Evidence of Jones' Guilt

there was a big spike in 2013 with the introduction of testing for a bunch of new metabolites associated with dhcmt substances. you can't conclude from that fact that the ONLY metabolite detectable in the 2013 samples was m3. do you get it now?

Well according to this paper

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2018/ob/c8ob00122g#cit2

PQx3txn.jpg


The main culprit is indeed m3

I checked the cited reference and only 3 of the 6 long term metabolites are tested for in those statistics. Namely m1, m3, and m4. Despite checking for m1 and m4, m3 was responsible for the majority if not all of the new findings. Only 1 sample tested positive in 2013 for short term metabolites known prior.
 
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Again, he can’t. Not sure why you keep repeating this. And who would construct a doping protocol that ensures they keep flagging for metabolites, particularly before there was a threshold limit? It just makes no sense. Why keep presenting it as likely?
It is made "likely" now. When he could think of no othet excuse, they came up with "pulsing".
 
He tested positive on July 28. He tested negative on oct 11. He tested positive in aug and sept 2018, negative in 4 tests between sept and nov and positive on dec 9th and his in competition test on the 28th. He had negatives and positives in feb 2019 for smith. It’s fuckin amazing that you think you are qualified to evaluate those results and conclude that he was doping within that time frame. It’s amazing.

Again, it’s not just usada genius. It was the wada lab. It was VADA. It was nsac, csac. They all concluded the same. But herb the scientist knows more……

And I never said he had to be cutting weight to flag. I said dehydration increases the likelihood of flagging. He was of course cutting weight for DC, Gus and Smith in July 2017, dec 2018 and feb 2019…….

And waaaaa, you don’t agree with their expert positions so they must be corrupt.
So he tested positive for Turinabol once, tested negative for a whole year and only then started "pulsing" like crazy. I'm sure you and USADA have a theory why M3 would take a year off before showing up regularly. And the fact that USADA chose the most unlikely and improbable scenario to save Jon Jones from a lifetime ban says it all: They are the UFC's bitch. If they lose the UFC contract, they lose over 60% of their business. (That's according to you)
 
It’s not typical at all for multiple tests to be done on the same day. Only when they do blood and urine on the same day which is very rare.

It’s amazing that you can know that he was tested 42 times, know he was tested almost 30 times in the first half and over a dozen in the second, but for you, you don’t have enough information so you’ll continue to act as if it is meaningless and he obviously had large windows of time to do cycles of steroids and avoid detection.

And lol at 6 months being a “few”. he was tested 25 times in 2020 as well just by usada. But yeah, that’s not “extra” testing for old herb. But you don’t know the exact dates……

You know nothing about how this works but seem to want to pretend you do just to keep up your indignation.
Oh, I do know how it works kflo. Whoever controls the purse has the power in this world. UFC wasn't about to lose their LHW GOAT/champ to a lifetime ban and they let USADA know that.
 
Well according to this paper

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2018/ob/c8ob00122g#cit2

PQx3txn.jpg


The main culprit is indeed m3

I checked the cited reference and only 3 of the 6 long term metabolites are tested for in those statistics. Namely m1, m3, and m4. Despite checking for m1 and m4, m3 was responsible for the majority if not all of the new findings. Only 1 sample tested positive in 2013 for short term metabolites known prior.
Nowhere does that say they tested for other rodchenkov metabolites and didn’t detect them in any of the 87 positives.

The cited reference has nothing to do with the 87 positives in 2013. I’m not following what you mean.
 
Oh, I do know how it works kflo. Whoever controls the purse has the power in this world. UFC wasn't about to lose their LHW GOAT/champ to a lifetime ban and they let USADA know that.
Lol. Yes, we come back to the conspiracy theory…..I don’t like it so it must be rigged!!!
 
Nowhere does that say they tested for other rodchenkov metabolites and didn’t detect them in any of the 87 positives.

The cited reference has nothing to do with the 87 positives in 2013. I’m not following what you mean.


It literally says "The responsible metabolite m3".

"The" being singular....see the superscript "2"? That is the reference I'm referring to.
 
Of course it does. There used to be no tests for EPO (why so many in cycling were using it). Now it's an expensive and cumbersome process to test of it, which would indicate that the testing methods haven't been improved and refined enough, so they have to be selective about that.

And when they have an improved test that isn't more expensive and cumbersome, aka "IMPROVED TECHNOLOGY," then it will a standard, regular test along with all the others.

And, still, this has nothing to do with any claims that Jones not popping for Turinabol is because USADA arbitrarily decides what to test for and not. The "random" for random testing is about the scheduling of when and who gets tested, not what they test for.
I seem to remember @dim_ saying at one point that they did not test for everything every time and that the biological passport allowed them to personalize tests for individual athletes
 
Lol. Yes, we come back to the conspiracy theory…..I don’t like it so it must be rigged!!!
The formulation of Pulsing Theory by UFC/USADA in order to save Jon Jones' career is a much greater and much more likely conspiracy theory imo
 
So he tested positive for Turinabol once, tested negative for a whole year and only then started "pulsing" like crazy. I'm sure you and USADA have a theory why M3 would take a year off before showing up regularly. And the fact that USADA chose the most unlikely and improbable scenario to save Jon Jones from a lifetime ban says it all: They are the UFC's bitch. If they lose the UFC contract, they lose over 60% of their business. (That's according to you)
Is that what happened? When he first tested positive for Turinabol it was under exactly the same circumstances, with exactly the same results as the subsequent failure. The first test failure was as much a "pulse" as the subsequent one. The main difference between the two is that for the first one, Jones hand never previously been punished for ever having used Turinabol.

Why would it only show up under those circumstances? What are those circumstances?

No detection of the actual substance. During regular preceding testing, no detection of primary or secondary metabolites that do eventually clear the system, but that would indicate ongoing PED use during that timeframe. Post fight testing did not indicate anything abnormal. Levels of the tertiary metabolite were only detected at levels much, much lower than ever even possible before.

It shows up because there's enough of a concentration of the substance to be detected. What is a common factor of post-weigh-in pre-fight urine tests vs other tests, before and after?

The fighter is dehydrated. How is concentration of the substance measured? weight of the substance per unit of volume. By definition, the concentration of ANYTHING, except for water, itself, is going to be higher in a urine sample of a dehydrated person.

It's not all that complicated. A substance exists in levels that aren't concentrated enough to be detectable. After dehydrating, it shows up in barely detectable levels, due to the substance not being diluted in as much water as with the other samples.

These are ordinary and very understandable, uncomplicated concepts, that do not require any kind of conspiracy theory. Also, this wasn't invented for Jon Jones. They had seen it happen in enough other cases and in other sports between suspension and subsequent result that they no longer dismissed it out of hand, and the growing body of evidence led them to conclude that they couldn't definitely say it was due to subsequent PED use. That's also how science works. You have your working theory based on the best explanation for the data available. When better and more data comes in, you update it because the previous explanation is not longer the best based on currently available data.
 
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So he tested positive for Turinabol once, tested negative for a whole year and only then started "pulsing" like crazy. I'm sure you and USADA have a theory why M3 would take a year off before showing up regularly. And the fact that USADA chose the most unlikely and improbable scenario to save Jon Jones from a lifetime ban says it all: They are the UFC's bitch. If they lose the UFC contract, they lose over 60% of their business. (That's according to you)
Again, you are lying. I never said it was 60%. It’s much less. And why would they lose the ufc contract? And who would that affect? How? Again, you have no idea what you’re talking about. It doesn’t stop you.

Again, tell me all the tests he passed between July 2018 and aug 2019…..Lol at the most unlikely and improbable…. Again, you just make shit up over and over again.
 
It literally says "The responsible metabolite m3".

"The" being singular....see the superscript "2"? That is the reference I'm referring to.
Yes, they all had m3. That doesn’t mean they tested negative for the other metabolites in every case.
 
The formulation of Pulsing Theory by UFC/USADA in order to save Jon Jones' career is a much greater and much more likely conspiracy theory imo
Because you want it to be true…..

Yes, usada is so invested in jon jones that their own national and international credibility was seen is expendable for one guy…….so that……um……..really not that much in it for usada leaders personally……
 
I seem to remember @dim_ saying at one point that they did not test for everything every time and that the biological passport allowed them to personalize tests for individual athletes
Personalizing some specific tests or not based on the same standard criteria as applied to each and every person, the "personalization" being due to differences in the actual PEOPLE, not the standards being applied.

If you get popped for a DUI, and get a misdemeanor fine and have to take some classes, and I get popped for a DUI and get 3 years in jail, you might say "hey, that's arbitrary and different, they're getting different punishments for the same offense" - but if it's my third offense, or someone was injured, then you can say the sentence was "personalized' for the circumstances that happened, while it is still being the same, uniform, identical standard being applied.
 
Wait, are people actually still arguing whether Jon is a PED cheat or not?
No. Did you bother reading any of the back and forth?

It's mostly talking about whether Jones not being punished for the subsequent pulsing is legitimate application of the drug testing program, or if it's all a crooked farce.
 
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