with the rear hand, you will overreach and fall.
The truth is the exact opposite.
Lifting the rear foot and twisting it like putting out a cigarette enables your hips to rotate internally and generate power without having to go forward.
You can stay where the hell you are because you rotate around your body axis.

The few styles that don't lift the heel are old kung fu styles like Tai chi or before 20th century bare knuckle boxing styles
and guess where those punches got power in place of rotation.
By lunging and weight transferring the bulk of their weight in the front foot. The exact thing you think that happens with having the heel up lol.

You were using as examples to validate your drivel two legendary boxers who punch completely differently from what you advocate.
Yet you insinuate that only in these particular snapshots they got it right and the rest 99% they were overextended? LOL
I blame Cus D'Amato and Stewart who taught them this obviously imperfect form.
Thank god they were just boxers or else we might have had to endure watching them kick while rotating in the ball of their foot.
Jesus Lord had mercy upon our souls.

LOL

Whenever someone challenges conventional wisdom they should expect a fair amount of pushback from the peanut gallery

Those that have invested in a certain standard can become very upset when they think that they may have been wrong all this time

Lots of silly old timey superstitions and fallacies in fight Sports



Going up on the ball of your rear base foot as you throw the cross is not "incorrect"

Its a technique that sacrifices power for reach and is sometimes a better idea

As long as you are aware that its actually superior to settle down into a flat base foot for power, balance and followup strikes as the standard you should strive for