Evidence of Jones' Guilt

[Captain Herb]

What makes you think they don't? It would be pretty stupid to not test for the same things as a matter of standard course. That would give every passed test doubt and skepticism and every actionable test a basis for appeal for everyone not being held to the same standard.

I don't know if they do or not but it seems, as a practical matter, unlikely that they would test for hundreds--if not thousands of prohibited compounds on every sample for every athlete.

 

[TrueFightFan]

They show up almost right away. The parent and the metabolites.

Again, they had an arbitration on the clomiphene and letrozol. And again, they don’t “mask” tbol……

As for why he keeps testing for m3 metabolites………um……haven’t we been over this? It can stay in the system for a long time? I’m not saying he didn’t ingest tbol at some point but he’s repeatedly testing for it because it lingers in the body. Again, he’s not the only one…….

This is exactly my point...he could keep ingesting, masking and if he doesn't get tagged with anything but M3's, you know what the excuse will be. Eventually you DO have to say "fuck 'em" because he is a cheat.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Again, that’s just not true. As soon as they start showing up, they will show up with other markers, AND they will show up in amounts greater than the threshold.

Are you sure that Tbol can't be masked?

 

[TrueFightFan]

But, whether actually via contaminated supplement or intentional cheating, that's why he got suspended. Because they showed up, which means he had it in his system, at some point.

However, you can't say "fuck 'em" if it shows up and "pulses" again, and it's not from a new or more recent use. He's already been punished for using it under that umbrella. We don't punish people continuously for the same offense.

That's why it matters if he's been in testing on a regular, and random basis, and there hasn't been any detection of the other metabolites when they would have shown up. He very well could have cheated again, but the "pulsing" isn't evidence of it, absent anything showing up in other tests. Fighters are supposed to get punished based on evidence, not whether people dislike them or not.

Forget his likeability, he cheated so it was his decision that may have "screwed him" long term. Let me ask, if M3's are showing up, could they still be helping? You don't know so we can't say for sure. Obviously, the easiest thing is to never cheat in the first place.

 

[kflo]

@kflo

The latest samples come from Jones’ enrollment with VADA, which was ordered by the CSAC after a Dec. 9 drug test revealed trace amounts of the M3 metabolite. As MMAjunkie previously reported, Jones is subject to VADA testing for three to six months at a cost of $22,000 to the CSAC.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...al-steroid-metabolite-system-test/2662739002/

Apologies will be accepted at any time

I think you might be turning into a psycho.

https://es.pn/2FuvXME

Here jones was tested “nearly 30 times” through the end of June. That means he was tested at least 13 more times over the final 6 months. So it was more than once a week for the first 6 months and at least every 2 weeks the final 6 months. Yet you said he’d need to be “tested every 1 to 2 weeks to fully eliminate the possibility that he was still doping. If that ever happened, it was only for a short period of time.” You were proven to be wrong and proven that he did indeed meet your retarded standard. Yet here you are asking for an apology…..

You accept literally nothing even after you’re proved wrong over and over. What will be your new bar?

 

[kflo]

@kflo

Also here are the USADA test counts for the relevant months in 2017 and 2018

1st positive test for Tbol: July 28, 2017

2017 Q3 5 tests
2017 Q4 1 test
2018 Q1 0 tests
2018 Q2 0 tests
2018 Q3 5 tests

First positive "pulsing test": August, 2018

What this tells us is that besides his first positive Tbol test, he was tested another 5 times before his string of "pulsing" failures starting in Aug, 2018. We really need to know what the results of all the 2017 Q3 tests were, and it's criminal negligence that he wasn't tested for at least 6 months following that. WTF?

Again, youre losing your mind. He passed all his tests in 2017 except the one right before DC on the 28th of august. Again, if you were educated on the topic you’d know this. But you don’t. Yet you continually throw shit on the wall.

 

[kflo]

Are you sure that Tbol can't be masked?

Again, this is why rodchenkov switched the Russian cocktail from tbol to tren. He knew he couldn’t.

 

[kflo]

This is exactly my point...he could keep ingesting, masking and if he doesn't get tagged with anything but M3's, you know what the excuse will be. Eventually you DO have to say "fuck 'em" because he is a cheat.

Again, he can’t. Not sure why you keep repeating this. And who would construct a doping protocol that ensures they keep flagging for metabolites, particularly before there was a threshold limit? It just makes no sense. Why keep presenting it as likely?

 

[kflo]

Forget his likeability, he cheated so it was his decision that may have "screwed him" long term. Let me ask, if M3's are showing up, could they still be helping? You don't know so we can't say for sure. Obviously, the easiest thing is to never cheat in the first place.

It doesn’t help. They know this. For sure.

That said, you’re ok TFF…..

 

[acannxr]

What makes you think they don't? It would be pretty stupid to not test for the same things as a matter of standard course. That would give every passed test doubt and skepticism and every actionable test a basis for appeal for everyone not being held to the same standard.

If USADA tested for every prohibited substance they wouldn't have had to re-test Dillashaw's old samples for EPO.

 

[Adamant]

He's still the best fighter in UFC

 

[Captain Herb]

Again, youre losing your mind. He passed all his tests in 2017 except the one right before DC on the 28th of august. Again, if you were educated on the topic you’d know this. But you don’t. Yet you continually throw shit on the wall.

28th of July, Mr. Educated. So he tested positive for Turinabol on the 28th of July, 2017 and then tested negative 5 consecutive times for the rest of the year... and then tested positive AGAIN a year later? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and neither do you. That's not even what they said pulsing was, that's not alternating negative and positive tests. That's clearly just a case of reingestion. So he tests positive once, then tests negative for a full year and THEN starts testing positive regularly? What a crock of shit, only a retard would believe that, no offense.

 

[kflo]

28th of July, Mr. Educated. So he tested positive for Turinabol on the 28th of July, 2017 and then tested negative 5 consecutive times for the rest of the year... and then tested positive AGAIN a year later? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and neither do you. That's not even what they said pulsing was, that's not alternating negative and positive tests. That's clearly just a case of reingestion. So he tests positive once, then tests negative for a full year and THEN starts testing positive regularly? What a crock of shit, only a retard would believe that, no offense.

You are just wrong all the time. Again, read his fuckin arbitration agreement. It tells you what you need to know, but you willfully ignore it. He had 3 urine tests in q3 2017, and 1 in q4. He was negative on the 6th and the 7th, positive on the 28th. Then negative on 10/11/2017.

You don’t understand the facts yet you repeatedly get them wrong and act indignant. Learn. Educate yourself. You’ll feel better.

And no, you don’t know what pulsing is. Dehydration changes the gravity of the sample and makes it more likely to make the long term metabolite detectable. Pulsing is NOT just alternating between positive and negative.

Again, your instinct is to just try to latch on to anything that supports the position you took years ago. It’s why you get things wrong in just about every post.

 

[kflo]

If USADA tested for every prohibited substance they wouldn't have had to re-test Dillashaw's old samples for EPO.

No one said they test for everything every time of course. Some substances need special tests. Like epo.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Again, youre losing your mind. He passed all his tests in 2017 except the one right before DC on the 28th of august. Again, if you were educated on the topic you’d know this. But you don’t. Yet you continually throw shit on the wall.

Did he just decide to cheat right before the 28th of August? Maybe he has been masking the whole time and just fucked up then...

 

[TrueFightFan]

Again, this is why rodchenkov switched the Russian cocktail from tbol to tren. He knew he couldn’t.

I'm asking you, can you mask Tbol?

 

[UsernameLOL]

To those who are contending that lack of short term metabolites found in urine are indicative of non re-ingestion I'd like to direct you to this excerpt from this anti-doping conference document

https://www.dshs-koeln.de/fileadmin.../PDF/Long-term_Vortrag_Orlando_mit_Folien.pdf (page 4/38)

In 2012 they had one finding of DHCMT (not counting retests)

In 2013 when the test for long term metabolites was implemented they had 61

That should speak volumes about how much harder it is to inherently detect short term metabolites.

Rodchenkov warned that retests for 2008 and 2012 would spell disaster and that is exactly what happened.


Edit: I'd imagine these statistics pertain to a certain subset because they don't match up with executive summaries I've found. I'll elaborate on the executive summaries I've found

 

[Captain Herb]

You are just wrong all the time. Again, read his fuckin arbitration agreement. It tells you what you need to know, but you willfully ignore it. He had 3 urine tests in q3 2017, and 1 in q4. He was negative on the 6th and the 7th, positive on the 28th. Then negative on 10/11/2017.

You don’t understand the facts yet you repeatedly get them wrong and act indignant. Learn. Educate yourself. You’ll feel better.

And no, you don’t know what pulsing is. Dehydration changes the gravity of the sample and makes it more likely to make the long term metabolite detectable. Pulsing is NOT just alternating between positive and negative.

Again, your instinct is to just try to latch on to anything that supports the position you took years ago. It’s why you get things wrong in just about every post.

That's exactly what I was saying dummy. He tested positive once on the 28 of July, 2017 and then did not test positive again for a YEAR before a STRING of failures that were then attributed to the one test a year before? So he wasn't even pulsing at all for a year before he started pulsing regularly for subsequent years? Yeah right lol. UFC/USADA Is so shady and corrupt. Props to you for continually defending them. I guess.

BTW, Jones wasn't cutting weight when he started his epic run of test failures

 

[Captain Herb]

I think you might be turning into a psycho.

https://es.pn/2FuvXME

Here jones was tested “nearly 30 times” through the end of June. That means he was tested at least 13 more times over the final 6 months. So it was more than once a week for the first 6 months and at least every 2 weeks the final 6 months. Yet you said he’d need to be “tested every 1 to 2 weeks to fully eliminate the possibility that he was still doping. If that ever happened, it was only for a short period of time.” You were proven to be wrong and proven that he did indeed meet your retarded standard. Yet here you are asking for an apology…..

You accept literally nothing even after you’re proved wrong over and over. What will be your new bar?

Dude, what is wrong with you? I thought you understood that multiple tests can be given on a single day. Unless you know the dates of the tests, the total number is meaningless. You're just taking the total number and dividing it by 12 like a 5th grader. I also provided you with an article that definitively states that VADA was only contracted for THREE to SIX (3 to 6) MONTHS. This is exactly what I was recalling in the previous post when I said the extra testing was not for the full year, but only a matter of a few months.

 

[kflo]

That's exactly what I was saying dummy. He tested positive once on the 28 of July, 2017 and then did not test positive again for a YEAR before a STRING of failures that were then attributed to the one test a year before? So he wasn't even pulsing at all for a year before he started pulsing regularly for subsequent years? Yeah right lol. UFC/USADA Is so shady and corrupt. Props to you for continually defending them. I guess.

BTW, Jones wasn't cutting weight when he started his epic run of test failures

He tested positive on July 28. He tested negative on oct 11. He tested positive in aug and sept 2018, negative in 4 tests between sept and nov and positive on dec 9th and his in competition test on the 28th. He had negatives and positives in feb 2019 for smith. It’s fuckin amazing that you think you are qualified to evaluate those results and conclude that he was doping within that time frame. It’s amazing.

Again, it’s not just usada genius. It was the wada lab. It was VADA. It was nsac, csac. They all concluded the same. But herb the scientist knows more……

And I never said he had to be cutting weight to flag. I said dehydration increases the likelihood of flagging. He was of course cutting weight for DC, Gus and Smith in July 2017, dec 2018 and feb 2019…….

And waaaaa, you don’t agree with their expert positions so they must be corrupt.