Usman vs gsp prime 4 prime

[KillaZs]

Not sure if we've seen final product Usman yet. I'll come back to this thread when he's retired

Life is so short. If we postpone threads like that haha.

 

[Superzorro]

That’s why I made a mention of it. I’m sure that would bother him in middle of the fight. Especially if he couldn’t immediately pop back up.

Impressive stat for sure. I still think a prime GSP would take him down multiple times if it was apart of his gameplan.

And he's certainly been tested. So if Prime GSP's gameplan revolves around taking someone down who has never been taken down before in the most wrestle-heavy division in the sport, I don't think it would be very wise. And we shouldn't count it as a certainty, since GSP is 70% on his takedown accuracy (while impressive, it's not as impressive as never being taken down imo).

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Masvidal is not equal to Jay Hieron. That is such a huge reach

Jorge is a bit behind but its not that much of a reach.
Overall 35-14 Jorge is a .714 win rate.
Best win Darren Till. Worst Loss Raphael Assuncao. Yes that's right a BW!
Jay Heiron Overall is 23-7 .766 win rate.
Best win Jake Ellenberger. Worst Loss Brad Blackburn.

Jorge has lost to anyone who he fought that was elite. Beating Nate Diaz and getting two title shots from it doesn't mean he is elite. Lets see if he can baptize Usman and maybe defend it against anyone not named McGregor or Diaz.

I bet he gets foot stomped for another 5 rounds.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Hieron said he’d had 10 months total boxing training in his life at the time of the GSP fight.

I think you greatly over estimate how evolved things were at that point in time.

Yet he has a better record then Jorge.

 

[TheMessiah]

Jorge is a bit behind but its not that much of a reach.
Overall 35-14 Jorge is a .714 win rate.
Best win Darren Till. Worst Loss Raphael Assuncao. Yes that's right a BW!
Jay Heiron Overall is 23-7 .766 win rate.
Best win Jake Ellenberger. Worst Loss Brad Blackburn.

Jorge has lost to anyone who he fought that was elite. Beating Nate Diaz and getting two title shots from it doesn't mean he is elite. Lets see if he can baptize Usman and maybe defend it against anyone not named McGregor or Diaz.

I bet he gets foot stomped for another 5 rounds.

Hieron was decent but a completely different fighter in the UFC with stricter drug testing. I thought he beat Askren too

 

[Barteh]

It would look like Usman vs. Colby where both couldn't get each other down. Except GSP's striking is way better than Colby's so it'd probably look like GSP vs. Koscheck.

 

[Iron Nick]

The recency bias is very strong here with quite a few posters, eh?

Usman is an amazing fighter and who knows what he's going to accomplish in the future, but to suggest that Usman is a superior version of GSP is wrong.

"Usman has 100% takedown defense, GSP has been taken down!"
There has literally been only a single takedown attempt (!) from an elite wrestler against Usman, which came from Woodley and has been defended.
GSP on the other hand has dealt with guys like Hughes, Koscheck, Hendricks, competing against some of those either with not much experience (Hughes) or in the twilight of his career (Hendricks).

"Usman is better everywhere"
Where do i start with that one...
Let's look at a few stats (UFC) alright?
... and let's keep in mind, that GSP's stats are like they are after a long career and after having fought elite competition for a long time, but i'll come back to that further below.

Significant strikes landed per minute:
Usman: 4.66
St-Pierre: 3.78
-> advantage Usman

Significant strikes absorbed per minute:
Usman: 2.33
St-Pierre: 1.40 (4th best in welterweight history)
-> advantage GSP

Significant strike differential:
Usman: 2.33 (2nd best in welterweight history)
St-Pierre: 2.38 (best in welterweight history)
-> advantage GSP

Ratio of landed to absorbed significant strikes
Usman: 2.0
St-Pierre: 2.7
-> advantage GSP

Significant strike accuracy
Usman: 54%
St-Pierre: 53%
-> advantage Usman

Significant strike defense
Usman: 58%
St-Pierre: 73% (best in welterweight history and 3rd best of all time across all divisions)
-> advantage GSP

Takedown average per 15 min.
Usman: 3.22
St-Pierre: 4.16
-> advantage GSP

Takedown accuracy
Usman: 47%
St-Pierre: 74% (best in welterweight history, 4th best across all divisions of all time)
-> advantage GSP

Takedown defense
Usman: 100%
St-Pierre: 85.2%
-> advantage Usman

Submissions attempted per 15 min.
Usman: 0.1
St-Pierre: 1.1
-> advantage GSP

Total fight time (welterweight)
Usman: 3:38:51
St-Pierre: 5:28:12

Submission wins / in brackets: submission wins in the UFC:
Usman: 1 (0)
St-Pierre: 6 (3)
-> advantage GSP

Totals:
Georges St-Pierre: 8
Kamaru Usman: 3

Things to keep in mind:
GSP has these stats after 5 1/2 hours of fight time inside the UFC, while having fought guys like Hendricks, Bisping (at 185) Hughes x2, Shields, Fitch, Koscheck x2, Penn x2.
Meanwhile, Usman has these stats after around 3 1/2 hours inside the UFC, having faced the likes of Covington, Woodley and Burns (i don't list Masvidal here, because i didn't include Condit in GSP's list, despite being a better fighter than Masvidal).
Out of these three fighters, there has been 0 takedown attempts from Covington, 1 from Woodley and 3 from Gilbert Burns.

Verdict:​

While Kamaru Usman has a higher takedown defense percentage, more output and a marginally (1%) higher significant striking accuracy, St-Pierre trumps him in all 8 other stats, especially in terms of striking defense, where St-Pierre is amongst the most prolific fighters in UFC history.
This is even more impressive considering that:
a) St-Pierre's stats are those of a finished career, whereas Kamaru Usman only fairly recently has started to fight elite opposition and
b) St-Pierre has faced top competition (fighting champion Matt Hughes) after 7 pro fights, whereas Kamaru Usman didn't face a champion until having had twice the amount of pro fights under his belt.
Therefore, Georges St-Pierre remains the gold standard and the best welterweight of all time.

If a prime St-Pierre was to face a prime Usman, then i see St-Pierre winning the fight due to the wrestling of each other cancelling out (though i could definitely see St-Pierre landing reactive takedowns on Usman) and by being the better striker; exploiting Usman's porous striking defense.

 

[Iron Nick]

And he's certainly been tested. So if Prime GSP's gameplan revolves around taking someone down who has never been taken down before in the most wrestle-heavy division in the sport, I don't think it would be very wise. And we shouldn't count it as a certainty, since GSP is 70% on his takedown accuracy (while impressive, it's not as impressive as never being taken down imo).

Usman has literally only had to defend a single takedown from an elite MMA wrestler (1 attempt from Woodley) in his entire career and that after 15 fights of experience.
At this point, GSP had fought Hughes (twice), BJ Penn and Sean Sherk, with Hughes having been his 8th pro fight. Hughes is just as good, if not a better wrestler than Woodley and i don't think Usman would've dealt as well with Woodley had he faced him with only 7 fights of experience under his belt.

 

[Kertol]

If you replaced “lit up” with “arguably outpointed” then I might agree with you.

I was talking more about in certain exchanges overall I think Usman slightly bested them when they fought. But those two guys don’t have such high level striking.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

And he's certainly been tested. So if Prime GSP's gameplan revolves around taking someone down who has never been taken down before in the most wrestle-heavy division in the sport, I don't think it would be very wise. And we shouldn't count it as a certainty, since GSP is 70% on his takedown accuracy (while impressive, it's not as impressive as never being taken down imo).

Usman never tried to take Colby down and vice versa. GSP is a vastly superior MMA wrestler than Colby. So if Usman is forced to stand with GSP he loses badly. Colby has no power whatsoever and terrible striking yet he was landing on Usman constantly. GSP breaks his face a'la Koscheck IMO.

Usman is the GOHT (Greatest of His Time)
GSP is the GOAT.

 

[Dionysian]

This is a nearly impossible fight for Usman to win. GSP is better everywhere

this

Not sure if we've seen final product Usman yet. I'll come back to this thread when he's retired

but at the same time, this as well

IMHO. Excited to see where Kamaru goes from here.

 

[zr1vette]

GSP spanks him. It would primarily be a striking match up as both guys wrestling would likely cancel out. GSP has a good striking advantage here, better in every way. GSP would win a decision.

As soon as GSP starts to establish his jab and Usman starts thinking about it he gets dumped on his ass just to give him something else to worry about.

 

[Celeron]

For all the people who confidently state GSP would dominate Usman, that would also mean you believe Hendricks beat Usman as well which is pretty damn dumb.

I’m a GSP fan but it seems like of his fans are kind of delusional. I’m not saying Usman wound beat him, but to so say GSP would dominate is quite an exaggeration. Especially when he was given good fights by BJ, Shields and Hendricks and beaten by Hughes, but yea, Usman can’t do shit, whatever.

 

[zr1vette]

What round would GSP break marty’s orbital?

I say round 2

Usman is a very good fighter. If Georges came up at the same time as Usman he would be even better than he was in his prime. Georges came up at a time when people skills were not as good as today's fighters skills. People's skills got better because of Georges. Even as MMA evolved Georges evolved with it. This was another thing that made him great. Could Usman beat Georges? Who knows? I think the only real advantage Usman would have is size and strength. Georges probably fights as a lightweight in today's UFC.

 

[zr1vette]

For all the people so confidently stating GSP would dominate that would also mean you also believe Hendricks wound beat Usman as well.

Hendricks juiced up would be a nightmare for pressure fighters like Usman. The question was about prime GSP and not the GSP that fought Hendricks.

 

[Celeron]

Hendricks juiced up would be a nightmare for pressure fighters like Usman. The question was about prime GSP and not the GSP that fought Hendricks.

Yup, because GSP just happened to be past his prime right after dominating Shields, Condit and Diaz, how convenient.

Hendricks was good and could possibly give Usman a fight, but that still doesn’t explain how plenty of people on this post believe GSP would jusl dominate Usman like he’s a scrub. So again, BJ, Shields and Hendricks could could give GSP a fight but Usman can’t. Makes no FN sense.

 

[mraa1]

A very close decision win for GSP. People saying 50-45 GSP are talking out of their asses. GSP struggled heavily to take down BJ, albeit prime BJ was incredible, but Usman is much bigger than BJ and weight matters a lot in wrestling.

GSP undoubtedly has the striking advantage but Usman hits a little harder and has an equal reach to Georges. His striking is improving every outing he has. Trains with an amazing coach in Trevor Whitman as a bonus.

nah I don't think he could keep him down, but a prime GSP could absolutely take him down. he's too good at mixing his double legs with his striking and timing them to catch guys off guard and he had the explosiveness and strength to drive through and finish them.

 

[JKS]

As soon as GSP starts to establish his jab and Usman starts thinking about it he gets dumped on his ass just to give him something else to worry about.

And that's just how it would go. Rinse and repeat.

 

[the white beast]

Common bro.. you need to go to mw to find guys that can beat gsp

 

[dildos]

gsp handles usman easily.