Weight transfer is what you should study in straight punch striking power
"Sitting down" on your punches largely means putting your full weight potential into your punches
The wall exercise is dead lock proof that a flat rear base foot gives the puncher the best weight transfer into the strike as the "push potential" is so much heavier opposed to ball of foot or tipping (entire rear foot floating)
Hooks and uppercut are largely momentum based power whereas the cross in particular can be more biomechanical
Mike tyson dug to the body with phenomenal punching power and used the flat base foot in doing so
Take a lesson from the hardest hitter in the world
Keep your rear foot FLAT to generate the most power just like iron mike especially when going to the body or with any straight punch
Keeping you rear foot flat also increases your balance potential as you cant "lean out" and "reach over" your hips as much
You don't understand biomechanics and physics very well, but that's alright. It's very complicated and with something as multifaceted as martial arts I haven't met anyone who had all the answers. I certaintly don't either. But your example with the wall is not applicable, for reasons that was mentioned in the last reply. Mike Tyson also isn't the hardest hitter ever and the stills you showed of him with his foot completely flat was not straight punches.
Just to clarify, I don't have a master in biomechanics. I'm studying biomechanics and kinematics on my own time, but I have a bachelors in physical therapy (which includes exercise science here), and I'm taking a master in pain science next year. I do however want to take my PhD in biomechanics and kinematics, specifically combat sports if I get lucky enough. I work full time as a physio in orthopeadic and neurological rehab, but I do part time as a S&C coach for athletes. Mostly soccer players, boxers, MMA fighters, handball and some T&F.
I work full time as a physio in orthopeadic and neurological rehab, but I do part time as a S&C coach for athletes. Mostly soccer players, boxers, MMA fighters, handball and some T&F.
You don't understand biomechanics and physics very well, but that's alright. It's very complicated and with something as multifaceted as martial arts I haven't met anyone who had all the answers. I certaintly don't either. But your example with the wall is not applicable, for reasons that was mentioned in the last reply. Mike Tyson also isn't the hardest hitter ever and the stills you showed of him with his foot completely flat was not straight punches.
Just to clarify, I don't have a master in biomechanics. I'm studying biomechanics and kinematics on my own time, but I have a bachelors in physical therapy (which includes exercise science here), and I'm taking a master in pain science next year. I do however want to take my PhD in biomechanics and kinematics, specifically combat sports if I get lucky enough. I work full time as a physio in orthopeadic and neurological rehab, but I do part time as a S&C coach for athletes. Mostly soccer players, boxers, MMA fighters, handball and some T&F.
You don't want your rear foot OFF the ground or you will bleed most of your power.
You don't want your foot "on" the ground with something weak like just the tip of your shoe/toes, or else it might as well be in the air because that is not a solid connection.
You want a sturdy part of your foot connected solidly to the ground. It doesn't have to be your heel/flat of your entire foot-- it can just as easily be the sturdy BALL of the foot (large area behind the toes, which the toes connect to) that makes a a very solid base (especially if you have the conditioning from running/jump-rope).
This is the best way imo, as it is not only solidly connected but also gives several more inches of knuckle penetration (and distance to continue accelerating) when you are punching, it also tends to grip the floor better (better pushing forward and transmitting force in the direction needed) than a flat foot for longer distance straight punches.
Also, since the right hand tends to come up short a lot of the time, that's another argument for having the heel of your rear foot come off the ground for a typical straight right. Gives a lot more distance and penetration, without leaning, which you should know how to do if you go through the proper practice.
If you have weak legs and ankles, a flat foot may work better, who knows. It certainly can work at times, but the most devastating punchers we've seen tend to, by default, utilize the front part of the foot as they are able to lengthen the distance of continuous acceleration by using it.
At this point, this thread is no longer about "bouncing" (as the thread title refers to) being necessary or helping with punch mechanics because everyone agrees its more for mobility and it doesn't help your punches get maximum leverage.
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It's now about punching with a flat foot...
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I noticed that Lennox Lewis stays on the ball of his back foot. He doesn't raise his heel very high (you don't need to), but you can see that he does. It definitely does not stay flat. His weight is on the strong area behind the toes.
Tyson does this too.
What's confusing about this post is that Tyson DOES bounce around alot, he's just more bent-kneed when he does it.
If you look carefully NONE of the top guys deliver with a flat foot, it just looks that way to some if you're not looking carefully. They may not lift their heel high (it doesn't need to be lifted hardly at all), it's more about punching with the weight on the area behind the toes and launching from the weight being on that area. * If you look carefully you'll see that their foot is not flat when they're about to punch and throughout the punch, even though it casually may register that way at the beginning if you're not looking straight at it.
The greats by default don't punch from their heels or flat feet.
You don't understand why walking up to a stationary object and pushing against it without moving is not a good representation of how force is transferred in an explosive movement that combines many muscle groups?
The momentum has already transferred off of the foot in that type of punch when a good boxer would lift his back foot off of the ground. Look at how a professional pitcher throws. A ton of force can be generated and transferred in that way.
With the rear foot planted you can follow through, which is an obvious benefit for most punches, especially to the body. The fact that it allows you to continually apply force rather than transferring all of it instantaneously is why it works better for your wall exercise, but continually applying the force doesn't have anything to do with many punches. Following through doesn't necessarily mean more power, and it definitely isn't a requirement for knocking people out.
I agree to an extent, but what reactionary forces come into play with an overhand? it applies for straight punches to some degree, but I'm not sure about hooks and overhands where you are relying heavily on circular momentum, to generate force.
The way I see it (and I have a very limited understanding of physics) is you are either throwing a rock at your opponent or a sponge. Bracing doesn't provide any more force it mearly creates a more solid weapon, therefore maximizing weight tranferal is still the primary generator of force.
I see what you're saying but all punches where you push into the ground to initate the punch (so all punches) uses reactionary forces. Hooks probably less for sure, overhands though would be up there. The rock and sponge analogy is a good one, because the stiffening and bracing on impact is about transferring "effective mass". Basically the reason is that rigidity is more effective in transferring force than "wobbling mass" or elasticity. If you're too loose alot of the force will dissipate through the soft chain on impact. However, creating tension and brancing from the legs, core and through the arm helps you deliver the force better. You don't want to be tense during the entire punch though because increasing effective mass over the entire duration (being stiff) will reduce acceleration. That's where the notion of a "second impulse" comes in. Force to initiate the punch, relaxation to increase acceleration, force/bracing on impact to increase effective mass and power transfer. Boxing is all about the relationship between tension and relaxation. These things happen so rapidly, so to relax doesn't mean to collapse.
You don't want your rear foot OFF the ground or you will bleed most of your power.
You don't want your foot "on" the ground with something weak like just the tip of your shoe/toes, or else it might as well be in the air because that is not a solid connection.
You want a sturdy part of your foot connected solidly to the ground. It doesn't have to be your heel/flat of your entire foot-- it can just as easily be the sturdy BALL of the foot (large area behind the toes, which the toes connect to) that makes a a very solid base (especially if you have the conditioning from running/jump-rope).
This is the best way imo, as it is not only solidly connected but also gives several more inches of knuckle penetration (and distance to continue accelerating) when you are punching, it also tends to grip the floor better (better pushing forward and transmitting force in the direction needed) than a flat foot for longer distance straight punches.
Also, since the right hand tends to come up short a lot of the time, that's another argument for having the heel of your rear foot come off the ground for a typical straight right. Gives a lot more distance and penetration, without leaning, which you should know how to do if you go through the proper practice.
If you have weak legs and ankles, a flat foot may work better, who knows. It certainly can work at times, but the most devastating punchers we've seen tend to, by default, utilize the front part of the foot as they are able to lengthen the distance of continuous acceleration by using it.
I suffered a severe tear in my calf playing soccer in Miami
Didnt really bother me so much untill i moved to NC and started boxing again
now i feel the pain and weakness in my calf when the punch connects to a heavy object especially in cold weather
I always knew that a flat base foot maximises power transfer but now i get a painful reminder
Going up on the ball of your foot actually puts a suspension factor in between the point of impact and the base support (like a shock absorber)
you can still KO somebody with this kind of strike it's just less likely to blast through a guard and do the maximum damage to your target especially when punching to the body
At this point, this thread is no longer about "bouncing" (as the thread title refers to) being necessary or helping with punch mechanics because everyone agrees its more for mobility and it doesn't help your punches get maximum leverage.
-------------------------------------------------------
It's now about punching with a flat foot...
-------------------------------------------------------
I noticed that Lennox Lewis stays on the ball of his back foot. He doesn't raise his heel very high (you don't need to), but you can see that he does. It definitely does not stay flat. His weight is on the strong area behind the toes.
Tyson does this too.
What's confusing about this post is that Tyson DOES bounce around alot, he's just more bent-kneed when he does it.
If you look carefully NONE of the top guys deliver with a flat foot, it just looks that way to some if you're not looking carefully. They may not lift their heel high (it doesn't need to be lifted hardly at all), it's more about punching with the weight on the area behind the toes and launching from the weight being on that area. * If you look carefully you'll see that their foot is not flat when they're about to punch and throughout the punch, even though it casually may register that way at the beginning if you're not looking straight at it.
The greats by default don't punch from their heels or flat feet.
I also roll up on the ball of my foot on most of my punches because I (just like the "greats") often times reach out to get my strike on Target even though I'm robbing myself of power
Tysons bouncing movement was radically different than Ali or homes who literally danced (bouncing their entire COG up and down)
Tyson's bobbing and weaving was done with a deeply rooted stance and was facilitated by legs bent at the knee not from a literal hop in the air
You don't understand why walking up to a stationary object and pushing against it without moving is not a good representation of how force is transferred in an explosive movement that combines many muscle groups?
The momentum has already transferred off of the foot in that type of punch when a good boxer would lift his back foot off of the ground. Look at how a professional pitcher throws. A ton of force can be generated and transferred in that way.
With the rear foot planted you can follow through, which is an obvious benefit for most punches, especially to the body. The fact that it allows you to continually apply force rather than transferring all of it instantaneously is why it works better for your wall exercise, but continually applying the force doesn't have anything to do with many punches. Following through doesn't necessarily mean more power, and it definitely isn't a requirement for knocking people out.
I see what you're saying but all punches where you push into the ground to initate the punch (so all punches) uses reactionary forces. Hooks probably less for sure, overhands though would be up there. The rock and sponge analogy is a good one, because the stiffening and bracing on impact is about transferring "effective mass". Basically the reason is that rigidity is more effective in transferring force than "wobbling mass" or elasticity. If you're too loose alot of the force will dissipate through the soft chain on impact. However, creating tension and brancing from the legs, core and through the arm helps you deliver the force better. You don't want to be tense during the entire punch though because increasing effective mass over the entire duration (being stiff) will reduce acceleration. That's where the notion of a "second impulse" comes in. Force to initiate the punch, relaxation to increase acceleration, force/bracing on impact to increase effective mass and power transfer. Boxing is all about the relationship between tension and relaxation. These things happen so rapidly, so to relax doesn't mean to collapse.
sounds like you agree with me on the flat base foot subject yet you don't like my experiment
I don't feel like searching out your first rebuttal so why don't you reiterate it for me?
I will reiterate for you
walk up to a wall and get in a proper boxing stance
Place your cross fist knuckles against the wall and then push on it as hard as you can transferring as much of your body weight into your knuckles as possible
during your maximum weight transfer (while still maintaining a proper boxing stance) alternate between a...
1: flat rear base foot
2: on toes (ball of foot)
3: rear foot lifted entirely off the ground (tipping)
during this simple exercise you will feel the forces that I am talking about
"Push power" makes your punches HEAVY
this also means that they take far less energy to throw because you are letting your weight do most of the damage
striving to keep your rear base foot flat will also help you maintain proper posture and reduce the likelihood of you reaching out over your hips thus losing balance as you strike
Everyone should kick and throw your straight punches from a FLAT base foot stance
sounds like you agree with me on the flat base foot subject yet you don't like my experiment
I don't feel like searching out your first rebuttal so why don't you reiterate it for me?
I will reiterate for you
walk up to a wall and get in a proper boxing stance
Place your cross fist knuckles against the wall and then push on it as hard as you can transferring as much of your body weight into your knuckles as possible
during your maximum weight transfer (while still maintaining a proper boxing stance) alternate between a...
1: flat rear base foot
2: on toes (ball of foot)
3: rear foot lifted entirely off the ground (tipping)
during this simple exercise you will feel the forces that I am talking about
"Push power" makes your punches HEAVY
this also means that they take far less energy to throw because you are letting your weight do most of the damage
striving to keep your rear base foot flat will also help you maintain proper posture and reduce the likelihood of you reaching out over your hips thus losing balance as you strike
Everyone should kick and throw your straight punches from a FLAT base foot stance
Jesus christ dude know your limitations already. You clearly have no idea about what you're talking about, yet you insist on acting as if you do. Not only that you can't even be bothered to look a few posts back yet you want me to reiterate what I already said? Talk about being arrogant.
Jesus christ dude know your limitations already. You clearly have no idea about what you're talking about, yet you insist on acting as if you do. Not only that you can't even be bothered to look a few posts back yet you want me to reiterate what I already said? Talk about being arrogant.
okay I looked back a few posts trying to find this intelligent scientific retort however I found nothing but a bunch of vapid mincing about "knowbody knows the secrets"?
Might it be that you are avoiding reiteration of your rebuttal because it was so limp-wristed and nebulous that you don't want to be reminded of it?
What base foot position do you recommend when an athlete is throwing the cross?
Something tells me a professional combat sports coach knows more about how to hit hard than a physical therapist
You squeeze in any fights between the coffee shop and the hospital helping gramdma with her new hip?
2. The force that moves the ball was moving the hand just the same before the moment of release
3. Now you're adding qualifying criteria of trying to punch through someone's guard. You never said it couldn't be a cleanly landing punch. You're moving the goal posts. That is one of the situations where following through is essential. Everyone has already acknowledged that there are scenarios where that is best
At this point you should already know that your initial premise was wrong. By moving the goal posts you have essentially conceded that. You're just arguing to argue
Jesus christ dude know your limitations already. You clearly have no idea about what you're talking about, yet you insist on acting as if you do. Not only that you can't even be bothered to look a few posts back yet you want me to reiterate what I already said? Talk about being arrogant.
I hope you aren’t taking this clown to heart @Sano. This sub can be a cesspool for trolls and wannabes but your posts are a welcome addition. I was wondering if you had any insights on @Dexter post about power generation in the Cuban boxing thread.
2. The force that moves the ball was moving the hand just the same before the moment of release
3. Now you're adding qualifying criteria of trying to punch through someone's guard. You because said it couldn't be a cleanly landing punch. You're moving the goal posts. That is one of the situations where following through is essential. Everyone has already acknowledged that there are scenarios where that is best
At this point you should already know that your initial premise was wrong. By moving the goal posts you have essentially conceded that. You're just arguing to argue
Well i am the exact same size as mark hunt and i can do the splits and headkick with ease having been in the ring with former world champions since the early 90ties
Anybody who knows crap about throwing hands knows how to sit down on their punches
Big men dont "pirroute" like small fellas
You sound like a small guy who is a good student being dedicated to your heros teaching
You should check out my heavyweight coach thread for tips about heavyweight dynamics
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