War Room Lounge V129: Ignored Content Edition

[LuchaBear]

It appears they had a parade for losing to the Rangers in 94.

Parade, riot, same thing!

 

[LMP]

That's when they went 0-16. Hue Jackson had to jump into Lake Erie (he waited until June though instead of January which shouldn't count).

Doesnt look like much of a punishment to me.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

We don’t have a democracy, we have an oligarchy.

Please. American voting and political apathy is pathetic.

Petitions and protests, which I mentioned earlier, are a good way to do that. Sometimes those protests get ugly, that's to be expected if they're to have any impact. People like you seem intent on hyper-focusing on the broken windows instead of the grievances though in your case there's the added skin in the game given you're a cop.

I get that you'd prefer a quiet, compliant citizenry but guess what, American democracy is messy at times. Sometimes it requires messy protest movements to get stuff done. You think every one of MLK's marches were peaceful and orderly? No, there were agitators then as well. And think of all the people whose lives were disrupted by those marches and the bus boycotts and the restaurant sit ins. Hell the LGBTQ movement started with the Stonewall riots which was triggered by police abuse of that community and look what its amounted to over the decades. So sorry but history seems to undermine this "be quiet and vote" approach.

Of course there has to be some kind of organization and concrete goals and leftist protestors do lack that and that is a problem. But that's distinct from saying the problem is that a few windows get smashed. Looting is wrong but that's not the focus of my concern, police brutality and lack of accountability is.

lol stop putting words in my mouth please. It’s like you’re now deciding I’m some caricature and arguing against that. I’ve never said to “keep quiet.” I’ve clearly been advocating for the opposite: for political action, petitions, communication to politicians and among voters to support agendas that they want implemented and to put forth candidates who will implement those agendas. Sorry that I don’t advocate setting fires but that doesn’t mean I advocate “keeping quiet.” I’m talking about taking an active role in the political process. I’m not against marching or protesting either, and I haven’t said that I am.

 

[My Spot]

Lmao the fucking Browns. I watched most of their games being a Baker fan and it was frustrating as hell.

How do you think the Bucs will do with Brady and Gronk?

Brady/Brees is going to be the highlight of next season for me. And to see how the Pats rebound without the GOAT.

Bucs should finish second in the South and get a wild card (especially with the expanded playoffs).
I think the Pats are tanking for a QB.
Doesn't matter since the Jags will win the Super Bowl.

 

[My Spot]

Doesnt look like much of a punishment to me.

Should've done it when they had the parade in January.

 

[LMP]

Should've done it when they had the parade in January.

No doubt.

 

[Islam Imamate]

lol stop putting words in my mouth please. It’s like you’re now deciding I’m some caricature and arguing against that. I’ve never said to “keep quiet.” I’ve clearly been advocating for the opposite: for political action, petitions, communication to politicians and among voters to support agendas that they want implemented and to put forth candidates who will implement those agendas. Sorry that I don’t advocate setting fires but that doesn’t mean I advocate “keeping quiet.” I’m talking about taking an active role in the political process. I’m not against marching or protesting either, and I haven’t said that I am.

You're saying that voting is the best way to make changes, I'm disagreeing and showing that historically voting hasn't been the engine of social change. In fact if you look at the LGBTQ movement riots were actually more effective. Their single biggest win, gay marriage, wasn't achieved through a vote but rather through unelected judges. The CRA wasn't achieved through voting either, it was through a massive protest movement and a national discourse that put pressure on Congress.

Voting is probably one of the least significant things you can do to have an impact on politics but since its the easiest we like to pretend its very consequential when in reality its not. I am not against voting, its important too. But it needs to be the last part of a political program for change with protests and petitions and publicity stunts and yes, sometimes riots too. All those things can have an impact on the public discourse and help you establish the moral high ground for your position and once that happens you'll start to see candidates trying to appear on ballots representing your position. But just looking for the right name to bubble in next to is never gonna work.

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Bucs should finish second in the South and get a wild card (especially with the expanded playoffs).
I think the Pats are tanking for a QB.
Doesn't matter since the Jags will win the Super Bowl.

I don't know if Bill is willing to tank though. I think he has as much to prove as Brady does.

Browns, Saints, Patriots, Chiefs, and Bucs are going to be my most watched teams for sure. The Jags were entertaining as hell last season though.

I miss talking football lol. Right across the street is a dive bar with ten that has really good industry workers specials and it's open until 10:00AM. Was a fun spot to catch every game at once.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Lmao the fucking Browns. I watched most of their games being a Baker fan and it was frustrating as hell.

How do you think the Bucs will do with Brady and Gronk?

Brady/Brees is going to be the highlight of next season for me. And to see how the Pats rebound without the GOAT.

Pats will be fine , Stidham has potential , apparently Bellichek is all in on him .

Brady has never had better receivers , he winds the clock back once again .

I get the Vibe that Sean Payton is itching to use Hill more , wouldn't be surprised if Breezes numbers go down but the saints are ready to roll .

God I hope there's a full football season ...

 

[LMP]

Pats will be fine , Stidham has potential , apparently Bellichek is all in on him .

Brady has never had better receivers , he winds the clock once again .

I get the Vibe that Sean Payton is itching to use Hill more , wouldn't be surprised if Breezes numbers go down but the saints are ready to roll .

God I hope there's a full football season ...

Just wait until Brady is benched in favor of Gabbert.

 

[Limbo Pete]

You're saying that voting is the best way to make changes, I'm disagreeing and showing that historically voting hasn't been the engine of social change. In fact if you look at the LGBTQ movement riots were actually more effective. Their single biggest win, gay marriage, wasn't achieved through a vote but rather through unelected judges. The CRA wasn't achieved through voting either, it was through a massive protest movement and a national discourse that put pressure on Congress.

Voting is probably one of the least significant things you can do to have an impact on politics but since its the easiest we like to pretend its very consequential when in reality its not. I am not against voting, its important too. But it needs to be the last part of a political program for change with protests and petitions and publicity stunts and yes, sometimes riots too. All those things can have an impact on the public discourse and help you establish the moral high ground for your position and once that happens you'll start to see candidates trying to appear on ballots representing your position. But just looking for the right name to bubble in next to is never gonna work.

You know I love you bud but this is like super duper wrong lol

 

[My Spot]

The Jags were entertaining as hell last season though.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You know I love you bud but this is like super duper wrong lol

I'm probably exaggerating but I stand by the assertion that voting is overrated and that disruptive protest movements and in some cases even riots can be effective ways to generate social change in a society and are capable of doing so in a way that voting on its own can't.

 

[irish_thug]

@Lowmanproblems @ChoppyChoppyPeePee

The lounge officially became a shit post thread. You can stop if you want now.

I have a solution...

 

[Limbo Pete]

I'm probably exaggerating but I stand by the assertion that voting is overrated and that disruptive protest movements and in some cases even riots can be effective ways to generate social change in a society and are capable of doing so in a way that voting on its own can't.

Disruptive protest is extremely important, and can be very effective. That is absolutely true. American history has demonstrated this time and again. But our entire system of governance and law is based around voting for people to craft laws and implement them. For example, voting is how we got the Trump administration and (so far) two Supreme Court justices, which has had enormous ramifications for our entire society. That was just one general election between two people. It wasn't who had the most guns, or who burned the most cop cars; a relatively small number of ballots in a few key places brought him -and all those attached to him- into power.

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Pats will be fine , Stidham has potential , apparently Bellichek is all in on him .

Brady has never had better receivers , he winds the clock once again .

I get the Vibe that Sean Payton is itching to use Hill more , wouldn't be surprised if Breezes numbers go down but the saints are ready to roll .

God I hope there's a full football season ...

If there's not a full season these riots better pick the fuck back up. Yeah Brady was pissed off all last season. Hopefully he can get everyone on the same page, but Gronk and Brady in non Pats uniforms is going to be weird.

Hill is the future. I'm still pissed the refs fucked the Saints so bad, and fans of seeing a Brady/Brees SB

I didn't say why lmao. Nah but I like Minshew. He's fun to watch play and anytime I watched a Jags game it was probably after some sort of embarrassing Browns game lol. Damn last season feels like years ago.

 

[Gandhi]

If you have no power over who appears on the ballot then voting out one cop friendly prosecutor for another won't help. These cops and prosecutors are all subject to the same structural incentives that leads to the lack of accountability over police so unless you act for deeper systemic change voting isn't that helpful on its own. The point is to change those deeper structural incentives and you need more than voting for that. In general we idealize voting way too much and like to pretend its more powerful than it really is.

"I-I voted and performed my civic duty!"

Bro you filled out a multiple choice exam and you guessed on most of the questions, big fucking deal.

I agree more needs to be done, but there is a ton that can be done civic engagement wise before we burn it down. I wonder how many rioters stayed home because Hilary.

From a human nature POV I sympathize because a rigged system encourages apathy which encourages a rigged system until the kid blows off. I doubt have as much sympathy for most of the intellectual leaders of the riot crowed though, they have their own agenda and/or real civic work is not sexy enough for them.

 

[Gandhi]

Disruptive protest is extremely important, and can be very effective. That is absolutely true. American history has demonstrated this time and again. But our entire system of governance and law is based around voting for people to craft laws and implement them. For example, voting is how we got the Trump administration and (so far) two Supreme Court justices, which has had enormous ramifications for our entire society. That was just one general election between two people. It wasn't who had the most guns, or who burned the most cop cars; a relatively small number of ballots in a few key places brought him -and all those attached to him- into power.

I just tried to say the same thing, you sir get 1/50th of my like quota

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Hey @Ruprecht did this make big news over there?

 

[Higus]

Disruptive protest is extremely important, and can be very effective. That is absolutely true. American history has demonstrated this time and again. But our entire system of governance and law is based around voting for people to craft laws and implement them. For example, voting is how we got the Trump administration and (so far) two Supreme Court justices, which has had enormous ramifications for our entire society. That was just one general election between two people. It wasn't who had the most guns, or who burned the most cop cars; a relatively small number of ballots in a few key places brought him -and all those attached to him- into power.

What should one do if they feel the institution of voting is under attack, say by voter suppression tactics, or inherently biased, such as the Electoral college?