Range reports: Whatcha do this week?

[RerouteToRemain]

To this point, for much of my pistol shooting, I adopted a Bob Vogel-style deathgrip; where my elbows would flare out and I would almost visualize trying to press the ridges of my hands inwards.

Lately, I've been experimenting more with the late Ron Avery's "sticky grip"; I'm now trying to press the heels of my palms towards the fingers, if that makes sense.

I'm also knocking the rust off, from 5 years of not having adequate access to a pistol range and incorporating 25 yard pistol shots on a regular basis. Archery has seemingly gone by the wayside, lol.

So I've adopted the grip by a guy named Tony Cowden. Honestly I love a lot of what he preaches. It's no nonsense to the point effectiveness.

Basically you are trying to make a vice at the top of your grip. So imagine grabbing a horseshoe and trying bend it back to straight. Basically pushing the top of your hands together and pulling the bottom apart. Some pressure forward with your strong, pressure back with your support but mostly focused on the vice.

 

[jlagman]

So I've adopted the grip by a guy named Tony Cowden. Honestly I love a lot of what he preaches. It's no nonsense to the point effectiveness.

Basically you are trying to make a vice at the top of your grip. So imagine grabbing a horseshoe and trying bend it back to straight. Basically pushing the top of your hands together and pulling the bottom apart. Some pressure forward with your strong, pressure back with your support but mostly focused on the vice.

That sounds similar to what I got from Bob Vogel, but I think we explained it differently.

Pussy alert, don't you find it somewhat tiring? I find that on range sessions, when I focus on essentially trying to ridge hand my gun in half, just below the slide, I eventually begin to fatigue at the triceps and shoulders, then eventually the trigger finger's next.



FF to about 15:35.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

That sounds similar to what I got from Bob Vogel, but I think we explained it differently.

Pussy alert, don't you find it somewhat tiring? I find that on range sessions, when I focus on essentially trying to ridge hand my gun in half, just below the slide, I eventually begin to fatigue at the triceps and shoulders, then eventually the trigger finger's next.



FF to about 15:35.

Yeah very similar.

No I don't feel that much fatigue from it. I've gotten a blister from shooting a lot a few days in a row.

 

[Mike Hagger]

So I've adopted the grip by a guy named Tony Cowden. Honestly I love a lot of what he preaches. It's no nonsense to the point effectiveness.

Basically you are trying to make a vice at the top of your grip. So imagine grabbing a horseshoe and trying bend it back to straight. Basically pushing the top of your hands together and pulling the bottom apart. Some pressure forward with your strong, pressure back with your support but mostly focused on the vice.

I’m not understanding the pulling the bottom apart portion there.

The vice grip I got, use your hands to cover as much of the pistol grip as possible. I don’t think a very tight grip is really that advantageous. I consider the strength I’m using to be similar to how I’d hold a hammer. Why would I pull when that is the motion I’m trying to control anyways? I just consider the recoils is going to happen, hold the pistol firmly and get back on target. Good follow through with the trigger finger, follow the sights, up and right for me, rengage when my sight post is slightly above my point of aim. That’s kind of my method.

Trying to control the recoil is different than to prevent.

I think grip work can really be trained well using 2 shot drills. Use an empty and a full mag. Shot one on the empty, slide lock reload, shot the next from the full. Then tac mag reload. Repeat. Doing this drills immediate reloads, and building grip simultaneously. Add in a pro timer and speed is trained or move back to 25 and we’re working accuracy.

I personally do a substantial amount of shooting at 25+, paper or steel.

Whatever grip a guy uses, trigger squeeze and sight picture must not be forgotten, I’d argue grip is considered well behind those two. Evident as I’ve certainly seen some guys blasting 1 handed that put me to shame, in speed and accuracy. Ie hip clearing a plate rack at 25..

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I’m not understanding the pulling the bottom apart portion there.

The vice grip I got, use your hands to cover as much of the pistol grip as possible. I don’t think a very tight grip is really that advantageous. I consider the strength I’m using to be similar to how I’d hold a hammer. Why would I pull when that is the motion I’m trying to control anyways? I just consider the recoils is going to happen, hold the pistol firmly and get back on target. Good follow through with the trigger finger, follow the sights, up and right for me, rengage when my sight post is slightly above my point of aim. That’s kind of my method.

Trying to control the recoil is different than to prevent.

I think grip work can really be trained well using 2 shot drills. Use an empty and a full mag. Shot one on the empty, slide lock reload, shot the next from the full. Then tac mag reload. Repeat. Doing this drills immediate reloads, and building grip simultaneously. Add in a pro timer and speed is trained, move back to 25 and we’re working accuracy.

I personally do a substantial amount of shooting at 25+, paper or steel.

Whatever grip a guy uses, trigger squeeze and sight picture must not be forgotten, I’d argue grip is considered well behind those two. Evident as I’ve certainly seen some guys blasting 1 handed that put me to shame, in speed and accuracy. Ie hip clearing a plate rack at 25..

I'll just post his video on it.



Trigger prep


Here is a cool video showing sight radius differences and how far off you are with unaligned sights.

 

[jlagman]

I’m not understanding the pulling the bottom apart portion there.

The vice grip I got, use your hands to cover as much of the pistol grip as possible. I don’t think a very tight grip is really that advantageous. I consider the strength I’m using to be similar to how I’d hold a hammer. Why would I pull when that is the motion I’m trying to control anyways? I just consider the recoils is going to happen, hold the pistol firmly and get back on target. Good follow through with the trigger finger, follow the sights, up and right for me, rengage when my sight post is slightly above my point of aim. That’s kind of my method.

Trying to control the recoil is different than to prevent.

I think grip work can really be trained well using 2 shot drills. Use an empty and a full mag. Shot one on the empty, slide lock reload, shot the next from the full. Then tac mag reload. Repeat. Doing this drills immediate reloads, and building grip simultaneously. Add in a pro timer and speed is trained or move back to 25 and we’re working accuracy.

I personally do a substantial amount of shooting at 25+, paper or steel.

Whatever grip a guy uses, trigger squeeze and sight picture must not be forgotten, I’d argue grip is considered well behind those two. Evident as I’ve certainly seen some guys blasting 1 handed that put me to shame, in speed and accuracy. Ie hip clearing a plate rack at 25..

This is what I tried to emulate for the longest time:

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Another thing that happens to cause movement is your grip can tighten as you break your shot. Basically in anticipation of recoil. You can examine the effect just holding a gun, basically just add more pressure to your hand quickly and watch the sights move. It was a habit I had and many shooters have without realizing it. That is where the one handed helped me. Learning to keep 1 consistent pressure grip throughout the shot.

Anticipation of recoil is definitely a fly in my shooting ointment.

 

[My Spot]

A lot of the indoor ranges around me now have an outright ban on steel cased ammo (not steel core). Lazy bastards.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

A lot of the indoor ranges around me now have an outright ban on steel cased ammo (not steel core). Lazy bastards.

That's pretty lazy, all they need is one of these for $40

 

[astrozician]

50 rounds of .40sw through a G35 at 15'. Lots of shots going to the left. I started on #9 and sorta shot whatever I felt like until ending on #12.
Felt like a lousy day, am I being too hard on myself?

 

[RerouteToRemain]

Felt like a lousy day, am I being too hard on myself?

Tbh if you are doing slow controlled fire at 5 yards they should all look like cluster on #6.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

50 rounds of .40sw through a G35 at 15'. Lots of shots going to the left. I started on #9 and sorta shot whatever I felt like until ending on #12.
Felt like a lousy day, am I being too hard on myself?

 

[My Spot]

I put 200 rounds through my M&P 2.0 Compact today. No issues at 5 yards but almost everything was low and to the right at 10, even closing an eye. I had these pulled up on my phone the whole time too.
Like this is what a 10 shot string would look like at 15 yards:

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I put 200 rounds through my M&P 2.0 Compact today. No issues at 5 yards but almost everything was low and to the right at 10, even closing an eye. I had these pulled up on my phone the whole time too.
Like this is what a 10 shot string would look like at 15 yards:

Did you find any benefit to the chart? Did any other shooters try the gun?

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I put 200 rounds through my M&P 2.0 Compact today. No issues at 5 yards but almost everything was low and to the right at 10, even closing an eye. I had these pulled up on my phone the whole time too.
Like this is what a 10 shot string would look like at 15 yards:

Grab your gun, ensure it's unloaded and do some dry fire. Tighten your fingers, grip, thumb, jerk the trigger, etc and watch your sights. Those types of targets are very generalized, it's very possible you could be doing any variety of thing(s) that causes low right.

 

[My Spot]

Did you find any benefit to the chart? Did any other shooters try the gun?

I guess.
No.

 

[My Spot]

Grab your gun, ensure it's unloaded and do some dry fire. Tighten your fingers, grip, thumb, jerk the trigger, etc and watch your sights. Those types of targets are very generalized, it's very possible you could be doing any variety of thing(s) that causes low right.

I guess. I'd be nice if I could find some 9mm snap caps in stock. Like I said, it wasn't a problem at 5 yards. I'm using some quality night sights too.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I guess. I'd be nice if I could find some 9mm snap caps in stock. Like I said, it wasn't a problem at 5 yards. I'm using some quality night sights too.

It probably isn't far enough to notice at 5 yards. From the video I posted above, at 5 yards with intentionally misaligned sights you are only talking like 1-2" at 5 yards compared to 6-8" at 15 yards.



You don't need snap caps to do a small amount of dry fire. You can also practice with a dead trigger.

 

[jlagman]

Did some archery with some buddies from work today and I managed to finally chronograph my bow; 252 FPS with a 455gr arrow.

Dat manlet draw length.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Did some archery with some buddies from work today and I managed to finally chronograph my bow; 252 FPS with a 455gr arrow.

Dat manlet draw length.

Did you hit the target?